Insane
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Cookiely
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Insane
A six year old was almost abducted in broad daylight from a restaurant today. The grandparents were taking the brother and sister out for a celebration. They were in line to get food and the six year old was in line to play in the game room. The man had been released from jail the day before and told a stranger he was going to take the girl. He picked her up and proceeded to leave the restaurant. At the door the girl was finally able to fight her way out of his arms and ran back inside. What is going on? He had previously been charged with domestic battery. DO WE HAVE TO CHAIN CHILDREN TO OUR SIDES?
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george_r_1961
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Miss Mary
I really wish I could find a topic I started over a year ago. In 1994 my family and I vacationed in Canada. We started our trip in Buffalo, NY stopping at Niagara Falls first. My husband went as a child with his family and wanted to go on the Maid of the Mist again. Our 2 daughters, 4 and 7 then, had so much fun. After leaving the boat and weaving our way thru the 3 lines up to the elevators that take you back up to street level, 2 men began talking to us. Very intently. I had our oldest, then at least 70 pounds. My husband had our 4 year old, who wanted to be carried everywhere still. We had told her on this vacation - no strollers, no being carried. She had to walk now. If anyone remembers their kids whining b/c they're so tired of walking, you know what we were going thru back then. Yes, she's the baby of the family too. Anyway, this encounter took about 5 minutes, as the 3 lines kept inching their way forward. These two men were a father a son. Son was in his late teens I estimated. They asked where we were from, began talking to our daughters. They also had oriental descent . They told us they were from San Francisco. At one point we should have lost them, but they pushed their way ahead of others to get next to us again. The teenage son tried picking Laura up, saying she was so cute. Blond hair, blue eyes, could have modeled I guess back then but she was very shy. Okay, long story short, I had huge red flags going up in my head, a tight-tight grip on my oldest daughter. My husband picked Laura up at one point but when we got up to the elevators, we thought we lost them. They pushed their way into our elevator. My husband pushed us back into a corner and I ordered him to pick our youngest up. I am not bossy but this time, I demanded he do that. We really had the wrong child, here I was with my oldest, she was very tall for her age. But I would have picked her up in a heartbeat if I had to. When the elevator doors opened, they gestured us into the gift shop. Again, if any here have kids, you know how they love gift shops. Jim grabbed Nina and I and pushed us onto the sidewalk. That fast, we ditched them and suddenly were with other families, hundreds of people. We walked so fast to get back to our car but I will never, ever forget what my husband said to me - Mary, those men were child mollesters. I swear I was a walking pool of jelly at that point but we got to the car, got the kids inside and locked all the doors. This was day 2 of our 10 day trip. I wanted to go home, that minute. But we pushed on, going into Canada. After a few days we wished we had stopped at the police station. At the time all I wanted to do was get as far away from those men as possible. With so many kidnappings now, I know I'd find a police officer ASAP and give a full blown description. We did, over the phone, when we got back home. No abductions had been reported, thank GOD! Later so many people told us Niagara Falls is the perfect place to kidnap children, b/c of the border into Canada.
All I know is that was the MOST frightened I've ever been. The boldness these men displayed is shocking, to this day. If this ever happened to me again, I'd probably shout out Fire, Help, something. I know we were probably surrounded with other families that would have stepped in. And at the time it was going on, I thought for sure ~I~ was imagining their intentions, being an overly protective mother. My husband is the rational, very calm parent in this family but when he voiced my worst fears, I nearly lost it.
If we are ever a large tourist attraction and I see a lost child, I immediately tell an employee. That is what they're looking for - a kid confused or lost. Or to distract the parents.
If I can find that old topic I'll post the link here. But I think it got lost somehow.
Mary
All I know is that was the MOST frightened I've ever been. The boldness these men displayed is shocking, to this day. If this ever happened to me again, I'd probably shout out Fire, Help, something. I know we were probably surrounded with other families that would have stepped in. And at the time it was going on, I thought for sure ~I~ was imagining their intentions, being an overly protective mother. My husband is the rational, very calm parent in this family but when he voiced my worst fears, I nearly lost it.
If we are ever a large tourist attraction and I see a lost child, I immediately tell an employee. That is what they're looking for - a kid confused or lost. Or to distract the parents.
If I can find that old topic I'll post the link here. But I think it got lost somehow.
Mary
Last edited by Miss Mary on Wed May 04, 2005 2:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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GalvestonDuck
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Mary, thank you for sharing that truly chilling experience. How fortunate there was not a horrible ending.
James, you bring up a very important point: How is it that people even think about committing such actions?
I truly believe that human beings are created "good" rather than "bad," sinful, or weak. I understand that experiences can cause that inborn goodness to be darkened; but I find it difficult to grasp that so very many humans allow themselves to be overwhelmed by experiences so much that they feel justified in distorting the definitions of "human being" and "human behavior" through sick, hateful, hurtful activities. Why has having physical, emotional, and mental disease become a reason to inflict pain and suffering on other persons? Social predators continue because they have no consciences. Since a lack of conscience is connected not only to experiences but also to certain organic mental illnesses, a conscience is both learned and innate. We develop our consciences through our interactions and our inner actions.
How can humanity achieve a lower percentage of people lacking consciences? That's what the think tanks could be spending more time and money figuring out. More importantly, that's what parents should be devoting most of their lives with their children on.
OK, I realize how very, very middle-aged this whole diatribe sounds. And actually, I count myself as a liberal, spiritual-rather-than-organized-religion type, sometimes even accused of being a pointy-headed intellectual.... But the older I am fortunate enough to become, the more concerned I am about the urgent importance of "conscience" as a positive, not punitive, concept.
James, you bring up a very important point: How is it that people even think about committing such actions?
I truly believe that human beings are created "good" rather than "bad," sinful, or weak. I understand that experiences can cause that inborn goodness to be darkened; but I find it difficult to grasp that so very many humans allow themselves to be overwhelmed by experiences so much that they feel justified in distorting the definitions of "human being" and "human behavior" through sick, hateful, hurtful activities. Why has having physical, emotional, and mental disease become a reason to inflict pain and suffering on other persons? Social predators continue because they have no consciences. Since a lack of conscience is connected not only to experiences but also to certain organic mental illnesses, a conscience is both learned and innate. We develop our consciences through our interactions and our inner actions.
How can humanity achieve a lower percentage of people lacking consciences? That's what the think tanks could be spending more time and money figuring out. More importantly, that's what parents should be devoting most of their lives with their children on.
OK, I realize how very, very middle-aged this whole diatribe sounds. And actually, I count myself as a liberal, spiritual-rather-than-organized-religion type, sometimes even accused of being a pointy-headed intellectual.... But the older I am fortunate enough to become, the more concerned I am about the urgent importance of "conscience" as a positive, not punitive, concept.
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Skywatch_NC
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My story:
I was standing in line at Universal Studios at the King Kong ride with my then 11 year old daughter. It was a crowded day. Immediately behind us in line was a man and a woman and two little boys. As the line inched its way forward, the man "bumped" in to me a few times, but I didn't give it much thought - it was quite crowded. Then, as we rounded a turn, out of the corner of my eye, I saw him "bump" my daughter from behind. It was then I realized he was NOT with the woman and her 2 boys as they were a good 4-5 feet behind him and he had no reason to have "accidentally bumped" her. I was very suspicious, but it wasn't obvious enough to be certain. I grabbed my daughter's hand and pulled her in front of me - keeping my hands on her shoulders. We were very near the start of the ride and I kept my daughter firmly in front of me and kept glancing back at the man. He kept moving very close, but not touching at this point. I glared at him, but he wouldn't make eye contact. I thought about notifying someone - but who? and for what? I "knew" what he was doing, but couldn't prove it and obviously no one else saw it. Even my daughter didn't have a clue ( good). When our turn came, I headed for an empty row, pushed my daughter in first, plopped my purse, my daughter's back pack and our shopping bag on my right ....as he slid in the same row. No one else sat with us in that row. I watched him through the entire ride. He kept his distance, but the more I looked at him, the odder it seemed to me. Forty-ish man, not wearing "theme park attire" - he had dress pants, a button down short sleeved shirt, and dress shoes and was obviously alone. He stared directly ahead the entire time, never looking at us or the ride. I never took my eyes off him. It was good that he didn't move as if he had slipped even an inch closer I would have belted him. When the ride ended, all I could think of was getting my daughter out before we got stuck in a crowd again. By the time we got outside, he was gone. I glanced around for some employee to notify, but realized, I really didn't have anything to go on other than a firm, unwaivering gut feeling that he was up to something.
Until this incident, I had never even considered the possibility of encountering a pervert in a theme park. But the more I thought about it, the more I realized it is darned near perfect for them. Crowds, tight dark spaces and lots of kids and harried parents with their guard down.
We still go to the parks, but I watch very carefully now.
I was standing in line at Universal Studios at the King Kong ride with my then 11 year old daughter. It was a crowded day. Immediately behind us in line was a man and a woman and two little boys. As the line inched its way forward, the man "bumped" in to me a few times, but I didn't give it much thought - it was quite crowded. Then, as we rounded a turn, out of the corner of my eye, I saw him "bump" my daughter from behind. It was then I realized he was NOT with the woman and her 2 boys as they were a good 4-5 feet behind him and he had no reason to have "accidentally bumped" her. I was very suspicious, but it wasn't obvious enough to be certain. I grabbed my daughter's hand and pulled her in front of me - keeping my hands on her shoulders. We were very near the start of the ride and I kept my daughter firmly in front of me and kept glancing back at the man. He kept moving very close, but not touching at this point. I glared at him, but he wouldn't make eye contact. I thought about notifying someone - but who? and for what? I "knew" what he was doing, but couldn't prove it and obviously no one else saw it. Even my daughter didn't have a clue ( good). When our turn came, I headed for an empty row, pushed my daughter in first, plopped my purse, my daughter's back pack and our shopping bag on my right ....as he slid in the same row. No one else sat with us in that row. I watched him through the entire ride. He kept his distance, but the more I looked at him, the odder it seemed to me. Forty-ish man, not wearing "theme park attire" - he had dress pants, a button down short sleeved shirt, and dress shoes and was obviously alone. He stared directly ahead the entire time, never looking at us or the ride. I never took my eyes off him. It was good that he didn't move as if he had slipped even an inch closer I would have belted him. When the ride ended, all I could think of was getting my daughter out before we got stuck in a crowd again. By the time we got outside, he was gone. I glanced around for some employee to notify, but realized, I really didn't have anything to go on other than a firm, unwaivering gut feeling that he was up to something.
Until this incident, I had never even considered the possibility of encountering a pervert in a theme park. But the more I thought about it, the more I realized it is darned near perfect for them. Crowds, tight dark spaces and lots of kids and harried parents with their guard down.
We still go to the parks, but I watch very carefully now.
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Stephanie
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I'm so glad that little girl was able to get away from him.
Miss Mary - I remember your story and how creeped out I felt the first time I read it.
Windswept - It's amazing how our "antennas" go up when something doesn't feel/seem right.
Great post Dee Bee. I do believe in rehabilitation, therapy and second chances, but if there's anyway possible that these social predators could harm another person, they need to be locked up.
There are days though that I have sincere doubts about how the human race truly starts out in life (i.e. good). True, alot of behavior is learned such as prejudice, etc. but like you said, how is it that a person even thinks about committing such an action or any crime for that matter? I don't understand how people can so blatantly hurt others for their own gain - and I'm not discussing the mentally ill anymore. I think alot of why we're seeing this lack of conscience is that people are not held responsible for anything anymore. People know that they can get away with just about anything they want to. That's another learned behavior, but if we started out "good" did that suddenly get lost in the mail somewhere along the way? You have a better attitude than I do about our fellow human beings, Dee Bee.
Miss Mary - I remember your story and how creeped out I felt the first time I read it.
Windswept - It's amazing how our "antennas" go up when something doesn't feel/seem right.
Great post Dee Bee. I do believe in rehabilitation, therapy and second chances, but if there's anyway possible that these social predators could harm another person, they need to be locked up.
There are days though that I have sincere doubts about how the human race truly starts out in life (i.e. good). True, alot of behavior is learned such as prejudice, etc. but like you said, how is it that a person even thinks about committing such an action or any crime for that matter? I don't understand how people can so blatantly hurt others for their own gain - and I'm not discussing the mentally ill anymore. I think alot of why we're seeing this lack of conscience is that people are not held responsible for anything anymore. People know that they can get away with just about anything they want to. That's another learned behavior, but if we started out "good" did that suddenly get lost in the mail somewhere along the way? You have a better attitude than I do about our fellow human beings, Dee Bee.
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Miss Mary
Windswept - your encounter at a theme part made me very uneasy. I am so glad your child was okay. And like you, I didn't know what exactly to do at the time our incident was happening. You're worried you're imagining the situation but your gut tells you no, your instincts are correct. If I am in a similar situation ever again, I am speaking up - big time.
I am convinced predators lurk in places kids gravitate to. Museums, Parks, Theme Parks, Zoo's, neighborhood playgrounds, etc. You just have to watch them carefully. Bathrooms are another place you need to be very careful, especially rest stops. When our girls were very little I took them both into a stall with me. Each went. It was quite cramped in there but we managed. By the time they finished, washed and dried their hands, getting back into the car, hubby wanted to start the engine. I'd plead, wait, my turn! He'd ask - you didn't go? When I pointed out it wasn't safe to send a 3 and 6 year old into individual stalls and then me next door, he understood. I was very relieved when they got much older. But I want them next to my stall, so I can see their feet. Well, maybe not now, they are almost 15 and 18. But these mollesters do lurk at rest stops I've heard.
All I know is my radar went up in 1994 and it's never really gone down. I trust my intuition 100% of the time now. My kids just know when it's up too. If we have a contractor in the house, one girl is home but the other has to be picked up after a meeting, we all go. No questions asked, no grumbling can't I stay home?
I'm getting off track. Let's face it - we can't rehabilitate them. We just have to change our ways and watch our children, and others carefully. I just always alert an employee if I see a confused child. Don't want my actions to be misconstrued.
Mary
I am convinced predators lurk in places kids gravitate to. Museums, Parks, Theme Parks, Zoo's, neighborhood playgrounds, etc. You just have to watch them carefully. Bathrooms are another place you need to be very careful, especially rest stops. When our girls were very little I took them both into a stall with me. Each went. It was quite cramped in there but we managed. By the time they finished, washed and dried their hands, getting back into the car, hubby wanted to start the engine. I'd plead, wait, my turn! He'd ask - you didn't go? When I pointed out it wasn't safe to send a 3 and 6 year old into individual stalls and then me next door, he understood. I was very relieved when they got much older. But I want them next to my stall, so I can see their feet. Well, maybe not now, they are almost 15 and 18. But these mollesters do lurk at rest stops I've heard.
All I know is my radar went up in 1994 and it's never really gone down. I trust my intuition 100% of the time now. My kids just know when it's up too. If we have a contractor in the house, one girl is home but the other has to be picked up after a meeting, we all go. No questions asked, no grumbling can't I stay home?
I'm getting off track. Let's face it - we can't rehabilitate them. We just have to change our ways and watch our children, and others carefully. I just always alert an employee if I see a confused child. Don't want my actions to be misconstrued.
Mary
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streetsoldier
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When I say that I believe people are inherently good, it is because I believe that an all-good Creator makes and intends humans to be that way. I do not mean to disrespect anyone's beliefs to the contrary (such as the concept of sinfulness) -- Unity (my denomination) teaches that there are many paths to one Light.
I believe all humans have the capability to affirm, nuture, and manifest that goodness. Unfortunately, the reality is that far too many people do not exercise that capability. They choose not to -- or they do not know how to.
And thanks for bringing up "sociopath," streetsoldier. That's an incredibly horrific label! Why do people become sociopathic? How can they be "reached" when they genuinely have no regard whatsoever for anyone else? If, by definition, they have no conscience, what can be done?
(BTW, I am really enjoying this thread! )
I believe all humans have the capability to affirm, nuture, and manifest that goodness. Unfortunately, the reality is that far too many people do not exercise that capability. They choose not to -- or they do not know how to.
And thanks for bringing up "sociopath," streetsoldier. That's an incredibly horrific label! Why do people become sociopathic? How can they be "reached" when they genuinely have no regard whatsoever for anyone else? If, by definition, they have no conscience, what can be done?
(BTW, I am really enjoying this thread! )
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GalvestonDuck
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Be aware of your kids at the mall also. Dressing rooms seem to be a favorite hangout for them (predators), as well as standing close to the clothes racks and brushing against kids and they pass each other. And who hasn't seen the news about predators using camera phones to get "upskirts" shots?
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LSU2001
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sorry for the bluntness but dull knives, a stump and gasoline all come to mind when I read stories like this. I have no sympathy for anything that happens to one of these predators. I think they should be treated as the vermin that they are and exterminated.
or give him a choice Cut or Burn.
Tim
or give him a choice Cut or Burn.
Tim
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streetsoldier
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"And thanks for bringing up "sociopath," streetsoldier. That's an incredibly horrific label! Why do people become sociopathic? How can they be "reached" when they genuinely have no regard whatsoever for anyone else? If, by definition, they have no conscience, what can be done?"
The best description of such people I ever heard was "institutional personalities"...meaning they will spend much of their lives either in prison or a state mental facility (or both). The only thing they fear and loathe is incarceration (and the rules, authority figures, etc. that go with it), and they will do ANYTHING to avoid capture/detention/sentencing or commitment therein. And, I mean "ANYTHING".
The best description of such people I ever heard was "institutional personalities"...meaning they will spend much of their lives either in prison or a state mental facility (or both). The only thing they fear and loathe is incarceration (and the rules, authority figures, etc. that go with it), and they will do ANYTHING to avoid capture/detention/sentencing or commitment therein. And, I mean "ANYTHING".
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Thanks again for your thoughts, streetsolider.
I agree with your (sadly) accurate assessment of the term "sociopath." I, too, cannot see any way other than incarceration for dealing with such people. I'm not naive; I acknowledge -- but cannot fathom -- the combination of zero respect and zero regard for other human beings coupled with the desire to do deliberate, unprovoked, physical and mental harm.
Other observations:
(1)I believe that "respect" for other human beings can and should be modeled and taught, but I'm frequently astonished that even the concept of "regard" often doesn't appear innate. Or am I mistakenly making a difference between "respect" and "regard" where there really isn't one?
(2)Are sociopathic acts on the rise, or is it more that sophistication of communications, etc., makes such acts more visible?
I agree with your (sadly) accurate assessment of the term "sociopath." I, too, cannot see any way other than incarceration for dealing with such people. I'm not naive; I acknowledge -- but cannot fathom -- the combination of zero respect and zero regard for other human beings coupled with the desire to do deliberate, unprovoked, physical and mental harm.
Other observations:
(1)I believe that "respect" for other human beings can and should be modeled and taught, but I'm frequently astonished that even the concept of "regard" often doesn't appear innate. Or am I mistakenly making a difference between "respect" and "regard" where there really isn't one?
(2)Are sociopathic acts on the rise, or is it more that sophistication of communications, etc., makes such acts more visible?
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Stephanie
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Dee Bee wrote:When I say that I believe people are inherently good, it is because I believe that an all-good Creator makes and intends humans to be that way. I [b]do not mean to disrespect anyone's beliefs to the contrary [/b](such as the concept of sinfulness) -- Unity (my denomination) teaches that there are many paths to one Light.
I believe all humans have the capability to affirm, nuture, and manifest that goodness. Unfortunately, the reality is that far too many people do not exercise that capability. They choose not to -- or they do not know how to.
I never took it that way at all. I agree that all humans have that ability and I really WANT TO BELIEVE that people were born initially good. I guess for me, I'm alittle mentally beat down by alot of the "bad" I've seen/read/experienced over the years. However, I'm on the verge of tears whenever I read a heartwarming story about what a person or a group does for someone or something. It gives me hope.
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CaptinCrunch
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vbhoutex
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(2)Are sociopathic acts on the rise, or is it more that sophistication of communications, etc., makes such acts more visible?
Good question! I think it is a combination of the above. On the rise because our population continues to increase and our communication abilities are becoming more and more widespread and sophisticated.
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