ATL: INVEST 98L - DISCUSSION

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Re: ATL: INVEST 98L - DISCUSSION

#61 Postby Ivanhater » Wed Jul 21, 2010 7:05 pm

KWT wrote:
wxman57 wrote:Definitely a better upper air pattern than 97L. Hard to believe 97L has a better chance of developing within 48hrs. This system may be over water for 24-36 hours. Plenty of time to become a 50-60 kt TS. I'd go maybe 60-70% on it developing into a TS before it moves inland south of Tampico tomorrow night or Friday morning.


Without a doubt BUT it is a large wave with a huge gyre...its just like a WPAC system and they tend to take 36-48hrs from this stage to make it though when they do they tend to go up quickly. Therefore it could be 50-50 as to whether it gets there in time IMO.

I do however see no reason why we can't get a TD/TS out of it, we've seen plenty of systems in this position get going.


Something I've noticed KWT, even with the Wpac type circulations there is land around this which would help tighten up the circulation, unlike in the WPAC. Kind of like what happened to Alex.
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#62 Postby KWT » Wed Jul 21, 2010 7:07 pm

Totally agree Ivanhater, thats why I'm on board with development, just not sure it'll have the time to get to TS strength. If this one slows right down near the coast then Wxman57 may well be right

Certainly more likely then 97L in the short term...and yweah there are some comprasions between this and 97L and Jose and Katrina... :roll:
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Re: ATL: INVEST 98L - DISCUSSION

#63 Postby cycloneye » Wed Jul 21, 2010 7:51 pm

00z Best Track

AL, 98, 2010072200, , BEST, 0, 202N, 935W, 20, 1008, DB

ftp://ftp.tpc.ncep.noaa.gov/atcf/tcweb/ ... 010.invest
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Re: ATL: INVEST 98L - DISCUSSION

#64 Postby clfenwi » Wed Jul 21, 2010 8:06 pm

Hmm. I was looking at area surface obs to guess what they would go with for a pressure in best track. Minatitlan, 141 nautical miles to the southwest of the 00z best track position, has 1008 millibars for its most recent ob.

MMMT 212353Z 00000KT 6SM OVC040 26/26 A2978 RMK SLP162 55057 957 8/5//=



2010.07.21 2353 UTC
Wind Calm
Visibility 6 mile(s)
Sky conditions overcast
Temperature 78 F (26 C)
Dew Point 78 F (26 C)
Relative Humidity 100%
Pressure (altimeter) 29.78 in. Hg (1008 hPa)
Pressure tendency 0.17 inches (5.7 hPa) lower than three hours ago

Unfortunately, it appears this station only operates doing the daytime, so this is probably the last ob. Veracruz, which is further west, does appear to be 24h, though.

Edit: At least one more ob from there

MMMT 220105Z 00000KT 1/2SM RA OVC002 26/26 A2982 RMK 8/9/
Wind Calm
Visibility 1/2 mile(s)
Sky conditions overcast
Weather Rain
Temperature 78 F (26 C)
Dew Point 78 F (26 C)
Relative Humidity 100%
Pressure (altimeter) 29.82 in. Hg (1009 hPa)
---------------------------------------------------

Latest from Veracruz

MMVR 220046Z 33015KT 7SM BKN090 OVC250 28/23 A2984 RMK 8/037 HZY DSNT CB SE AND TCU W BINOVC



2010.07.22 0046 UTC
Wind from the NNW (330 degrees) at 17 MPH (15 KT)
Visibility 7 mile(s)
Sky conditions overcast
Weather Cumulonimbus clouds, towering cumulus clouds observed
Temperature 82 F (28 C)
Dew Point 73 F (23 C)
Relative Humidity 74%
Pressure (altimeter) 29.84 in. Hg (1010 hPa)
Last edited by clfenwi on Wed Jul 21, 2010 8:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#65 Postby HURAKAN » Wed Jul 21, 2010 8:25 pm

Image

Likes 98L
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Re: ATL: INVEST 98L - DISCUSSION

#66 Postby tailgater » Wed Jul 21, 2010 8:36 pm

Villahermosa , Mexico
(MMVA) 18-00N 092-49W

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Conditions at Jul 21, 2010 - 08:45 PM EDTJul 21, 2010 - 07:45 PM CDTJul 21, 2010 - 06:45 PM MDTJul 21, 2010 - 05:45 PM PDTJul 21, 2010 - 04:45 PM ADTJul 21, 2010 - 03:45 PM HDT
2010.07.22 0045 UTC
Wind from the W (260 degrees) at 12 MPH (10 KT)
Visibility 7 mile(s)
Sky conditions overcast
Weather Cumulonimbus clouds observed
Temperature 78 F (26 C)
Dew Point 75 F (24 C)
Relative Humidity 88%
Pressure (altimeter) 29.77 in. Hg (1008 hPa)
ob MMVA 220045Z 26010KT 7SM SCT008 BKN016CB OVC060 26/24 A2977 RMK 8/36/ PCPN SW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: ATL: INVEST 98L - DISCUSSION

#67 Postby wxsouth » Wed Jul 21, 2010 8:59 pm

clfenwi wrote:Hmm. I was looking at area surface obs to guess what they would go with for a pressure in best track. Minatitlan, 141 nautical miles to the southwest of the 00z best track position, has 1008 millibars for its most recent ob.

MMMT 212353Z 00000KT 6SM OVC040 26/26 A2978 RMK SLP162 55057 957 8/5//=



2010.07.21 2353 UTC
Wind Calm
Visibility 6 mile(s)
Sky conditions overcast
Temperature 78 F (26 C)
Dew Point 78 F (26 C)
Relative Humidity 100%
Pressure (altimeter) 29.78 in. Hg (1008 hPa)
Pressure tendency 0.17 inches (5.7 hPa) lower than three hours ago

Unfortunately, it appears this station only operates doing the daytime, so this is probably the last ob. Veracruz, which is further west, does appear to be 24h, though.

Edit: At least one more ob from there

MMMT 220105Z 00000KT 1/2SM RA OVC002 26/26 A2982 RMK 8/9/
Wind Calm
Visibility 1/2 mile(s)
Sky conditions overcast
Weather Rain
Temperature 78 F (26 C)
Dew Point 78 F (26 C)
Relative Humidity 100%
Pressure (altimeter) 29.82 in. Hg (1009 hPa)
---------------------------------------------------

Latest from Veracruz

MMVR 220046Z 33015KT 7SM BKN090 OVC250 28/23 A2984 RMK 8/037 HZY DSNT CB SE AND TCU W BINOVC



2010.07.22 0046 UTC
Wind from the NNW (330 degrees) at 17 MPH (15 KT)
Visibility 7 mile(s)
Sky conditions overcast
Weather Cumulonimbus clouds, towering cumulus clouds observed
Temperature 82 F (28 C)
Dew Point 73 F (23 C)
Relative Humidity 74%
Pressure (altimeter) 29.84 in. Hg (1010 hPa)



Be careful what you interpret as sfc pressure. In the above decoded obs, the Pressure given is the altimeter setting, which is much different than sea level pressure...especially for stations above sea level. The obs from Minatitlan actually has sea level pressure of 1016.2mb (SLP162).
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Re: ATL: INVEST 98L - DISCUSSION

#68 Postby Ikester » Wed Jul 21, 2010 9:44 pm

I'm putting my money on no development from either system. I think there is a decent possibility of going into August with no B storm. Just my opinion.
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#69 Postby HURAKAN » Wed Jul 21, 2010 10:46 pm

Image

Latest
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Re: ATL: INVEST 98L - DISCUSSION

#70 Postby dixiebreeze » Wed Jul 21, 2010 11:05 pm

207 miles SE Brownsville, Texas:

Conditions at 42002 as of
(9:50 pm CDT on 07/21/2010)
0250 GMT on 07/22/2010:
Wind Speed (WSPD): 17.5 kts


Previous observations
MM DD TIME
(CDT) WDIR WSPD
kts GST
kts WVHT
ft DPD
sec APD
sec MWD PRES
in PTDY
in ATMP
°F WTMP
°F DEWP
°F SAL
psu VIS
nmi TIDE
ft
07 21 6:50 pm - 13.6 15.5 - - - - 29.90 - 84.4 85.6 - - - -
07 21 5:50 pm - 13.6 - - - - - 29.91 -0.04 84.2 - - - - -
07 21 4:50 pm - 13.6 - - - - - - - - - - - - -
07 21 2:50 pm - 1.9 3.9 - - - - 29.96 - 82.6 85.6 - - - -
07 21 1:50 pm - 7.8 9.7 - - - - 29.96 - 81.1 85.6 - - - -
07 21 12:00 pm - 11.7 13.6 - - - - 29.96 - 84.6 85.8 - - - -
07 21 3:50 am - 15.5 - - - - - - - - - - - - -

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: ATL: INVEST 98L - DISCUSSION

#71 Postby lrak » Wed Jul 21, 2010 11:10 pm

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Re: ATL: INVEST 98L - DISCUSSION

#72 Postby dixiebreeze » Wed Jul 21, 2010 11:13 pm

Offshore Padre Island:

Conditions at 42045 as of
(3:30 pm CDT)
2030 GMT on 07/21/2010:

Note: This report is more than two hours old
Wind Direction (WDIR): ENE ( 60 deg true )
Wind Speed (WSPD): 9.7 kts
Wind Gust (GST): 11.7 kts
Atmospheric Pressure (PRES): 29.95 in
Water Temperature (WTMP): 84.7 °F
Combined plot of Wind Speed, Gust, and Air Pressure


Previous observations
MM DD TIME
(CDT) WDIR WSPD
kts GST
kts WVHT
ft DPD
sec APD
sec MWD PRES
in PTDY
in ATMP
°F WTMP
°F DEWP
°F SAL
psu VIS
nmi TIDE
ft
07 21 3:00 pm NE 9.7 13.6 - - - - 29.96 - - 84.7 - - - -
07 21 2:30 pm NE 9.7 11.7 - - - - 29.98 - - 84.7 - - - -
07 21 2:00 pm ENE 7.8 9.7 - - - - 30.00 - - 84.7 - - - -
07 21 1:30 pm ENE 7.8 9.7 - - - - 30.00 - - 84.7 - - - -
07 21 1:00 pm ENE 11.7 15.5 - - - - 30.03 - - 84.7 - - - -
07 21 12:30 pm ENE 17.5 23.3 - - - - 30.03 - - 84.7 - - - -
07 21 12:00 pm NE 11.7 15.5 - - - - 30.02 - - 84.7 - - - -
07 21 11:30 am NE 7.8 9.7 - - - - 30.01 - - 84.9 - - - -
07 21 11:00 am NE 7.8 7.8 - - - - 30.01 - - 84.7 - - - -
07 21 3:30 am E 7.8 9.7 - - - - 29.94 - - 84.7 - - - -
07 21 3:00 am ESE 9.7 11.7 - - - - 29.94 - -
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#73 Postby ConvergenceZone » Wed Jul 21, 2010 11:15 pm

I know we are only into late July, but so far outside of Alex, everything that has had potential tropical wise has looked absolutely pathetic....
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Re: ATL: INVEST 98L - DISCUSSION

#74 Postby Macrocane » Wed Jul 21, 2010 11:31 pm

:uarrow: I don't agree, There was an invest (I think that it was 92L) that lookes almost like a depression in the central Atlantic between Cape Verde and the Caribbean, also there was the other little invest (I think it was 95L) that looked very good and the NHC even jumped from yellow to red code but at the end it was not upgraded.
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Re: ATL: INVEST 98L - DISCUSSION

#75 Postby dixiebreeze » Wed Jul 21, 2010 11:39 pm

98L firing up more, too, right now:

http://www.ssd.noaa.gov/goes/flt/t2/flash-avn.html
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Re: ATL: INVEST 98L - DISCUSSION

#76 Postby ConvergenceZone » Wed Jul 21, 2010 11:52 pm

Macrocane wrote::uarrow: I don't agree, There was an invest (I think that it was 92L) that lookes almost like a depression in the central Atlantic between Cape Verde and the Caribbean, also there was the other little invest (I think it was 95L) that looked very good and the NHC even jumped from yellow to red code but at the end it was not upgraded.



The thing I'm trying to say is, there's too many "almosts"
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Re: ATL: INVEST 98L - DISCUSSION

#77 Postby Macrocane » Wed Jul 21, 2010 11:55 pm

In that case I agree :wink:

Let's see what D-max do with 98L, for some reason most of the invests this season have looked better during the day hours than during night hours but maybe this time will be different.
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Re: ATL: INVEST 98L - DISCUSSION

#78 Postby clfenwi » Wed Jul 21, 2010 11:58 pm

Buoy and surface obs kind of paint the picture already, but here's what windsat showed on its pass ~5 hours ago. Unfortunately, NRL's image hasn't updated, so we have to deal with the split along the 20N line.

Image

Image
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Re: ATL: INVEST 98L - DISCUSSION

#79 Postby supercane » Thu Jul 22, 2010 12:36 am

:uarrow: Looking at above windsat the NE winds ahead of and SE winds behind around 93.5 W seem to define a sharp trough axis with gusty winds but no definite westerly wind to suggest a closed circulation. The 00Z TAFB analysis does analyze a 1010 mb low in the BOC.
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#80 Postby chzzdekr81 » Thu Jul 22, 2010 12:40 am

000
ABNT20 KNHC 220538
TWOAT
TROPICAL WEATHER OUTLOOK
NWS TPC/NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER MIAMI FL
200 AM EDT THU JUL 22 2010

FOR THE NORTH ATLANTIC...CARIBBEAN SEA AND THE GULF OF MEXICO...

SHOWERS AND THUNDERSTORMS ASSOCIATED WITH A TROUGH OF LOW PRESSURE
OVER THE SOUTHEASTERN BAHAMAS HAVE INCREASED DURING THE PAST
SEVERAL HOURS. HOWEVER...THE THUNDERSTORM ACTIVITY REMAINS
DISPLACED TO THE EAST OF THE TROUGH DUE TO STRONG UPPER-LEVEL
WINDS. THE UPPER-LEVEL ENVIRONMENT COULD BECOME MARGINALLY
FAVORABLE FOR DEVELOPMENT DURING THE NEXT DAY OR SO. LOCALLY HEAVY
SHOWERS AND STRONG GUSTY WINDS ASSOCIATED WITH THIS DISTURBANCE
WILL SPREAD OVER THE BAHAMAS...PORTIONS OF CUBA AND SOUTHERN
FLORIDA DURING THE NEXT COUPLE OF DAYS AS THE SYSTEM MOVES WESTWARD
OR WEST-NORTHWESTWARD AT 10 TO 15 MPH. THERE IS A MEDIUM
CHANCE...40 PERCENT...OF THIS SYSTEM BECOMING A TROPICAL CYCLONE
DURING THE NEXT 48 HOURS.

SHOWER AND THUNDERSTORM ACTIVITY HAS BECOME A LITTLE MORE
CONCENTRATED IN ASSOCIATION WITH A BROAD AREA OF LOW PRESSURE
OVER THE BAY OF CAMPECHE. ENVIRONMENTAL CONDITIONS APPEAR TO BE
CONDUCIVE FOR SOME DEVELOPMENT OF THE LOW AS IT MOVES WESTWARD OR
WEST-NORTHWESTWARD AT 10 TO 15 MPH. THERE IS A MEDIUM CHANCE...40
PERCENT...OF THIS SYSTEM BECOMING A TROPICAL CYCLONE BEFORE IT
REACHES THE COAST OF MEXICO IN A DAY OR TWO.

ELSEWHERE...TROPICAL CYCLONE FORMATION IS NOT EXPECTED DURING THE
NEXT 48 HOURS.

$$
FORECASTER BROWN
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