ATL: ARLENE - Remnants

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Florida1118

Re: ATL: INVEST 95L - Discussion

#101 Postby Florida1118 » Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:54 am

brunota2003 wrote:
micktooth wrote:I really have to wonder why they are sending out Recon for this. What real information will be gained and how many tax payer dollars will be going into this flight??? :roll:

This flight will provide us data from a system that is organizing...data we hardly ever get. I think it is pretty important.
I agree. They are the ones with Doctorates and degrees in meteorology, so I just going to say that Im sure they know what their doing. Given I think they'll find little today, but who knows, Im not a met :cheesy: I dont think this is Arlene...just not getting the feeling from it. It could be like TD2 last year though.

And here's Dr.Jeff Masters take on 95L:
Tropical disturbance 95L headed towards Mexico

Heavy thunderstorm activity is increasing over the Gulf of Mexico's Bay of Campeche due to a tropical wave (Invest 95L), moving west-northwest at 5 - 10 mph towards the coast of Northeast Mexico. Satellite loops show that the thunderstorms are currently poorly organized, and there is no sign of a surface circulation. Mexican radar out of Alvarado also shows little organization and no spiral banding. Wind shear has fallen by 5 knots to 20 - 25 knots over the past day, and is predicted to continue to fall over the next two days. This should allow 95L to continue to organize, and the Hurricane Hunters are scheduled to visit the storm Wednesday afternoon to see if a tropical depression is forming. Several reliable computer models are predicting that 95L could become a tropical depression or weak tropical storm before making landfall. Landfall will probably occur on Mexico's Bay of Campeche coast several hundred miles south of the Texas border on Wednesday night. NHC is giving the system a 50% chance of developing into a tropical depression by Thursday. Development will be hindered by a large region of dry air to the west, associated with the great 2011 Texas-Mexico drought. However, the topography surrounding the Bay of Campeche tends to boost counter-clockwise air flow, enabling systems there to spin up faster than any other portion of the Atlantic.

There is a strong ridge of high pressure over the Gulf, which should act to keep 95L moving west-northwest or west, with impacts limited to Mexico and perhaps extreme South Texas. Rainfall amounts of 1 - 2 inches are possible over Brownsville, Texas on Wednesday. The main danger from the storm for Mexico is likely to be heavy rains of 4 - 8 inches, but the rain is likely to be more a blessing than a danger. Mexico is experiencing its worst drought in 70 years over 40% of the country, and wild fires have burned 500,000 acres in northern regions near the U.S. border.


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#102 Postby Dave » Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:57 am

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#103 Postby Dave » Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:02 pm

000
URNT15 KNHC 281700
AF308 01AAA INVEST HDOB 08 20110628
165030 2408N 09345W 3927 07754 0439 -166 -231 133016 017 035 000 00
165100 2405N 09344W 3923 07760 0440 -165 -227 134016 017 035 000 00
165130 2403N 09344W 3929 07744 0438 -165 -230 137018 018 034 001 00
165200 2400N 09343W 3924 07754 0438 -165 -234 137017 018 035 001 00
165230 2358N 09343W 3925 07757 0438 -164 -231 139017 017 035 000 01
165300 2355N 09342W 3929 07749 0437 -163 -241 138017 017 035 000 00
165330 2353N 09342W 3926 07752 0437 -162 -234 142017 017 035 001 00
165400 2350N 09342W 3925 07751 0437 -165 -234 148016 017 035 001 00
165430 2347N 09341W 3925 07755 0437 -165 -231 152016 016 035 000 00
165500 2345N 09341W 3926 07754 0437 -162 -241 157016 016 035 001 00
165530 2342N 09340W 3925 07756 0438 -160 -232 161014 015 035 001 01
165600 2340N 09340W 3934 07739 0438 -156 -230 161015 015 034 001 01
165630 2338N 09340W 3924 07754 0437 -156 -226 145013 015 035 001 00
165700 2336N 09339W 3927 07748 0435 -160 -227 129013 014 035 000 00
165730 2333N 09339W 3926 07744 0435 -163 -218 120014 015 035 000 00
165800 2331N 09338W 3926 07752 0435 -164 -210 128014 014 034 001 01
165830 2329N 09338W 3926 07751 0434 -160 -209 127013 015 036 002 00
165900 2327N 09338W 3926 07758 0436 -160 -206 123016 016 040 004 00
165930 2325N 09337W 3926 07752 0437 -157 -206 134013 014 040 004 01
170000 2323N 09337W 3926 07755 0438 -154 -196 114013 015 038 000 00
$$
;
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Re: ATL: INVEST 95L - Discussion

#104 Postby piggy » Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:04 pm

However much the recon costs, the cost of evacuating the coastline in dollars per mile can easily surpass the cost
of a recon flight, if this invest were to become a hurricane and head more towards the Texas coast. From an economic standpoint
the extra accuracy of the recon data towards predicting the path of a storm far outweighs the costs.
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Re: ATL: INVEST 95L - Discussion

#105 Postby Frank2 » Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:06 pm

My guess is that NHC will make this a TD either later tonight or tomorrow morning - definitely it has a broad circulation and a lot of convection, and for certain there have been TD's that did not have as much as this does...

As others have said, it appears that this system (as a TD or not) will move into Mexico tomorrow...

Here in Southern Florida we are getting numerous showers and thunderstorms at this time - rainy season is here, thankfully...

Frank
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#106 Postby Dave » Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:07 pm

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Re: ATL: INVEST 95L - Discussion

#107 Postby tolakram » Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:11 pm

They've enabled high capture rate on GOES E.

http://wwwghcc.msfc.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/ge ... mframes=20

Looks like a circulation to me, a solid wall of storms on the east side.
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#108 Postby Dave » Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:12 pm

000
URNT15 KNHC 281711
AF308 01AAA INVEST HDOB 09 20110628
170030 2321N 09337W 3926 07751 0435 -158 -200 097018 019 037 000 00
170100 2319N 09336W 3925 07756 0436 -159 -197 092016 017 036 001 00
170130 2317N 09336W 3927 07749 0436 -157 -200 090016 017 036 001 00
170200 2314N 09336W 3925 07756 0436 -157 -190 087013 014 034 000 01
170230 2312N 09335W 3927 07751 0436 -155 -195 107012 013 034 000 00
170300 2310N 09335W 3929 07749 0436 -155 -185 106009 011 035 001 00
170330 2308N 09334W 3926 07753 0436 -156 -192 100011 013 035 001 00
170400 2306N 09334W 3925 07757 0435 -155 -182 093011 011 036 003 00
170430 2304N 09334W 3927 07741 0432 -151 -180 065016 018 035 004 00
170500 2302N 09333W 3927 07747 0432 -150 -180 076017 019 035 004 00
170530 2300N 09333W 3923 07754 0431 -149 -171 083013 014 034 001 01
170600 2258N 09333W 3924 07743 0428 -150 -171 089009 010 034 001 01
170630 2256N 09332W 3923 07750 0431 -159 -163 165006 008 033 001 00
170700 2253N 09332W 3925 07746 0430 -160 -167 142009 010 033 001 01
170730 2251N 09332W 3927 07741 0430 -155 -181 153007 008 033 000 00
170800 2249N 09331W 4025 07560 0420 -143 -174 141009 010 032 000 00
170830 2247N 09331W 4176 07277 0398 -125 -182 137007 008 032 002 03
170900 2244N 09330W 4464 06767 0360 -099 -190 075009 011 /// /// 03
170930 2242N 09330W 4768 06249 0326 -070 -177 080012 014 /// /// 05
171000 2239N 09330W 5115 05695 0295 -037 -173 062010 011 /// /// 03
$$
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Re: ATL: INVEST 95L - Discussion

#109 Postby Florida1118 » Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:15 pm

Well if it does get upgraded, it'll go straight to Arlene with winds of 35-40kts found from RECON
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ATL: ARLENE - Recon Discussion

#110 Postby tolakram » Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:16 pm

I'm hoping they make a west to east pass through the biggest convection on the east side of the circulation. Check out the loop in the 95 discussion thread, always fun to see development in action.
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Re: ATL: INVEST 95L - Discussion

#111 Postby HURAKAN » Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:16 pm

Florida1118 wrote:Well if it does get upgraded, it'll go straight to Arlene with winds of 35-40kts found from RECON


The plane is now descending, ignore those readings
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#112 Postby Dave » Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:17 pm

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Re: ATL: INVEST 95L - Discussion

#113 Postby Florida1118 » Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:18 pm

HURAKAN wrote:
Florida1118 wrote:Well if it does get upgraded, it'll go straight to Arlene with winds of 35-40kts found from RECON


The plane is now descending, ignore those readings

Erg I forgot they were kinda thousands of feet above surface winds :oops: sorry
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#114 Postby Dave » Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:18 pm

URNT11 KNHC 281706
97779 17004 31233 93609 73200 10019 66702 /5761
RMK AF308 01AAA INVEST OB 02
SWS = 35 KTS
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Re: ATL: INVEST 95L - Discussion

#115 Postby HURAKAN » Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:19 pm

Florida1118 wrote:
HURAKAN wrote:
Florida1118 wrote:Well if it does get upgraded, it'll go straight to Arlene with winds of 35-40kts found from RECON


The plane is now descending, ignore those readings

Erg I forgot they were kinda thousands of feet above surface winds :oops: sorry


Happens to the best of us!! Not a problem
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#116 Postby Dave » Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:22 pm

Atlantic USAF High-Density Observations
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


000
URNT15 KNHC 281720
AF308 01AAA INVEST HDOB 10 20110628
171030 2237N 09329W 5516 05097 0084 -010 -150 044015 015 /// /// 05
171100 2234N 09329W 5860 04594 0087 +014 -122 050012 012 /// /// 05
171130 2231N 09328W 6211 04150 0117 +036 -097 058016 017 /// /// 03
171200 2231N 09328W 6211 04150 0121 +058 -078 072015 015 /// /// 03
171230 2226N 09327W 6966 03195 0117 +087 -058 077014 015 /// /// 05
171300 2223N 09327W 7387 02695 0111 +112 -052 068014 014 /// /// 03
171330 2221N 09326W 7831 02213 0121 +136 -028 058016 017 /// /// 03
171400 2218N 09326W 8290 01725 0123 +159 -054 065018 020 /// /// 05
171430 2216N 09326W 8701 01306 0118 +182 +015 080016 016 /// /// 03
171500 2214N 09325W 9055 00949 0102 +198 +054 098017 018 031 000 03
171530 2212N 09325W 9104 00897 0093 +200 +067 094018 018 030 000 00
171600 2210N 09325W 9096 00898 0084 +203 +081 095020 021 030 000 00
171630 2208N 09324W 9078 00912 0083 +197 +082 092020 021 031 000 01
171700 2207N 09324W 9083 00907 0084 +191 +094 096020 020 031 000 00
171730 2205N 09324W 9077 00911 0083 +194 +097 092021 021 031 000 00
171800 2204N 09323W 9077 00912 0082 +196 +099 090020 020 031 000 03
171830 2202N 09323W 9080 00909 0080 +200 +105 093020 021 031 000 00
171900 2201N 09323W 9078 00910 0080 +198 +111 093019 020 030 000 00
171930 2159N 09322W 9080 00910 0081 +195 +112 087019 019 031 001 00
172000 2158N 09322W 9077 00910 0081 +195 +111 086019 020 031 000 01
$$
;


Operational Altitude...
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#117 Postby Dave » Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:24 pm

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Re: ATL: INVEST 95L - Discussion

#118 Postby cyclogenesis » Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:29 pm

June 28, 2011
this Tuesday
12:00 Noon






Data that I've been collecting from various microwave sensors this morning, together with an improvement in the structured cloud pattern of satellite imagery early this Tuesday morning is indicating to me that an overall better organizational trend to this disturbed weather over the Bay of Campeche has begun. The cloud pattern has become somewhat more circular in appearance.


Now first, a look at your Dvorak Satellite intensity estimates from 1215Z earlier this Tuesday morning, June 28, shows that the disturbed weather has made it on the map with its first T-number of a 1.0, on the chart. This is notch #1, the bottom-level ranking, on the scale. This correlates with an estimated mean wind speed of 25 kts / 29 mph, at 715 AM this morning.


Further to this, microwave sounding data, also from earlier this Tuesday morning June 28, showed an estimated maximum wind speed of 28 kts, ALTHOUGH these winds were far-removed from the center, to the North-Northeast of the center. An ASCAT pass from last night, (which was the last one available), also confirmed the higher belt of winds near the surface (~25 kts) to be bounded between 22° North to 26° North latitudes, with only lighter winds near the center of the surface low pressure area, indicated much further South in your Bay of Campeche. That was from late last night.


Since then, cyclogenesis here, has been checking on surface weather observations for you. Although I don't speak-up often enough, but while I'm on the subject here, yesterday evening your Carnival Triumph cruise ship reported an East wind of 33 kts, and 2 nights ago, your Carnival Escstasy cruise ship reported a wind of 30 kts, so I was able to duplicate the validity of these observations, at the surface. (Why not report current ships right now??) Because there aren't any ship reports, anywhere close in the area, to give right now, that's why.


In looking at buoy #42055, aka, your Bay of Campeche buoy, there's been a 24-hour pressure change of -0.05" or from 1010.5 mb, down to 1008.8 mb; NOT really impressive, but is showing that pressures have fallen over the past 24-hours. As you'd expect, the wind speeds there have also begun INCREASING earlier this morning, whereby I've observed sustained winds up to 23 kts sustained, with a PEAK wind gust to 27 kts from the East. Water temperatures are holding around 84°. ...And your significant wave heights have INCREASED to 11 ft out there at that buoy late this morning.


While all these observations from buoys, ship, and satellite are interesting, what remains is the $64,000 question which is this--->> Is there a verifiable, distinct & CONSISTENT, (not transient), rotary circulation developed at the surface yet?? There's never a dense enough network of buoys & ship reports to confirm, and with the loss of QuikScat & ASCAT passes come once in a blue moon, it really requires the need for an Air Force Reserve Unit Recon. aircraft to investigate today. I don't think this should wait, given the improving satellite imagery appearances today.


Now, I am using some other experimental techniques for which one of them indicates a weak circulation having already started this morning, but with only a 5 - 15 kt radius of winds near the immediate center. Farther out, some 191 statute miles North-Northeast of the low pressure-centered area miles away, was purportedly where the maximum 25 - 30 kt winds were located, from an experimental 12Z analysis (7 AM CDT) this Tuesday morning. Last night's ASCAT was also able to verify a similar location & wind, as well.


Shear. Current shear late this morning is shown to be Westerly about 18 - 20 kts using a blend between satellite shear & model-analyzed shear, this Tuesday morning, June 28th, from a Westerly direction.


About the forecast shear.... The GFS is the most generous out of the 4 models I reviewed in creating a most favorable, reduced-shear environment over the next day or two. The other 3 models I reviewed, including your statistical-dynamical one, maintains about 14 - 20 kts of shearing (from the West), for the next 24-hours, between Tuesday morning, and early Wednesday morning. After Wednesday morning, forecast shear will really come way down, below 10 kts, and more deepening (intensifying) can occur then, at which case it'll probably at least graduate to minimal tropical storm strength, before crossing the coast Wednesday night.


It is appearing from satellite-derived upper winds late this Tuesday morning, that an upper-air high (anti-cyclone), is beginning to get established over the Southwest Gulf of Mexico. If so, then the GFS may be the only correct solution in reduced levels of wind shear. A tropical cyclone can still develop in the face of 15 kts of shear, but the rate of deepening (intensification), will be slower. Upper divergence has been status quo over the past 6 hours though, and have not really increased yet, either. On the last calculation, RI is only showing a 15% chance, low as I'd expect it to be for ONLY an area of disturbed weather.


I see a continuation of plenty of moisture supply forecast amongst the Southwestern Gulf area during the next 2 days with both GFS & EMX indicating mean RH levels 850 - 700 in excess of 70% RH. PW sounding data this morning shows widespread PW's exceeding 2.10" in the SW Gulf.


It does appear on high-definition, visible satellite imagery late this morning, that a broader, loose & somewhat elongated circulation is developing just North of 20.0° North, 93.5° West, at 11 AM, Tuesday morning, June 28, and stretched a bit Southwestward from there, using visible observations from the TCU field, in the visible channel. Anvil blow-off isn't showing quite as severe the shear there was present yesterday on Monday, however.


Because of last night's ASCAT & this morning's new experimental techniques I'm using, I question, though whether the winds near this broad, elongated loose center of circulation are that strong though. I think not; ||| Not just yet. However, it is ENCOURAGING to see showers developing closer to the center of the low pressure area, just to the East of it, and now new activity in the NW quadrant. This is one of the necessary & critical criteria for a tropical cyclone to DEEPEN (strengthen), is having showers organize & SUSTAIN themselves, for prolonged time periods, in the proximity of the center. So, this is a start. We'll see if they are persistent, which is critical.


In truth, the statistical-dynamical models forecast an increase to a tropical depression / borderline minimal tropical storm status in the next 36 hours, somewhere's close-up to 38 mph. Interestingly, the EMX 850 mb wind forecast, when reduced from that level to the surface, using a reduction ratio, yielded very similar output as well, about a full day ago.


Bottom line is this--->> If this were me making the call, I think the aircraft should be released this afternoon to investigate, given the improved satellite signature in its overall cloud pattern, and because of what visible imagery, microwave sounding data, and the fact that recent shower development is currently taking place near the low's center late this morning. Further to this, it's already been classified on the Dvorak scale with its first output reading at 1.0, finally graduating on to the scale. Waiting another day, I think, would be bad politics for Mexico, considering this is forecast to move ashore by Wednesday night, and wouldn't give them enough time to ready themselves, having to play catch-up, because of another tardy warning delay waiting upon aircraft to confirm. Even if it's not up-to-par yet, they can at least gather some important wind & pressure data, along with areal extent of winds.


For the record your NHC described the following low pressure area from this Tuesday morning, at 7 AM CDT.


Center estimated near

19.8° North
92.7° West -->> at 7 AM

Estimated movement off to the West-Northwest at 6 MPH (285°)

Estimated wind at 7 AM, 25 kts (29 mph).

Estimated minimum pressure 1006 mb / 29.71"







-- cyclogenesis
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#119 Postby Dave » Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:32 pm

000
URNT15 KNHC 281730
AF308 01AAA INVEST HDOB 11 20110628
172030 2156N 09321W 9080 00908 0080 +195 +115 084021 022 030 000 00
172100 2155N 09321W 9082 00907 0080 +196 +123 081022 023 031 000 00
172130 2153N 09321W 9074 00913 0079 +195 +119 082019 020 031 000 03
172200 2151N 09321W 9078 00908 0078 +198 +116 080018 019 030 000 00
172230 2150N 09321W 9086 00902 0075 +200 +119 083018 019 030 000 00
172300 2148N 09320W 9076 00910 0077 +198 +126 081017 017 031 000 00
172330 2147N 09320W 9082 00904 0075 +199 +127 079016 016 029 000 00
172400 2145N 09320W 9081 00904 0074 +202 +127 078015 015 029 000 00
172430 2144N 09320W 9081 00904 0075 +200 +128 078014 015 025 000 00
172500 2142N 09319W 9082 00904 0075 +202 +128 083014 014 024 000 00
172530 2140N 09319W 9077 00906 0073 +203 +128 084013 014 024 000 01
172600 2139N 09319W 9077 00906 0073 +203 +132 090012 012 025 000 00
172630 2137N 09318W 9082 00902 0073 +200 +131 094012 013 025 000 00
172700 2136N 09318W 9080 00905 0073 +200 +134 086011 012 025 000 00
172730 2134N 09318W 9081 00903 0072 +200 +132 079012 012 025 000 00
172800 2132N 09317W 9078 00905 0072 +200 +136 079014 014 026 000 00
172830 2131N 09317W 9081 00902 0071 +200 +138 078012 013 026 000 00
172900 2129N 09317W 9078 00904 0072 +200 +139 082015 017 026 000 00
172930 2128N 09317W 9080 00903 0071 +201 +138 081018 018 026 000 00
173000 2126N 09316W 9077 00905 0069 +205 +144 081018 018 026 000 00
$$
;
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#120 Postby CrazyC83 » Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:37 pm

At the level they are flying, 75% is the best guess for the flight level to surface conversion.
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