Ex Tropical Depression KAREN: Discussions & Images

Moderator: S2k Moderators

Message
Author
CrazyC83
Professional-Met
Professional-Met
Posts: 34002
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2006 11:57 pm
Location: Deep South, for the first time!

Re: Tropical Storm KAREN: CEN ATL: Discussion of Recon Data

#901 Postby CrazyC83 » Wed Sep 26, 2007 9:09 pm

cycloneye wrote:In summary Crazy,what was the highest wind data found in this mission?

Highest SFMR (surface) winds: 62 kt

Highest flight level winds: 69 kt (supports 62 kt at the surface)

My estimated intensity is 60 kt (although the NHC may upgrade it).
0 likes   

User avatar
Category 5
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 10074
Age: 35
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2007 10:00 pm
Location: New Brunswick, NJ
Contact:

Re: Tropical Storm KAREN: CEN ATL: Discussions & Images

#902 Postby Category 5 » Wed Sep 26, 2007 9:15 pm

Eye and eyewall structure trying to form.

Image
0 likes   

User avatar
cycloneye
Admin
Admin
Posts: 145323
Age: 68
Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2002 10:54 am
Location: San Juan, Puerto Rico

Re: Tropical Storm KAREN: CEN ATL: Discussion of Recon Data

#903 Postby cycloneye » Wed Sep 26, 2007 9:15 pm

As others haved said,a close call about upgrading or not.
0 likes   

JonathanBelles
Professional-Met
Professional-Met
Posts: 11430
Age: 35
Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2005 9:00 pm
Location: School: Florida State University (Tallahassee, FL) Home: St. Petersburg, Florida
Contact:

#904 Postby JonathanBelles » Wed Sep 26, 2007 9:18 pm

Thats not an eye!
0 likes   

User avatar
Category 5
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 10074
Age: 35
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2007 10:00 pm
Location: New Brunswick, NJ
Contact:

Re:

#905 Postby Category 5 » Wed Sep 26, 2007 9:20 pm

fact789 wrote:Thats not an eye!


I said trying.

It had a little one going earlier, it didn't hold up.
0 likes   

Matt-hurricanewatcher

Re: Tropical Storm KAREN: CEN ATL: Discussion of Recon Data

#906 Postby Matt-hurricanewatcher » Wed Sep 26, 2007 9:28 pm

Last night I knew it would have a 12 hour window to use the ULL to form a outflow channel. Now the shear is cutting into this system.
0 likes   

americanrebel

#907 Postby americanrebel » Wed Sep 26, 2007 9:42 pm

I guess everybody is sitting around for the newest numbers to come in, the quietest this place has been in a long time.
0 likes   

tolakram
Admin
Admin
Posts: 20009
Age: 62
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2006 8:23 pm
Location: Florence, KY (name is Mark)

Re: Re:

#908 Postby tolakram » Wed Sep 26, 2007 9:42 pm

Category 5 wrote:
fact789 wrote:Thats not an eye!


I said trying.

It had a little one going earlier, it didn't hold up.


I don't look at the AVN for structure at night, I look at the shortwave.

http://www.ssd.noaa.gov/goes/flt/t1/loop-ir2.html

The center is to the west of that convection and looks to be mostly exposed.
0 likes   

americanrebel

#909 Postby americanrebel » Wed Sep 26, 2007 9:44 pm

So what you are saying is the Center is around 13N and 46 W
0 likes   

Derek Ortt

Re: Tropical Storm KAREN: CEN ATL: Recon Obs

#910 Postby Derek Ortt » Wed Sep 26, 2007 9:46 pm

Since the mission is over, I'd like to pose a question that maybe Shannon could answer

Why is it that the Air Force does not deploy to Barbados to be able to catch these systems in the central Atlantic? Are there AF regulations that would not allow the AF to launch from Barbados asthe NOAA planes do? We can reach to about 43W from Barbados instead of the ~55W from St. Croix
0 likes   

User avatar
cycloneye
Admin
Admin
Posts: 145323
Age: 68
Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2002 10:54 am
Location: San Juan, Puerto Rico

Re: Tropical Storm KAREN: Central ATL: Advisories

#911 Postby cycloneye » Wed Sep 26, 2007 9:50 pm

636
WTNT32 KNHC 270249
TCPAT2
BULLETIN
TROPICAL STORM KAREN ADVISORY NUMBER 9
NWS TPC/NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER MIAMI FL AL122007
1100 PM AST WED SEP 26 2007

...KAREN JUST BELOW HURRICANE STRENGTH...

AT 1100 PM AST...0300Z...THE CENTER OF TROPICAL STORM KAREN WAS
LOCATED NEAR LATITUDE 13.0 NORTH...LONGITUDE 45.1 WEST OR ABOUT 1070
MILES...1720 KM...EAST OF THE WINDWARD ISLANDS.

KAREN IS MOVING TOWARD THE WEST-NORTHWEST NEAR 13 MPH...20 KM/HR...
AND THIS MOTION IS EXPECTED TO CONTINUE FOR THE NEXT 24 HOURS.

DATA FROM THE STEPPED FREQUENCY MICROWAVE RADIOMETER...SFMR...
INSTRUMENT ON BOARD THE NOAA HURRICANE HUNTER PLANE SHOW THAT
MAXIMUM SUSTAINED WINDS ARE NEAR 70 MPH...110 KM/HR...WITH HIGHER
GUSTS. LITTLE CHANGE IN STRENGTH IS FORECAST DURING THE NEXT 24
HOURS.

NOAA BUOY 41041 AND THE STEPPED FREQUENCY MICROWAVE RADIOMETER SHOW
THAT KAREN IS A VERY LARGE TROPICAL CYCLONE. TROPICAL STORM FORCE
WINDS EXTEND OUTWARD UP TO 205 MILES...335 KM FROM THE CENTER.

THE ESTIMATED MINIMUM CENTRAL PRESSURE FROM A NOAA HURRICANE HUNTER
PLANE IS 996 MB...29.41 INCHES.

REPEATING THE 1100 PM AST POSITION...13.0 N...45.1 W. MOVEMENT
TOWARD...WEST-NORTHWEST NEAR 13 MPH. MAXIMUM SUSTAINED WINDS...70
MPH. MINIMUM CENTRAL PRESSURE...996 MB.

THE NEXT ADVISORY WILL BE ISSUED BY THE NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER AT
500 AM AST.

$$
FORECASTER BLAKE

656
WTNT22 KNHC 270249
TCMAT2
TROPICAL STORM KAREN FORECAST/ADVISORY NUMBER 9
NWS TPC/NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER MIAMI FL AL122007
0300 UTC THU SEP 27 2007

TROPICAL STORM CENTER LOCATED NEAR 13.0N 45.1W AT 27/0300Z
POSITION ACCURATE WITHIN 20 NM

PRESENT MOVEMENT TOWARD THE WEST-NORTHWEST OR 300 DEGREES AT 12 KT

ESTIMATED MINIMUM CENTRAL PRESSURE 996 MB
MAX SUSTAINED WINDS 60 KT WITH GUSTS TO 75 KT.
50 KT.......150NE 105SE 25SW 90NW.
34 KT.......180NE 150SE 45SW 150NW.
12 FT SEAS..180NE 90SE 60SW 180NW.
WINDS AND SEAS VARY GREATLY IN EACH QUADRANT. RADII IN NAUTICAL
MILES ARE THE LARGEST RADII EXPECTED ANYWHERE IN THAT QUADRANT.

REPEAT...CENTER LOCATED NEAR 13.0N 45.1W AT 27/0300Z
AT 27/0000Z CENTER WAS LOCATED NEAR 12.8N 44.6W

FORECAST VALID 27/1200Z 13.9N 46.7W
MAX WIND 60 KT...GUSTS 75 KT.
50 KT...150NE 105SE 25SW 90NW.
34 KT...180NE 150SE 45SW 150NW.

FORECAST VALID 28/0000Z 15.2N 48.7W
MAX WIND 60 KT...GUSTS 75 KT.
50 KT...100NE 75SE 20SW 60NW.
34 KT...150NE 120SE 45SW 100NW.

FORECAST VALID 28/1200Z 16.5N 50.5W
MAX WIND 55 KT...GUSTS 65 KT.
50 KT... 75NE 60SE 0SW 45NW.
34 KT...120NE 90SE 45SW 75NW.

FORECAST VALID 29/0000Z 17.5N 51.9W
MAX WIND 50 KT...GUSTS 60 KT.
50 KT... 75NE 60SE 0SW 45NW.
34 KT...120NE 90SE 45SW 75NW.

FORECAST VALID 30/0000Z 19.4N 54.7W
MAX WIND 45 KT...GUSTS 55 KT.
34 KT...100NE 75SE 30SW 60NW.

EXTENDED OUTLOOK. NOTE...ERRORS FOR TRACK HAVE AVERAGED NEAR 225 NM
ON DAY 4 AND 300 NM ON DAY 5...AND FOR INTENSITY NEAR 20 KT EACH DAY

OUTLOOK VALID 01/0000Z 21.0N 57.0W
MAX WIND 45 KT...GUSTS 55 KT.

OUTLOOK VALID 02/0000Z 22.5N 58.5W
MAX WIND 45 KT...GUSTS 55 KT.

REQUEST FOR 3 HOURLY SHIP REPORTS WITHIN 300 MILES OF 13.0N 45.1W

NEXT ADVISORY AT 27/0900Z

$$
FORECASTER BLAKE

TCDAT2
TROPICAL STORM KAREN DISCUSSION NUMBER 9
NWS TPC/NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER MIAMI FL AL122007
1100 PM EDT WED SEP 26 2007

A NOAA HURRICANE HUNTER PLANE HAS BEEN CONDUCTING A RESEARCH MISSION
THIS EVENING AND HAS FOUND AN UNUSUAL WIND STRUCTURE WITH KAREN.
SFMR DATA SHOW THAT THE STORM HAS A VERY LARGE WIND FIELD...WITH
ONE PEAK IN SURFACE WINDS ABOUT 105 NM AWAY FROM THE CENTER AND
ANOTHER ONE AT A MORE TYPICAL DISTANCE. IN ADDITION...DROPSONDE AND
SFMR DATA SUGGEST THAT THE FLIGHT LEVEL CENTER IS DISPLACED TO THE
NORTH AND EAST OF THE SURFACE CENTER...LIKELY DUE TO SOUTHWESTERLY
WIND SHEAR. THE MAXIMUM FLIGHT LEVEL WIND REPORTED WAS 69 KT...WITH
A PEAK SURFACE VALUE OF 62 KT REPORTED TWICE...NOT QUITE HURRICANE
STRENGTH. HOWEVER...GIVEN THE DEGRADED SATELLITE APPEARANCE FROM
EARLIER TODAY...KAREN WAS ALMOST CERTAINLY A HURRICANE THEN...AND
THIS LIKELIHOOD MAY BE REFLECTED IN THE FINAL BEST TRACK FOR THE
SYSTEM. AT THIS TIME...THE INITIAL INTENSITY IS HELD AT 60 KT FOR
THIS ADVISORY.

MODERATE TO STRONG SOUTHWESTERLY SHEAR FROM THE MID-OCEANIC TROUGH
IS AFFECTING KAREN AND THIS SHEAR IS FORECAST TO PERSIST OR EVEN
INTENSIFY OVER THE NEXT SEVERAL DAYS. IT IS HARD TO FORECAST
ANYTHING BUT SLOW WEAKENING GIVEN SUCH AN UNFAVORABLE ENVIRONMENT
AHEAD OF THE STORM...AND KAREN'S CHANCE TO INTENSIFY HAS PROBABLY
ENDED. INITIALLY...MOST MODELS DO NOT WEAKEN THE SYSTEM VERY
MUCH...PERHAPS DUE TO THE LARGE STORM BEING ABLE TO MAINTAIN ITSELF
DESPITE THE SHEAR. EVENTUALLY...MOST INTENSITY GUIDANCE WEAKEN THE
SYSTEM...AND THE OFFICIAL FORECAST IS CLOSER TO THE HWRF/GFDL
MODELS THAN THE SHIPS MODEL. IT IS OF NOTE THAT THE GFDL EVEN
MAKES THIS SYSTEM A TROPICAL DEPRESSION BY THE END OF THE FORECAST.

MICROWAVE AND AIRCRAFT DATA HAVE PROVIDED A GOOD ESTIMATE OF THE
INITIAL MOTION...ABOUT 300/12. THIS GENERAL MOTION SHOULD CONTINUE
FOR THE NEXT DAY OR SO AS WEAK RIDGING PERSISTS TO THE NORTH OF THE
STORM. STEERING CURRENTS THEN WEAKEN AS A MIDDLE TO UPPER-LEVEL
TROUGH CREATES A WEAKNESS IN THE RIDGE. THE MODELS THAT HAVE A
STRONG...VERTICALLY-STACKED REPRESENTATION OF KAREN...E.G. THE
ECMWF/GFDN/HWRF/NOGAPS SOLUTIONS..SHOW THE STORM MOVING MORE TO THE
NORTHWEST OR NORTH-NORTHWEST IN RESPONSE TO THE TROUGH. HOWEVER
THE GFDL/GFS/UKMET MODELS GENERALLY HAVE A WEAKER STORM AT THAT
TIME...AND SHOW LITTLE REACTION TO THE TROUGH AND JUST SLOW THE
STORM AS IT ENTERS THE AREA OF LIGHTER STEERING CURRENTS. THE
OFFICIAL FORECAST FAVORS THE LEFTWARD SOLUTION AT THIS TIME AND IS
ADJUSTED WESTWARD OF THE PREVIOUS FORECAST.

THE WIND RADII WERE EXPANDED THANKS TO SFMR DATA...QUIKSCAT...AND
NOAA BUOY 41041.

FORECAST POSITIONS AND MAX WINDS

INITIAL 27/0300Z 13.0N 45.1W 60 KT
12HR VT 27/1200Z 13.9N 46.7W 60 KT
24HR VT 28/0000Z 15.2N 48.7W 60 KT
36HR VT 28/1200Z 16.5N 50.5W 55 KT
48HR VT 29/0000Z 17.5N 51.9W 50 KT
72HR VT 30/0000Z 19.4N 54.7W 45 KT
96HR VT 01/0000Z 21.0N 57.0W 45 KT
120HR VT 02/0000Z 22.5N 58.5W 45 KT

$$
FORECASTER BLAKE

0 likes   

User avatar
Evil Jeremy
S2K Supporter
S2K Supporter
Posts: 5463
Age: 32
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2006 2:10 pm
Location: Los Angeles, CA

#912 Postby Evil Jeremy » Wed Sep 26, 2007 9:52 pm

no upgrade. good choice in my opinion.

000
WTNT32 KNHC 270249
TCPAT2
BULLETIN
TROPICAL STORM KAREN ADVISORY NUMBER 9
NWS TPC/NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER MIAMI FL AL122007
1100 PM AST WED SEP 26 2007

...KAREN JUST BELOW HURRICANE STRENGTH...

AT 1100 PM AST...0300Z...THE CENTER OF TROPICAL STORM KAREN WAS
LOCATED NEAR LATITUDE 13.0 NORTH...LONGITUDE 45.1 WEST OR ABOUT 1070
MILES...1720 KM...EAST OF THE WINDWARD ISLANDS.

KAREN IS MOVING TOWARD THE WEST-NORTHWEST NEAR 13 MPH...20 KM/HR...
AND THIS MOTION IS EXPECTED TO CONTINUE FOR THE NEXT 24 HOURS.

DATA FROM THE STEPPED FREQUENCY MICROWAVE RADIOMETER...SFMR...
INSTRUMENT ON BOARD THE NOAA HURRICANE HUNTER PLANE SHOW THAT
MAXIMUM SUSTAINED WINDS ARE NEAR 70 MPH...110 KM/HR...WITH HIGHER
GUSTS. LITTLE CHANGE IN STRENGTH IS FORECAST DURING THE NEXT 24
HOURS.

NOAA BUOY 41041 AND THE STEPPED FREQUENCY MICROWAVE RADIOMETER SHOW
THAT KAREN IS A VERY LARGE TROPICAL CYCLONE. TROPICAL STORM FORCE
WINDS EXTEND OUTWARD UP TO 205 MILES...335 KM FROM THE CENTER.

THE ESTIMATED MINIMUM CENTRAL PRESSURE FROM A NOAA HURRICANE HUNTER
PLANE IS 996 MB...29.41 INCHES.

REPEATING THE 1100 PM AST POSITION...13.0 N...45.1 W. MOVEMENT
TOWARD...WEST-NORTHWEST NEAR 13 MPH. MAXIMUM SUSTAINED WINDS...70
MPH. MINIMUM CENTRAL PRESSURE...996 MB.

THE NEXT ADVISORY WILL BE ISSUED BY THE NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER AT
500 AM AST.

$$
FORECASTER BLAKE
0 likes   

Coredesat

#913 Postby Coredesat » Wed Sep 26, 2007 9:53 pm

I agree, since recon has found nothing that conclusively indicated that Karen is a hurricane at this point, although it is no longer forecast to become one.

The model runs are usually an indicator of what direction the NHC is headed, but aren't always. This is an example of that.
0 likes   

JonathanBelles
Professional-Met
Professional-Met
Posts: 11430
Age: 35
Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2005 9:00 pm
Location: School: Florida State University (Tallahassee, FL) Home: St. Petersburg, Florida
Contact:

#914 Postby JonathanBelles » Wed Sep 26, 2007 9:56 pm

...KAREN WAS ALMOST CERTAINLY A HURRICANE THEN...
0 likes   

Coredesat

#915 Postby Coredesat » Wed Sep 26, 2007 9:57 pm

Interesting to see a discussion hint at a post-storm upgrade. I do think that's likely at this point given Karen's appearance earlier.
0 likes   

User avatar
HURAKAN
Professional-Met
Professional-Met
Posts: 46086
Age: 38
Joined: Thu May 20, 2004 4:34 pm
Location: Key West, FL
Contact:

#916 Postby HURAKAN » Wed Sep 26, 2007 9:58 pm

I think we can say that so far 11/4/2!!!
0 likes   

tolakram
Admin
Admin
Posts: 20009
Age: 62
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2006 8:23 pm
Location: Florence, KY (name is Mark)

Re: Tropical Storm KAREN: CEN ATL: Discussions & Images

#917 Postby tolakram » Wed Sep 26, 2007 10:01 pm

This is one of the best discussions I've read in a long time, worth posting here IMO :)

000
WTNT42 KNHC 270250
TCDAT2
TROPICAL STORM KAREN DISCUSSION NUMBER 9
NWS TPC/NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER MIAMI FL AL122007
1100 PM EDT WED SEP 26 2007

A NOAA HURRICANE HUNTER PLANE HAS BEEN CONDUCTING A RESEARCH MISSION
THIS EVENING AND HAS FOUND AN UNUSUAL WIND STRUCTURE WITH KAREN.
SFMR DATA SHOW THAT THE STORM HAS A VERY LARGE WIND FIELD...WITH
ONE PEAK IN SURFACE WINDS ABOUT 105 NM AWAY FROM THE CENTER AND
ANOTHER ONE AT A MORE TYPICAL DISTANCE. IN ADDITION...DROPSONDE AND
SFMR DATA SUGGEST THAT THE FLIGHT LEVEL CENTER IS DISPLACED TO THE
NORTH AND EAST OF THE SURFACE CENTER...LIKELY DUE TO SOUTHWESTERLY
WIND SHEAR. THE MAXIMUM FLIGHT LEVEL WIND REPORTED WAS 69 KT...WITH
A PEAK SURFACE VALUE OF 62 KT REPORTED TWICE...NOT QUITE HURRICANE
STRENGTH. HOWEVER...GIVEN THE DEGRADED SATELLITE APPEARANCE FROM
EARLIER TODAY...KAREN WAS ALMOST CERTAINLY A HURRICANE THEN...AND
THIS LIKELIHOOD MAY BE REFLECTED IN THE FINAL BEST TRACK FOR THE
SYSTEM. AT THIS TIME...THE INITIAL INTENSITY IS HELD AT 60 KT FOR
THIS ADVISORY.

MODERATE TO STRONG SOUTHWESTERLY SHEAR FROM THE MID-OCEANIC TROUGH
IS AFFECTING KAREN AND THIS SHEAR IS FORECAST TO PERSIST OR EVEN
INTENSIFY OVER THE NEXT SEVERAL DAYS. IT IS HARD TO FORECAST
ANYTHING BUT SLOW WEAKENING GIVEN SUCH AN UNFAVORABLE ENVIRONMENT
AHEAD OF THE STORM...AND KAREN'S CHANCE TO INTENSIFY HAS PROBABLY
ENDED. INITIALLY...MOST MODELS DO NOT WEAKEN THE SYSTEM VERY
MUCH...PERHAPS DUE TO THE LARGE STORM BEING ABLE TO MAINTAIN ITSELF
DESPITE THE SHEAR. EVENTUALLY...MOST INTENSITY GUIDANCE WEAKEN THE
SYSTEM...AND THE OFFICIAL FORECAST IS CLOSER TO THE HWRF/GFDL
MODELS THAN THE SHIPS MODEL. IT IS OF NOTE THAT THE GFDL EVEN
MAKES THIS SYSTEM A TROPICAL DEPRESSION BY THE END OF THE FORECAST.

MICROWAVE AND AIRCRAFT DATA HAVE PROVIDED A GOOD ESTIMATE OF THE
INITIAL MOTION...ABOUT 300/12. THIS GENERAL MOTION SHOULD CONTINUE
FOR THE NEXT DAY OR SO AS WEAK RIDGING PERSISTS TO THE NORTH OF THE
STORM. STEERING CURRENTS THEN WEAKEN AS A MIDDLE TO UPPER-LEVEL
TROUGH CREATES A WEAKNESS IN THE RIDGE. THE MODELS THAT HAVE A
STRONG...VERTICALLY-STACKED REPRESENTATION OF KAREN...E.G. THE
ECMWF/GFDN/HWRF/NOGAPS SOLUTIONS..SHOW THE STORM MOVING MORE TO THE
NORTHWEST OR NORTH-NORTHWEST IN RESPONSE TO THE TROUGH. HOWEVER
THE GFDL/GFS/UKMET MODELS GENERALLY HAVE A WEAKER STORM AT THAT
TIME...AND SHOW LITTLE REACTION TO THE TROUGH AND JUST SLOW THE
STORM AS IT ENTERS THE AREA OF LIGHTER STEERING CURRENTS. THE
OFFICIAL FORECAST FAVORS THE LEFTWARD SOLUTION AT THIS TIME AND IS
ADJUSTED WESTWARD OF THE PREVIOUS FORECAST.

THE WIND RADII WERE EXPANDED THANKS TO SFMR DATA...QUIKSCAT...AND
NOAA BUOY 41041.

FORECAST POSITIONS AND MAX WINDS

INITIAL 27/0300Z 13.0N 45.1W 60 KT
12HR VT 27/1200Z 13.9N 46.7W 60 KT
24HR VT 28/0000Z 15.2N 48.7W 60 KT
36HR VT 28/1200Z 16.5N 50.5W 55 KT
48HR VT 29/0000Z 17.5N 51.9W 50 KT
72HR VT 30/0000Z 19.4N 54.7W 45 KT
96HR VT 01/0000Z 21.0N 57.0W 45 KT
120HR VT 02/0000Z 22.5N 58.5W 45 KT

$$
FORECASTER BLAKE
0 likes   

CrazyC83
Professional-Met
Professional-Met
Posts: 34002
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2006 11:57 pm
Location: Deep South, for the first time!

#918 Postby CrazyC83 » Wed Sep 26, 2007 10:04 pm

And they are right; I'm not sure who decided to initiate the models at 65 kt.
0 likes   

americanrebel

#919 Postby americanrebel » Wed Sep 26, 2007 10:06 pm

If I read that right, if Karen continues to slowly decline in strength, then it could scoot W and not make the northerly turn that some of the models say it should do. If I read this correct what kind of track does this put the storm on, Carribean, Florida Keys, EC, Bermuda? Just wondering.
0 likes   

RL3AO
Moderator-Pro Met
Moderator-Pro Met
Posts: 16308
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2007 10:03 pm
Location: NC

#920 Postby RL3AO » Wed Sep 26, 2007 10:07 pm

It looks like it will be upgraded post-season if it doesn't strengthen any more operationally.
0 likes   


Return to “2007”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests