ATL GUSTAV: Tropical Depression - Discussion

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soonertwister
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Re: Cat. 4 Hurricane Gustav in Gulf of Mexico

#7681 Postby soonertwister » Sat Aug 30, 2008 10:54 pm

HDGator wrote:
Ixolib wrote:In terms of surge potential:

Katrina was a cat 5/4 in the Gulf and was HUGE. Widespread surge.
Camille was a cat 5/4 in the Gulf and was SMALL. Comparatively smaller surge.

How does Gustav's size - or potential size - compare to Camille and Katrina?

Small and tight or huge and wide?????

Wasn't it Katrina's overall size that caused the historical surge issue in MS?


It's pretty odd to see Camille referred to as SMALL and Comparatively smaller... but understanding what you went through with Katrina I can see the comparison.

I believe that you have hit the nail on the head regarding judging the potential surge impact of Gustav. I agree with you that the combination of the size and intensity combines to create the worse impacts. It will be interesting to compare over the next 24-36 hours how the size and intensity of the windfield for Gustav compares with Katrina. That will probably have more bearing on the eventual surge that is seen at landfall rather than the actual landfall intensity. As we saw with Katrina, a late weakening didn't have a corresponding reduction in the surge impacts.

What tools do we have available to judge these developments over the next 24-36 hours?


I'd say by monitoring data buoy readings as some distance from Gustav. That should give a pretty good predictive measure based upon winds speeds and wave heights. The actual surge will be achieved by the squeezing of all that water in motion between the winds of Gustav and the coast, except that even a sharp dropoff in wind speed late will have little effect or surge. Surge subsides quite a few hours behind drops in intensity of major hurricanes.
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Re: Cat. 4 Hurricane Gustav in Gulf of Mexico

#7682 Postby superfly » Sat Aug 30, 2008 10:54 pm

RL3AO wrote:
superfly wrote:The southern eyewall is barely hanging on looking at radar and there is dry air all over the system right now. It could be attenuation, but doesn't seem like it to me.


There is no dry air. There might be some southerly shear, but there is no dry air entrainment.


There's quite a bit of dry air according to both Key West and Cuban radar.

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Re: Re:

#7683 Postby 6SpeedTA95 » Sat Aug 30, 2008 10:55 pm

cheezyWXguy wrote:Just wait.

I never said it wouldn't strengthen, the reason the outflow is tightening up is because its being rapidly destroyed on the west side of the storm. Having said that the storm looks to be reorganizing a bit but again the WV while stout is showing errosion and penetration of dry air due to the shearing on the west side of the storm.
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Re: Re:

#7684 Postby ConvergenceZone » Sat Aug 30, 2008 10:55 pm

The outter bands on the west side of the storm are contracting because of the wind shear. It looks rather unimpressive on the WV loop compared with earlier today.


Wouldn't it be something if we woke up tomorrow and the storm looked like an absolute mess, really dismantled with more shear than excpected, and with no signs of organizing?? , hehe...While I don't think that will happen, ya never know... There was a storm, I think it was a few years ago(the name escapes me) that entered the gulf and suppose to have been a horrible storm, and conditions in the gulf did a number on the storm that just weren't expected, and the storm didn't really amount to much... I'll look through my archives to see if I can find it.
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Re: Cat. 4 Hurricane Gustav in Gulf of Mexico

#7685 Postby PTPatrick » Sat Aug 30, 2008 10:56 pm

That was Lili...IF ONLY this thing could pull a Lili.
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Re: Cat. 4 Hurricane Gustav in Gulf of Mexico

#7686 Postby HDGator » Sat Aug 30, 2008 10:57 pm

jasons wrote:
HDGator wrote:It's pretty odd to see Camille referred to as SMALL and Comparatively smaller... but understanding what you went through with Katrina I can see the comparison.


Camille was a compact hurricane, and one reason why it was able to make LF as a Cat. 5.


Yes, exactly! And as a Cat 5 at landfall its corresponding surge impacts became a high water benchmark that all others were compared to. I don't think that many expected a Cat 3 at landfall to compare in surge impact but the size and sustained windfield of Katrina showed that it could be surpassed.
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Re: Re:

#7687 Postby 6SpeedTA95 » Sat Aug 30, 2008 10:57 pm

ConvergenceZone wrote:
The outter bands on the west side of the storm are contracting because of the wind shear. It looks rather unimpressive on the WV loop compared with earlier today.


Wouldn't it be something if we woke up tomorrow and the storm looked like an absolute mess, really dismantled with more shear than excpected, and with no signs of organizing?? , hehe...While I don't think that will happen, ya never know... There was a storm, I think it was a few years ago(the name escapes me) that entered the gulf and suppose to have been a horrible storm, and conditions in the gulf did a number on the storm that just weren't expected, and the storm didn't really amount to much... I'll look through my archives to see if I can find it.

That would be really good...but it does seem unlikely.
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Re: Cat. 4 Hurricane Gustav in Gulf of Mexico

#7688 Postby tallywx » Sat Aug 30, 2008 10:57 pm

Meteorologist on WWL said it would take a 100-200 mile shift east from the current NHC track to see "catastrophic" damage in New Orleans. How is he getting that? The track as it stands is only like 60 miles west of NO.
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#7689 Postby Scorpion » Sat Aug 30, 2008 10:58 pm

It's sure falling apart now..

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Re: Cat. 4 Hurricane Gustav in Gulf of Mexico

#7690 Postby RL3AO » Sat Aug 30, 2008 10:58 pm

tallywx wrote:Meteorologist on WWL said it would take a 100-200 mile shift east from the current NHC track to see "catastrophic" damage in New Orleans. How is he getting that? The track as it stands is only like 60 miles west of NO.


Are you serious? He acually said that?
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Re: Cat. 4 Hurricane Gustav in Gulf of Mexico

#7691 Postby 6SpeedTA95 » Sat Aug 30, 2008 10:59 pm

HDGator wrote:
jasons wrote:
HDGator wrote:It's pretty odd to see Camille referred to as SMALL and Comparatively smaller... but understanding what you went through with Katrina I can see the comparison.


Camille was a compact hurricane, and one reason why it was able to make LF as a Cat. 5.


Yes, exactly! And as a Cat 5 at landfall its corresponding surge impacts became a high water benchmark that all others were compared to. I don't think that many expected a Cat 3 at landfall to compare in surge impact but the size and sustained windfield of Katrina showed that it could be surpassed.

But one thing people forget is the surge is dictated by the storms strength at its peak even if that peak was 24 hours before landfall. Katrina as we all remember was a very strong cat5 and as a result had a cat5 surge even though she came ashore as a rapidly weakening cat3.
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#7692 Postby Harry Cane » Sat Aug 30, 2008 11:00 pm

We should spare a moment for the people of Cuba who not onbly have to put up with daily hardship because of a criminal regime, but also with the forces of nature.
Viva Cuba Libre!!
Thank you
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Re:

#7693 Postby 6SpeedTA95 » Sat Aug 30, 2008 11:00 pm

Scorpion wrote:It's sure falling apart now..

Image

I think given the fact it just passed over land and is being hit pretty hard on the west side that its still pretty well organized.
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Re: Cat. 4 Hurricane Gustav in Gulf of Mexico

#7694 Postby CYCLONE MIKE » Sat Aug 30, 2008 11:00 pm

I want to get peoples opinions on this. I live in Ascension Parish which is just south of Baton Rouge. Anyway our local tv met said we should only experience 35-40 mph sustained winds with gusts reaching 60. Seems pretty low considering how close the center of Gustav will pass, especially if he comes in 50 or so miles further east which then the eye would pass right over me. To help out the I live about 90 miles due north of Cocodrie(as close to coast as can get) which is 30 miles south of Houma
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Re:

#7695 Postby mvtrucking » Sat Aug 30, 2008 11:01 pm

Scorpion wrote:It's sure falling apart now..

Image


Any pro mets out there still that can chime in? With a 1/4 of the storm still over
land, I guess it should be decreasing a bit?
Last edited by mvtrucking on Sat Aug 30, 2008 11:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re:

#7696 Postby Category 5 » Sat Aug 30, 2008 11:01 pm

Scorpion wrote:It's sure falling apart now..

Image


Dennis did this too. It took some time to ramp back up.
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Re: Cat. 4 Hurricane Gustav in Gulf of Mexico

#7697 Postby tolakram » Sat Aug 30, 2008 11:02 pm

Key West experiencing some rough weather.

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#7698 Postby jasons2k » Sat Aug 30, 2008 11:02 pm

People, the talk of dry air and shear is going overboard.

The trough to its west is finally moving out and if anything this may enhance outflow tomorrow. Sad to say, but this is destined to be a Cat 5 and I see no reason why it won't still be a Cat. 4 at landfall unless something really dramatic and unforseen happens.
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Re: Cat. 4 Hurricane Gustav in Gulf of Mexico

#7699 Postby physicx07 » Sat Aug 30, 2008 11:02 pm

tallywx wrote:Meteorologist on WWL said it would take a 100-200 mile shift east from the current NHC track to see "catastrophic" damage in New Orleans. How is he getting that? The track as it stands is only like 60 miles west of NO.


Yeah, I agree with you, that makes no sense. A landfall from the SE just slightly north of the mouth of the Miss. would be horrible, and that's only about 60 miles off from west to east (or actually more like 40 if you go directly perpendicular to the projected path near landfall.
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Re: Re:

#7700 Postby Ixolib » Sat Aug 30, 2008 11:03 pm

dhweather wrote:
Ixolib wrote:
dhweather wrote:People that line in the area from the mouth of the Mississippi to Pass Christian know they are prone to huge storm surges due to the geography of the area. Once the SE winds start pushing water up in the area, the only place it can go is inland.
Hey DH - Good to see you again!! Been wondering where you've been but Hurrycane filled us in.
Let's not forget those east of PC who too (self included!!) found out what a huge storm surge can do. I was really hoping Katrina was a once-in-a-lifetime event - at least for our neck of the woods. Let's hope this isn't a repeat.......... Don't think most (again, self included) on the MGC could stand another this soon.
hey hey hey!!
Man, I'm praying its not, but things are not looking good. I just have a feeling that the eastern side of the envelope the NHC has is it. (this is not an official forecast and do not treat it as such). Regardless, the Labor Day hurricane of 2008 is going to be bad.

You got that right!! I remember a time when we all thought the Labor Day hurricane of 1985 was enough. This'll potentially put that one to shame...

Surely everyone's seen this memorable shot of Elena - the Labor Day Storm of 1985...
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