CAT 5 Hurricane Dean - Archived threads

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mgpetre
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Re:

#7501 Postby mgpetre » Sat Aug 18, 2007 12:50 am

KBBOCA wrote:Am I seeing things? This can't be right, can it?

The GFDL animation on W. Underground is showing Dean as staying at a Cat 5 from the Caribbean (i.e. about now!) all the way to landfall on the Mex/Tex border.

Has there ever been such a long-lived Cat 5???? This is crazy, right?
http://www.wunderground.com/tropical/tr ... 5d#a_topad



I wish that were the TX/MX border. I'm sorry folks, but I just don't want to see a Cat 5 affect Houston like this. With all of the economic troubles lately, this could be the nail in the coffin for us in many ways. still a long time out...
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Re: Re:

#7502 Postby Air Force Met » Sat Aug 18, 2007 12:51 am

Stratosphere747 wrote:
Extremeweatherguy wrote:BTW, for anybody just clicking onto this thread. You can see an image of the new GFS, UKMET and GFDL runs on page 141.


Shows a Mexico LF....;)


Also shows a 360 mile shift to the north over the previous run and it keeps the upper low further south and closer to Dean...as some of the other models do (which have been showing a more WNW/NW motion at the end).
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#7503 Postby fasterdisaster » Sat Aug 18, 2007 12:52 am

Why did they only up it to 150? Should at least be 155?
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Re: Hurricane DEAN: Global Models

#7504 Postby Stormcenter » Sat Aug 18, 2007 12:52 am

Air Force Met wrote:
Extremeweatherguy wrote:
Ed Mahmoud wrote:GFDL, while still hitting Texas, is trending farther South each run today. dModel/dT is trending in our favor.
Believe me, if the GFS and other models are right about the positioning of the ULL and high next week, then nothing will be in Texas' favor. Stay tuned for further model shifts until we nail a more certain track by Sunday. Hopefully things do end up in our favor by then, but as of tonight I am even more concerned than I was this afternoon.


You know EWG...we don't agree very often...especially not in the winter forum...

But you have just said something I concur with 100%. :lol:

Models have a HARD time handling upper lows and the models are going to flip back and forth. I imagine they will move north again...especially since Erin isn't getting out of the way as progged. This starts a chain reaction in which the upper low slows and travels more west...which opens the door up further north.

It is all about the upper low...and the HWRF and the GFDL have been onto it for a while. Even the ETA sees where it is going. The GFS has a hard time with upper lows...hence the botched track as of late. If it can get a handle on it...it will come around.


So as things stand right now AFM give us your very early call as to where do you think Dean will end up?
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#7505 Postby Extremeweatherguy » Sat Aug 18, 2007 12:52 am

wow! AFM agrees with something I said? This has got to be a first. :lol:
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Re: Re:

#7506 Postby mahmoo » Sat Aug 18, 2007 12:52 am

I wish that were the TX/MX border. I'm sorry folks, but I just don't want to see a Cat 5 affect Houston like this. With all of the economic troubles lately, this could be the nail in the coffin for us in many ways. still a long time out...[/quote]

It's not something you recover from quickly.
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Re: Major Hurricane DEAN: (11PM page 192) Discussions, Analysis

#7507 Postby Matt-hurricanewatcher » Sat Aug 18, 2007 12:52 am

I don't believe its only 150 mph with the convertion of .9=159.39 mph for the surface. Also pressure on the drop soundes shown the 5 knot one of 927 millibars.
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#7508 Postby mgpetre » Sat Aug 18, 2007 12:53 am

I know no one cares where I think it will end up, but I say Corpus Christi and Houston is in for a very long and tumultuos week.
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Re: Major Hurricane DEAN: (11PM page 192) Discussions, Analysis

#7509 Postby WxGuy1 » Sat Aug 18, 2007 12:53 am

Matt-hurricanewatcher wrote:At flight level 154 knots=159.39 at the surface...That is closer to Emily was to cat5. I think she was around 158 mph surface winds.


I wouldn't worry about 2 mph differences. The FL*0.9 = sfc wind reduction is a very crude estimate. For all we know, the actual surface wind may be 130mph, or it may be 160mph. The 10% reduction (or assuming the surface wind is 90% of the flight-level wind) is very much a "rule of thumb", and some previous studies have shown that, on average, the surface winds in some hurricanes are only 60-75% of the 700mb flight-level wind (which would be 100-105 kts in this case). The vertical wind profile near the eyewall can very drastically from storm to storm. So again, I would round any surface reduction wind to the nearest 5 kts, and probably nearest x0 (100, 110, 120, etc) kts to account for the large uncertainty in the reduction factor. Granted, the use of the SFMR DOES help in estimating a proper reduction factor!

The eye temperature (at flight-level) is 20C, with an out-of-the-eyewall temperature of 12C (per latest VDM). The 8C temperature gradient across the eyewall is pretty good, though not historically great. In addition, the eye temp of 20C is still a good 10C below the measured 30C in the eye of Rita. Perhaps the size of the eye has an impact, but I would imagine that eye temperature can be used as a rough proxy for the intensity of inner-eye compensating subsidence and as a proxy for storm intensity. The more I think about it, the more I would expect the eye temperature to be a partial function of eye diameter too, but the point remains. Anyone happen to know the eye temperature from a Wilma VDM?

930mb seems pretty high for a Cat 5 hurricane. The 2am EDT may set the intensity at 130-135kts, thereby keeping Dean at Cat 4. I'd really like to see the SLP < 920mb to bring Dean up to a Cat 5. I also expect the windfield to continue to expand, and we may see an ERC in the next 18-24 hours. FWIW, my last view of the IR sat imagery shows that cloud tops aren't particularly cold, which also makes me a little hesitant to go to Cat 5 (when combined with the SLP data). It certainly is NOTHING like Wilma, which had a massive, massive area of extremely cold cloud tops from the eye outward to good ways. At any rate, the NHC will likely want more than one datum point to bring Dean to Cat 5. I think this will get folks in a tizzy, but I do think it'll be Cat 5 later today. I can't imagine how strong it'd be if it weren't for the dry air that has plagued the north and northwest sides of Dean for the past couple of days. Symmetry is important for such a hurricane, and dry air on one side of Dean doesn't help in the symmetry arena.

Jamaica is going to get hit hard. Very hard. If it takes a direct hit, we all better hope that Dean is undergoing an ERC at the time.
Last edited by WxGuy1 on Sat Aug 18, 2007 12:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Re:

#7510 Postby mempho » Sat Aug 18, 2007 12:53 am

mgpetre wrote:
KBBOCA wrote:Am I seeing things? This can't be right, can it?

The GFDL animation on W. Underground is showing Dean as staying at a Cat 5 from the Caribbean (i.e. about now!) all the way to landfall on the Mex/Tex border.

Has there ever been such a long-lived Cat 5???? This is crazy, right?
http://www.wunderground.com/tropical/tr ... 5d#a_topad



I wish that were the TX/MX border. I'm sorry folks, but I just don't want to see a Cat 5 affect Houston like this. With all of the economic troubles lately, this could be the nail in the coffin for us in many ways. still a long time out...


It's one model. It's a long way yet. It's not the apocalypse scenario...yet.
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Re:

#7511 Postby Aric Dunn » Sat Aug 18, 2007 12:53 am

fasterdisaster wrote:Why did they only up it to 150? Should at least be 155?


its just one of those things.. it may have been satellite ... or just they felt like waiting .. who knows.. it will probably be another post analysis thing
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Re:

#7512 Postby mahmoo » Sat Aug 18, 2007 12:54 am

Extremeweatherguy wrote:wow! AFM agrees with something I said? This has got to be a first. :lol:

...
I think you should get a 1,000 extra posts for that
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#7513 Postby KBBOCA » Sat Aug 18, 2007 12:54 am

Thanks Extreme, I corrected my post. The intensity had me so shocked I wasn't really paying attention to location.

And I should have also qualified my question as to longest-lived ATLANTIC cat 5 hurricane. I know the Pacific has had some amazingly long-lived monsters... like that one, forget the name, we watched hit Wake Island last year (or was it 2005?)
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#7514 Postby CrazyC83 » Sat Aug 18, 2007 12:54 am

I would have put it at 155 mph (135 kt) right now. I don't have enough confidence to call it a Cat 5, but that seems like a better estimate.
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#7515 Postby KBBOCA » Sat Aug 18, 2007 12:56 am

I realize it's one model. But it seems irresponsible for it to be posted like that on WUnderground without any disclaimer or explanation. I don't think there's ever been an Atlantic hurricane that has maintained the kind of intensity forecast by this GFDL run? It's way out there...
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Re:

#7516 Postby Innotech » Sat Aug 18, 2007 12:56 am

KBBOCA wrote:Am I seeing things? This can't be right, can it?

The GFDL animation on W. Underground is showing Dean as staying at a Cat 5 from the Caribbean (i.e. about now!) all the way to landfall on the Texas coast.

Has there ever been such a long-lived Cat 5???? This is crazy, right?
http://www.wunderground.com/tropical/tr ... 5d#a_topad

Those wind speeds are insane.


theres a particular phenomenon that is exceedingly rare but allows a cat 4 or 5 storm to maintain peak intensity for a long time. It is called an annular hurricane and its basically a perfectly round "donut" shaped storm with very little feeder bands or disruption. It requires absolutely perfect conditions to form and I dont think even Dean can manage that in the Caribbean. but its a Cat 5 no doubt about it. God help Jamaica. They are good people. I even lived there for 6 months of my life.
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Re: Hurricane DEAN: Global Models

#7517 Postby Clint_TX » Sat Aug 18, 2007 12:56 am

Nelson you sure are the taskmaster!
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Re: Major Hurricane DEAN: (11PM page 192) Discussions, Analysis

#7518 Postby Hurrilurker » Sat Aug 18, 2007 12:56 am

I wonder if the mountains of Hispaniola will disrupt the wind field a bit. On the current path, it'll be temporary, but there will be some interaction on the outside. Maybe enough to take the winds down a few mph as it heads into Jamaica? Hopefully.
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Matt-hurricanewatcher

Re: Major Hurricane DEAN: (11PM page 192) Discussions, Analysis

#7519 Postby Matt-hurricanewatcher » Sat Aug 18, 2007 12:57 am

If I remember right Rita was 150 knots at its peak. That could be part of the reason for the 10 degree warmer core?
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Re:

#7520 Postby fasterdisaster » Sat Aug 18, 2007 12:58 am

KBBOCA wrote:I realize it's one model. But it seems irresponsible for it to be posted like that on WUnderground without any disclaimer or explanation. I don't think there's ever been an Atlantic hurricane that has maintained the kind of intensity forecast by this GFDL run? It's way out there...


Ivan sort of did.
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