hate crime laws, should they be unconstitutional?

[rainstorm]

i say yes. i say it is extremely dangerous for the govt to punish people for what they think. a person should be punished for their actions, not their thoughts. what if a beat the daylights out of one girl because she is trying to steal my bf and i beat up another girl because she is gay. should i be punished extra for beating up the gay girl? of course not. hate crimes are a politicaly correct punishment. everyone one of us hates someone or something, should we be put in prison because of our thoughts? and why single out hate as an emotion to punish? if i beat up a girl because i am jealous of her, should thier be "a jealousy crime" that i can be convicted of in addition to assaulkt and battery? what about "envy crimes"?
"fear crimes"? trust me, once the govt prosecutes people for their thoughts, where will it end? one day you may go to prison because someone reported you saying you "hated" a certain group of people.

[weatherlover427]

I say no. Hate crimes are very bad and people should still be punished for them no matter what.

[southerngale]

I agree rainstorm. If you shoot someone because you don't like them for whatever reason, isn't that a hate crime? You hate that person. If you decide to do harm to someone, no matter your motive, isn't that a hate crime? Why don't they go ahead and name it what they really want it to be? A PREJUDICE CRIME!

[rainstorm]

I say no. Hate crimes are very bad and people should still be punished for them no matter what.

we all hate someone or something. should we all be in prison? what thoughts will the govt allow us to have? if one emotion is said to be illegal, where will it stop? there is no such thing as a 'hate" crime, only crime. this is not china, or stalin's russia, or nazi germany. punish a person for their actions, not their thoughts. once you go down the road of making thought a crime it wont be long till the govt comes up with a whole list of 'thought"
that is illegal.

[JCT777]

Interesting topic. I never really thought of this subject the way you presented it, rainstorm. I think punishing people extra for their thoughts is not right, but I think you have taken your logic too far. I don't believe that simply saying you hate a certain group is going to put you in jail. At least I HOPE not! :o

But if you beat someone else up for any reason other than self-defense (or defense of another who is being attacked), it should be punished the same whether you did it for revenge, or you hate the person's hairstyle, or you disagree with their religious beliefs.

[rainstorm]

Interesting topic. I never really thought of this subject the way you presented it, rainstorm. I think punishing people extra for their thoughts is not right, but I think you have taken your logic too far. I don't believe that simply saying you hate a certain group is going to put you in jail. At least I HOPE not! :o

But if you beat someone else up for any reason other than self-defense (or defense of another who is being attacked), it should be punished the same whether you did it for revenge, or you hate the person's hairstyle, or you disagree with their religious beliefs.

but i feel once 'hate' crimes are prosecuted, where does it end? i dont think it is far-fetched at all to envision a govt agency set up to decide which thoughts are legal and which ones arent.

[JCT777]

i dont think it is far-fetched at all to envision a govt agency set up to decide which thoughts are legal and which ones arent.

Well then we need to make sure that doesn't happen! I'll do my part by not voting for anyone who supports that type of logic.

[Rainband]

No..The law makes sense, If you target someone because they are a certain race or sexuality..That is a hate crime..because your doing it because they are black..arab..gay .. Not because they dated your boyfriend..That law is designed to stop the abuse of certain groups..To target someone because of who they are race or sexuality is wrong. This law is for the kind of idiots who do just that and I think anyone who hates anybody because of this criteria is a moron!! Back a few years back remember The gay kid.. Matthew sheppard .. beaten to death and left on a fence and the colored guy dragged behind the truck..This law is to prevent those type of crimes..to show there are consequenses..

[Rainband]

i dont think it is far-fetched at all to envision a govt agency set up to decide which thoughts are legal and which ones arent.

My mouse got tired but that is one of the most idiotic idea's I have ever heard!!!

[Rainband]

i say yes. i say it is extremely dangerous for the govt to punish people for what they think. a person should be punished for their actions, not their thoughts. what if a beat the daylights out of one girl because she is trying to steal my bf and i beat up another girl because she is gay. should i be punished extra for beating up the gay girl? of course not. hate crimes are a politicaly correct punishment. everyone one of us hates someone or something, should we be put in prison because of our thoughts? and why single out hate as an emotion to punish? if i beat up a girl because i am jealous of her, should thier be "a jealousy crime" that i can be convicted of in addition to assaulkt and battery? what about "envy crimes"?
"fear crimes"? trust me, once the govt prosecutes people for their thoughts, where will it end?one day you may go to prison because someone reported you saying you "hated" a certain group of people.

BTW the law isn't for thoughts it's when you act on those feelings..You are taking this out of context!!!!!

[southerngale]

No..The law makes sense, If you target someone because they are a certain race or sexuality..That is a hate crime..because your doing it because they are black..arab..gay .. Not because they dated your boyfriend..That law is designed to stop the abuse of certain groups..To target someone because of who they are race or sexuality is wrong. This law is for the kind of idiots who do just that and I think anyone who hates anybody because of this criteria is a moron!! Back a few years back remember The gay kid.. Matthew sheppard .. beaten to death and left on a fence and the colored guy dragged behind the truck..This law is to prevent those type of crimes..to show there are consequenses..

But rainband, is it worse that those 3 SCUMBAGS dragged James Byrd Jr. behind the truck to his death than if those same 3 SCUMBAGS dragged another guy they of the same race behind their truck to his death? Why is one murder worse than the other? They are both "hate" crimes. There are consequences no matter what the motive is.
This law keeps racism alive and kicking.

[Lindaloo]

What she means is that HOW DOES ONE KNOW the persons intentions. The government or anyone else does not know what the intentions are of the individual that committs a crime against a black, white, yellow or green person. A crime is a crime and race plays no part nor has any part in what one does to any victim.

Our govt has chosen to take it upon itself to make those assumptions. What that means is if a white man robs and kills a black man then it is deemed by our govt to be a hate crime, when in fact it was a robbery murder of another human being. And vice versa.

[Rainband]

No..The law makes sense, If you target someone because they are a certain race or sexuality..That is a hate crime..because your doing it because they are black..arab..gay .. Not because they dated your boyfriend..That law is designed to stop the abuse of certain groups..To target someone because of who they are race or sexuality is wrong. This law is for the kind of idiots who do just that and I think anyone who hates anybody because of this criteria is a moron!! Back a few years back remember The gay kid.. Matthew sheppard .. beaten to death and left on a fence and the colored guy dragged behind the truck..This law is to prevent those type of crimes..to show there are consequenses..

But rainband, is it worse that those 3 SCUMBAGS dragged James Byrd Jr. behind the truck to his death than if those same 3 SCUMBAGS dragged another guy they of the same race behind their truck to his death? Why is one murder worse than the other? They are both "hate" crimes. There are consequences no matter what the motive is.
This law keeps racism alive and kicking.

No..because they targeted him because he was BLACK makes it worse...To take any life is bad..but to TARGET someone for no other reason than their race or sexuality is far worse!!!IMHO

[Lindaloo]

I agree southerngale. Laws like that should not even exist. No murder is above the other.

Those scumbags that were target shooting at citizens in VA and Washington did not get charged with any hate crimes, only Capital Murder, even though they killed men women and shot at children of all races. Now rainband... is that fair?

[Rainband]

BUT THEY DIDN"T TARGET THEM BECAUSE OF THEIR RACE OR SEXUALITY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HATE crimes TARGET PEOPLE because of their ethnic backround or sexuality..For no other reason!!! That is my point!! It is wrong to kill anybody..but to kill someone because they are a different race and only for that reason is far worse!!!!!!!!

[Lindaloo]

Those men DID target them and killed them. IMO that is also a hate crime. But were not charged with one.

[Rainband]

Those men DID target them and killed them. IMO that is also a hate crime. But were not charged with one.

BUT NOT BECAUSE OF THEIR RACE!!!!!!!!! In hate crimes the only reason people are targeted is because of their RACE!! They don't kill radomly..they don't kill because of a domestic disturbance..they don't kill because they got into a fight or a robbery went wrong..They only KILL BECAUSE THEIR VICTIM IS A CERTAIN RACE OR SEXUALITY!!!!

[GulfBreezer]

I have to say that I agree with Rainband on this one! The government did not design this law so that someone could use it as a crime of lesser or greater stature. With hate crimes there is evidence that the crime was specifically targeted at a person simply because of race, religion or sexual preference. Should we not have discrimination laws either? That way, anyone who doesn't get hired for a job can kick and scream? As much as we hate to admit it, there are people out there who kill people simply because of "what" they are. They are usually not real shy about voicing their reasons either.

[Lindaloo]

How do you know that is their intention? That is all I am getting at. How does one know what that person is thinking during that time? I see this type thing all the time in the courtroom. It has been brought up before grand juries who have chosen not to indict because there are no facts to prove hate crimes. Seen it thousands of times.

A murder is a murder is a robbery is a robbery.

But I understand your way of thinking too.

[mf_dolphin]

I think it's important to remember that if a crime is designated a "hate crime" then the govenrment must prove their case for the designation. It's still a jury that must decide the facts.