Could you live on this income?

[Amanzi]

I have been researching jobs back in South Africa.. just to get an idea of what is being paid. My eyeballs nearly popped out of there sockets!!!!

Ok I worked out the exchange rate.... For a full time Nanny (thats from 7am to 6PM Mon-Sun, 2 days off a month)! Salary. $166.00 PER MONTH!!!!!


Sales rep (asking for at least 10 years experiance) $250.00 PER MONTH!

In all honesty things in South Africa are VERY expensive, especially cars and property. Do you think you could survive on such a meager wage? Dont forget it is virtually impossible to get any kind of goverment aide.. there are no such things as food stamps!

[wxcrazytwo]

well, for some reason they do. We are too materialistic and cannot live on that..

[coriolis]

No doubt it will be a BIG change, to move there. Yes, the people survive, but surely, they are not living anywhere close to our standard of living.

[Amanzi]

I know it is crazy Ed..

I know I am not going to have the quality of life I have here, I have learnt in America if you are willing to work hard and keep your credit clean, there is nothing to stop you from living a very comfortable life. The thing that makes me angry is in South Africa the rich are VERY rich and the Poor are DIRT poor. There is a very small and struggling middle class there. Take my inlaws for example, they have a $1.2 million apartment, 3 cars and a maid. My parents live in a shack and have no transport. I blame the economy and the corruption at every level!!! Also I think it is not Americans love of money that would make it difficult to survive on such an income. South Africans in general are still very involved in a kind of unspoken "caste" system. There are no white female bus drivers for example, McDonalds workers are young students, people there are ashamed to take a menial job to survive, grabage men are frowned upon. Now it has gotten to the stage where there just is NO work for virtually anyone. Friends of mine have colledge degrees and they are either too qualified to take a part time job or they have left the country seeking some kind of carreer. I must admit Im a bit on the aprehensive side about our standard of living ... I guess that is why I have realised if we want to "make" it, we are going to have to start our own business.

[gtalum]

The thing that makes me angry is in South Africa the rich are VERY rich and the Poor are DIRT poor.

This is the way in many so-called "developing" countries. It is the result of a severe lack of investment in government (through paying taxes) and society. While I am no advocate for high taxation, we should all be careful to not wish for the elimination of taxes. Taxes are necessary to build and maintain the kind of society that we have here in America, where just about anybody can make a comfortable living on their own, and even hit the big time.

Like several other nations in southern Africa, South Africa was prosperous under white rule, and is falling apart under black rule. This is not because of an inherent inferiority in black people, but is instead teh result of the pent up anger and resulting corruption from the oppressive society that existed before. On the bright side, South Africa seems to be on the road to real recovery.

[streetsoldier]

Amanzi,

I get more than that from Social Security...and even that amount is pitifully inadequate.

[Amanzi]

The thing that makes me angry is in South Africa the rich are VERY rich and the Poor are DIRT poor.

This is the way in many so-called "developing" countries. It is the result of a severe lack of investment in government (through paying taxes) and society. While I am no advocate for high taxation, we should all be careful to not wish for the elimination of taxes. Taxes are necessary to build and maintain the kind of society that we have here in America, where just about anybody can make a comfortable living on their own, and even hit the big time.

Like several other nations in southern Africa, South Africa was prosperous under white rule, and is falling apart under black rule. This is not because of an inherent inferiority in black people, but is instead teh result of the pent up anger and resulting corruption from the oppressive society that existed before. On the bright side, South Africa seems to be on the road to real recovery.

I could not have said that any better myself!!!!!!!!! Bravo, you hit the nail right on the preverbial head!

[Swimdude]

Having just started my high school Economics class THIS WEEK, this topic is fairly relevant to what we've been discussing... That's actually one promise of the US Govt... That basically no group of people can be rich, while another group exceedingly poor. Unfortunately, the word "group" gives this law so much room for mistake, it's ridiculous.

[gtalum]

I think it's more like "no group will be exceedingly poor, unless they forego the chances that are given to them". No one is forced to be poor throughout their lives. There is a free education for every American child through the 12th grade, and ample opportunity for higher education for anybody, not just rich kids. Unfortunately, we rely on their parents to guide them in the right direction throughout childhood. No amount of government intervention can replace good parenting.

[azsnowman]

I think it's more like "no group will be exceedingly poor, unless they forego the chances that are given to them". No one is forced to be poor throughout their lives. There is a free education for every American child through the 12th grade, and ample opportunity for higher education for anybody, not just rich kids. Unfortunately, we rely on their parents to guide them in the right direction throughout childhood. No amount of government intervention can replace good parenting.

"Amen, Amen and AMEEEEEN!" VERY WELL said!! That's the problem TODAY, there's a SEVERE lack of parenting!! I see it EVERY stinkin' DAY....we (the PD) spend MORE time at the schools than we do on what we SHOULD be doing, but NO....we are underpaid, overworked, sworn officers of BABYSITTING!!

Sorry for hijacking this thread Amanzi didn't mean to go off on a rant like that!! Those wages? Pinetop PD pays about the SAME!!

Dennis

[Kim_in_MN]

Sorry for hijacking this thread Amanzi didn't mean to go off on a rant like that!! Those wages? Pinetop PD pays about the SAME!!

Dennis

In the city council minutes from our local paper this week it stated the hourly wage they are offering starting police officers for the city, and I was shocked. It is only about $5 more an hour than I make as a legal secretary. I live in a rural area, but it is still a ridiculous amount for someone that is possibly putting their life on the line!

Kim

[breeze]

Those wages are ridiculous, indeed!

I'd never make it...$250/month?

I guess DRIVING to work would NOT be an option....

[BUD]

We have 4 people from Russia working with us and they said they only get paid only $122 a month!!!!AND 2 days off a month!!!Jobs are very hard to fine from what I was told.The miltary people gets paid only $75 a month!!!!!

[azskyman]

Bronnie. We grow so accustomed to our lifestyles that sometimes we don't really know what we can live with and live without.

I've worked hard over the years; we've worked hard. And we see our cell phones and computers as needs, not wants.

I look at those numbers you show us...and try to put it in perspective of what you will be facing back in South Africa, and it's hard to imagine a life of any substance there with those kinds of wages.

Were you teaching ballet or dance when you were there before? Or was that on a volunteer basis?

The whole range of history, class, and race issues that surround that country make it both a wonderful place of opportunity and a disheartening one if you cannot grow...and your children can not thrive.

You are among the strongest and most faithful of His followers. As your family's chapter closes in this country, I just know a new one, with plenty of positives, will begin anew in South Africa.

It is good that you are looking at the realities that you will face, however, in advance of your arrival back in that country.

Steve

[Meso]

Yup, It's harsh stuff here in South Africa... My mom is currently unemployed so it's harder... All jobs pay really little.. A full day job at some estate agencies only earn about R3000 (divide by 6.7 for US $).. really want to move out of here..
Also now with the new goverment.. Some jobs can only be given to black people... aswell as the sports teams, they are looking past skill and onto race, this is not making people equal but rather damaging the economy for "providing chances" In my opinion qualifications has more of a factor than the colour of ones skin.

Thought I'd write some of the prices on things... (divide by 6.7 for US $)..

Average car (new) :: R 110 000
Suburban 4 bedroom House :: R800 000
DSL internet connection (512k with 3 gig cap) :: R 800 p/m (Blame Telkom for that)
Cell phone (Motorola V600) :: R2500

[kc0spg]

wow....$166/month. ...I make that much in a day working my usuall 10 hour day overtime. very sad indeed. i would move in a heartbeat, if possible.

[Aslkahuna]

When I lived for two years in the Philippines after leaving the Air Force, we lived very well on no more than 400 dollars/month equivalent. So it can be done.

Steve

[kevin]

We have 4 people from Russia working with us and they said they only get paid only $122 a month!!!!AND 2 days off a month!!!Jobs are very hard to fine from what I was told.The miltary people gets paid only $75 a month!!!!!

Yes that is why Czar Putin is consolidating power. Its almost a necessity.

[JenBayles]

The thing that makes me angry is in South Africa the rich are VERY rich and the Poor are DIRT poor.

This is the way in many so-called "developing" countries. It is the result of a severe lack of investment in government (through paying taxes) and society. While I am no advocate for high taxation, we should all be careful to not wish for the elimination of taxes. Taxes are necessary to build and maintain the kind of society that we have here in America, where just about anybody can make a comfortable living on their own, and even hit the big time.

Explain to me how my standard of living is better when the federal government picks pocket of 30% of my income every year and gives it to someone else? Not to mention sales tax, gas tax, state tax and local tax...

[gtalum]

Explain to me how my standard of living is better when the federal government picks pocket of 30% of my income every year and gives it to someone else? Not to mention sales tax, gas tax, state tax and local tax...

The average American probably pays a grand total of ~40% in the form of taxes of some sort or another. I'm not saying this number shouldn't be lower. Everyone knows that bureaucracy breeds inefficiency.

However, not all of that ~40% goes to "someone else". For that 40% you receive education, roads, military protection, law enforcement, fire protection, unemployment insurance, and thousands of other little things that you probably never notice in your daily life. We never notice those things because they're taken care of.

All of these things are necessary for the vast majority of residents of a nation to move beyond basic subsistence. This is why most "developing" countries never seem to actually develop. Without a basic stable and secure infrastructure development is absolutely impossible.

There are many nations to choose from with very low or nonexistent taxes. I doubt you'd want to live in any of them.