INVEST 92L: Bahamas : Gone fron NRL

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eaglegirl
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#201 Postby eaglegirl » Wed Oct 03, 2007 3:34 pm

I view the models as just one of the tools in our "toolbox".

Like any "hurricane tool", you can't count on the same tool getting the job every time.

The best analogy that I can give is in regards to hurricane communications, which is one of my sub-specialties. Once I'm out in the field, I have to choose which communications "tool" is appropriate to get communications through... and I carry them all onboard... including but not limited to Cellular, CB, Amatuer Radio, Satellite, and Packet Data.

It's not an "all or nothing" deal. I don't go out there thinking that either "I will" or "I won't" be able to get communications through. I pull out the best "tool" and make adjustments as necessary... whether it is antennas, location, connections, etc. While I can make pretty darn good predictions about what I will need and how I will do it, I never know for sure until I am there.

That said, I consider the models to be just another hurricane "tools". Sometimes it is the best tool and sometimes it isn't. In my opinion, most of the time it rests somewhere in between and always gives me more data to consider.

As far as 92L goes, just looking continually at the Water Vapor Loops, I would be much more surprised if something did not develop. In my opinion, this is the most ominous looking system we've had this season as a "possible" threat to the US.

So... I am not looking at these models as a simple "yes" or "no" hurricane solution.

While I believe something is going to pop out of this system, I don't think the models are going to give us their very very very best until that happens. :)
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#202 Postby Blown Away » Wed Oct 03, 2007 3:35 pm

hurricanetrack wrote:Oh yeah- it is definitely a swirl there with nice spiral arms. Not large but there and moving northwest it appears:

http://www.ssd.noaa.gov/goes/flt/t2/loop-vis.html

Add the lat/lon and speed up the animation. Near 28 and 71.3 as mentioned above.


Sure does look like an exposed LLC at 28N/71.4W. Wxman57 says it's an eddy.
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#203 Postby 'CaneFreak » Wed Oct 03, 2007 3:36 pm

Blown_away wrote:
x-y-no wrote:So the deeper the system, the more southerly the track ...


I thought shallow systems tend to move more west and deeper systems tend to move poleward?


NO. Weaker systems follow the low level flow. That is a terrible misconception. I am not sure who started that. Deeper systems follow the 200-700 mb flow ALL THE TIME. Weaker systems follow the 700mb-850mb flow (low level flow) ALL THE TIME.
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Re: INVEST 92L : Models Thread

#204 Postby poof121 » Wed Oct 03, 2007 3:37 pm

Anyone have a link to the model diagrams that included how warm or cold core a system is? I used to look at them, and now I can't remember where I saw them.

Thanks.
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Re: INVEST 92L : Models Thread

#205 Postby RL3AO » Wed Oct 03, 2007 3:38 pm

poof121 wrote:Anyone have a link to the model diagrams that included how warm or cold core a system is? I used to look at them, and now I can't remember where I saw them.

Thanks.


These?
http://moe.met.fsu.edu/cyclonephase/
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#206 Postby boca » Wed Oct 03, 2007 3:39 pm

According to Mia NWS we won't even get a shower out of 92L because it will be too far south. Rain chance is only 40%.
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Re: INVEST 92L : Models Thread

#207 Postby 'CaneFreak » Wed Oct 03, 2007 3:39 pm

poof121 wrote:Anyone have a link to the model diagrams that included how warm or cold core a system is? I used to look at them, and now I can't remember where I saw them.

Thanks.


Here you go. No problem. Always here to help you out. :P

http://moe.met.fsu.edu/cyclonephase/
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#208 Postby HURRICANELONNY » Wed Oct 03, 2007 3:43 pm

any recon flights scheduled? :roll:
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Re:

#209 Postby RL3AO » Wed Oct 03, 2007 3:44 pm

HURRICANELONNY wrote:any recon flights scheduled? :roll:


Tomorrow if you are really asking.
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#210 Postby Extremeweatherguy » Wed Oct 03, 2007 3:45 pm

If these models are right, then this system will be taking quite an unusual path for October. It will certainly be interesting to watch this all play out.
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Re: INVEST 92L : Near Bahamas : Discussions & Images

#211 Postby Blown Away » Wed Oct 03, 2007 3:46 pm

Models initialize near 26.9N/73.1W, does anybody see any sign of a circulation near there, I don't. Tight little spin/eddy near 28N/71.4W moving NW.
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Re:

#212 Postby 'CaneFreak » Wed Oct 03, 2007 3:48 pm

Extremeweatherguy wrote:If these models are right, then this system will be taking quite an unusual path for October. It will certainly be interesting to watch this all play out.


Yeah it is going to be interesting. Per the latest BOM, this is also unusual for us to see a La Nina set up this late in the season as well. So yeah. The next few weeks could really be INTERESTING.
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Re:

#213 Postby HURRICANELONNY » Wed Oct 03, 2007 3:48 pm

boca wrote:According to Mia NWS we won't even get a shower out of 92L because it will be too far south. Rain chance is only 40%.


Don't bet on it..........
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Re:

#214 Postby Brent » Wed Oct 03, 2007 3:48 pm

Extremeweatherguy wrote:If these models are right, then this system will be taking quite an unusual path for October. It will certainly be interesting to watch this all play out.


Strong ridging here, more like August than October. I agree, it'd be very unusual but I think it will happen.
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Re: INVEST 92L : Models Thread

#215 Postby MiamiensisWx » Wed Oct 03, 2007 3:50 pm

Well, Inez '66 featured a vaguely similar upper-air pattern in early October, too. It took an unusual WSW movement across the FL Keys; it eventually hit mainland Mexico.

http://weather.unisys.com/hurricane/atlantic/1966/INEZ/track.gif
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Re: INVEST 92L : Near Bahamas : Discussions & Images

#216 Postby Stormcenter » Wed Oct 03, 2007 3:54 pm

The NWS discussion out of New Orleans, LA this afternoon doesn't even mention 92L.
AREA FORECAST DISCUSSION
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE NEW ORLEANS LA
329 PM CDT WED OCT 3 2007

.SHORT TERM...
THE NON TROPICAL LOW PRESSURE AREA IN THE GULF OF MEXICO ABOUT
325 MILES SOUTHEAST OF NEW ORLEANS HAS BEEN MOVING TOWARDS THE
NORTHWEST ABOUT 15 MPH TODAY. THE LOW CENTER IS EXPOSED WITHOUT
ANY SIGNIFICANT CONVECTION NEAR IT. THE LOW IS EXPECTED TO TAKE A
TURN MORE WEST NORTHWEST OVER NIGHT AND THURSDAY. THIS WILL ALLOW
THE WINDS TO BECOME EAST AND SOUTHEAST...AND WILL BRING A GOOD
CHANCE OF SHOWERS TO THE REGION ON THURSDAY AND FRIDAY. AT THIS
TIME WE DO NOT ANTICIPATE ISSUING A COASTAL FLOOD ADVISORY SINCE
THE LOW IS EXPECTED TO REMAIN WEAK AND THE RESULTING ONSHORE FLOW
WILL NOT BE THAT STRONG.

.LONG TERM...
ONCE THE LOW PRESSURE AREA MAKES LANDFALL NEAR TX AND LA BORDER
ON FRIDAY...UPPER LEVEL HIGH PRESSURE WILL BUILD OVER THE OH/TN
VALLEYS IN RESPONSE DEEPENING UPPER LEVEL LOW OVER THE CO ROCKIES.
THIS WILL BRING THE GULF COAST REGION UNDER A PERSISTENT LOW LEVEL
EAST FLOW. THE UPPER LEVEL HIGH SHOULD GRADUALLY MOVE TO THE SOUTHEAST
STATES AS A UPPER LEVEL TROUGH APPROACHES THE GULF STATES BY TUESDAY
AND MOVES TO THE SOUTHEAST STATES BY FRIDAY.
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Re: INVEST 92L : Near Bahamas : Discussions & Images

#217 Postby 'CaneFreak » Wed Oct 03, 2007 3:58 pm

Stormcenter wrote:The NWS discussion out of New Orleans, LA this afternoon doesn't even mention 92L.
AREA FORECAST DISCUSSION
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE NEW ORLEANS LA
329 PM CDT WED OCT 3 2007

.SHORT TERM...
THE NON TROPICAL LOW PRESSURE AREA IN THE GULF OF MEXICO ABOUT
325 MILES SOUTHEAST OF NEW ORLEANS HAS BEEN MOVING TOWARDS THE
NORTHWEST ABOUT 15 MPH TODAY. THE LOW CENTER IS EXPOSED WITHOUT
ANY SIGNIFICANT CONVECTION NEAR IT. THE LOW IS EXPECTED TO TAKE A
TURN MORE WEST NORTHWEST OVER NIGHT AND THURSDAY. THIS WILL ALLOW
THE WINDS TO BECOME EAST AND SOUTHEAST...AND WILL BRING A GOOD
CHANCE OF SHOWERS TO THE REGION ON THURSDAY AND FRIDAY. AT THIS
TIME WE DO NOT ANTICIPATE ISSUING A COASTAL FLOOD ADVISORY SINCE
THE LOW IS EXPECTED TO REMAIN WEAK AND THE RESULTING ONSHORE FLOW
WILL NOT BE THAT STRONG.

.LONG TERM...
ONCE THE LOW PRESSURE AREA MAKES LANDFALL NEAR TX AND LA BORDER
ON FRIDAY...UPPER LEVEL HIGH PRESSURE WILL BUILD OVER THE OH/TN
VALLEYS IN RESPONSE DEEPENING UPPER LEVEL LOW OVER THE CO ROCKIES.
THIS WILL BRING THE GULF COAST REGION UNDER A PERSISTENT LOW LEVEL
EAST FLOW. THE UPPER LEVEL HIGH SHOULD GRADUALLY MOVE TO THE SOUTHEAST
STATES AS A UPPER LEVEL TROUGH APPROACHES THE GULF STATES BY TUESDAY
AND MOVES TO THE SOUTHEAST STATES BY FRIDAY.


Should they? Just asking. This thing is headed southwest. :roll:
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Re: INVEST 92L : Models Thread

#218 Postby cycloneye » Wed Oct 03, 2007 4:00 pm

18z NAM Loop

:uarrow: :uarrow: :uarrow:

Here is the 18z NAM that moves 92L thru the Florida Straits.
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Re: INVEST 92L : Near Bahamas : Discussions & Images

#219 Postby Stormcenter » Wed Oct 03, 2007 4:03 pm

'CaneFreak wrote:
Stormcenter wrote:The NWS discussion out of New Orleans, LA this afternoon doesn't even mention 92L.
AREA FORECAST DISCUSSION
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE NEW ORLEANS LA
329 PM CDT WED OCT 3 2007

.SHORT TERM...
THE NON TROPICAL LOW PRESSURE AREA IN THE GULF OF MEXICO ABOUT
325 MILES SOUTHEAST OF NEW ORLEANS HAS BEEN MOVING TOWARDS THE
NORTHWEST ABOUT 15 MPH TODAY. THE LOW CENTER IS EXPOSED WITHOUT
ANY SIGNIFICANT CONVECTION NEAR IT. THE LOW IS EXPECTED TO TAKE A
TURN MORE WEST NORTHWEST OVER NIGHT AND THURSDAY. THIS WILL ALLOW
THE WINDS TO BECOME EAST AND SOUTHEAST...AND WILL BRING A GOOD
CHANCE OF SHOWERS TO THE REGION ON THURSDAY AND FRIDAY. AT THIS
TIME WE DO NOT ANTICIPATE ISSUING A COASTAL FLOOD ADVISORY SINCE
THE LOW IS EXPECTED TO REMAIN WEAK AND THE RESULTING ONSHORE FLOW
WILL NOT BE THAT STRONG.

.LONG TERM...
ONCE THE LOW PRESSURE AREA MAKES LANDFALL NEAR TX AND LA BORDER
ON FRIDAY...UPPER LEVEL HIGH PRESSURE WILL BUILD OVER THE OH/TN
VALLEYS IN RESPONSE DEEPENING UPPER LEVEL LOW OVER THE CO ROCKIES.
THIS WILL BRING THE GULF COAST REGION UNDER A PERSISTENT LOW LEVEL
EAST FLOW. THE UPPER LEVEL HIGH SHOULD GRADUALLY MOVE TO THE SOUTHEAST
STATES AS A UPPER LEVEL TROUGH APPROACHES THE GULF STATES BY TUESDAY
AND MOVES TO THE SOUTHEAST STATES BY FRIDAY.


Should they? Just asking. This thing is headed southwest. :roll:


Well normally all of the Gulf coast cities mention any possibility of something tropical entering the GOM in their "long term outlook" like 92L unless they don't think the situation warrants it. My point is I guess that means they don't anticipate it as being a problem for the GOM.
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chadtm80

Re: INVEST 92L : Near Bahamas : 5:30 PM TWO Shortly

#220 Postby chadtm80 » Wed Oct 03, 2007 4:08 pm

Image

Image
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