ATL: ISAAC - Post-Tropical - Discussion

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Re: ATL: ISAAC - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#1721 Postby ConvergenceZone » Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:19 pm

Blown Away wrote:IMO, Isaac looking more and more like a system starting to pull together. The exact center will work out and wouldn't be surprised if we see steady strengtening over the next 36 hours.



blownaway,
not to take away from anything you are saying, but how many times have we heard that
before from others during the last 2 days? I'm in a believe when when it happens
mode, and I'm sure others are too.

It's like... "It's coming together"
then 2 hours later... "it's looking awful"
then 2 hours later "it's coming together"... etc etc etc...

I'm sure you get my drift :)
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#1722 Postby Shuriken » Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:23 pm

I'm seeing hints of a mid-level circulation on radar associated with the strongest and most enduring blob of convection on the west side of the storm (now at approximately 15N/63W in the pic below); if that burrows down to the surface and takes over, there's a better chance of farthest-left tracks verifying.

Image
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#1723 Postby KWT » Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:23 pm

It has the look of a TS, but the lower level is a bit of a pig. The one thing I've learned though is that often if they are pigs at the lower level but convectivly impressive, they usually go on to become hurricanes down the line at some point.
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Re: ATL: ISAAC - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#1724 Postby Blown Away » Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:24 pm

ConvergenceZone wrote:
Blown Away wrote:IMO, Isaac looking more and more like a system starting to pull together. The exact center will work out and wouldn't be surprised if we see steady strengtening over the next 36 hours.



blownaway,
not to take away from anything you are saying, but how many times have we heard that
before from others during the last 2 days? I'm in a believe when when it happens
mode, and I'm sure others are too.

It's like... "It's coming together"
then 2 hours later... "it's looking awful"
then 2 hours later "it's coming together"... etc etc etc...

I'm sure you get my drift :)


Yeah, I get your drift, but ask yourself if the overall presentation has looked better than it does at this moment? Nice cyclonic rotation around a broad area, convection is finally rotating around the NE part of the circulation, and persistent deep convection around a broad center. IMO, some get to crazy over 16.0 or 15.5, it's not that important at this stage when a weak TS is trying to get it's act together. :D
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Re: ATL: ISAAC - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#1725 Postby cfltrib » Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:25 pm

Looks to me like the 2 hot towers are dancing slowly around each other and keep switching primary strength. As one comes up the northeast quadrant, it loses strength as it pulls air in from the SAL. Meanwhile, the remaining Vortex gains strength in the southern quadrants.
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Re: ATL: ISAAC - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#1726 Postby Blinhart » Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:25 pm

Almost looks like 2 separate storms performing some type of Fujiwara (sp?) effect going on, with the two centers fighting with each other what is the likely hood of this moving much further South and West of the future forecast points.
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#1727 Postby KWT » Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:29 pm

Shuriken, yeah I spotted tha MLC circulating a good 6hrs ago, pretty clear shear is still on this system, but I do think its only a matter of time before that starts to ease off. Slowing down will help it as well obviously!
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#1728 Postby KBBOCA » Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:29 pm

I thought this satellite image from Storm Carib was one of the more interesting storm shots I've seen -
the Lesser Antilles sandwiched between the two centers of convection of Isaac!

Image
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#1729 Postby HurricaneBrain » Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:31 pm

If this consolidates, we're going to have a huge system.
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Re: ATL: ISAAC - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#1730 Postby sammy126 » Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:32 pm

I want to thank everyone for answering my questions. I have another one. how often do the hurricane track models update and where can i view them?
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#1731 Postby KBBOCA » Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:33 pm

By the way, the link for Storm Carib's satellite imagery page is here.
http://stormcarib.com/goes.htm

The image I posted above can be animated, and there are some other excellent views there.
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Re: ATL: ISAAC - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#1732 Postby ozonepete » Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:33 pm

Blown Away wrote: Yeah, I get your drift, but ask yourself if the overall presentation has looked better than it does at this moment? Nice cyclonic rotation around a broad area, convection is finally rotating around the NE part of the circulation, and persistent deep convection around a broad center. IMO, some get to crazy over 16.0 or 15.5, it's not that important at this stage when a weak TS is trying to get it's act together. :D


I totally agree. I think a lot of people are jumping the gun because it has been expected to be pretty strong by the time it gets to the central or west Caribbean. It is behaving pretty much the way the NHC has expected so far.
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Re: ATL: ISAAC - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#1733 Postby SoupBone » Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:34 pm

ConvergenceZone wrote:
Blown Away wrote:IMO, Isaac looking more and more like a system starting to pull together. The exact center will work out and wouldn't be surprised if we see steady strengtening over the next 36 hours.



It's like... "It's coming together"
then 2 hours later... "it's looking awful"
then 2 hours later "it's coming together"... etc etc etc...


This has been the theme of the 2012 season. The key for Isaac will be Hispaniola and his proximity to it. I think that's something we can all agree on.
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Re: ATL: ISAAC - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#1734 Postby Big O » Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:34 pm

A well-respected met on another board posted the following:

"My take is that if the Euro indeed has the mid-level ridging properly modeled out in time, then solutions further west than even what the Euro (and every other model out there) have currently, are NOT off the table.....It's not like we have a massively digging trough that turns Isaac.  And with the ongoing drought feeding back into the seasonal propensity to hold strongly onto ridging across the deep south, I wouldn't overlook the potential of Isaac to head back westward, once/if he reaches the GOM."

Bottom line is that track is not set in stone. While I believe the track into the eastern GOM is the most likely to verify, one cannot discount the possibility of a further west option at this time.
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Re: ATL: ISAAC - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#1735 Postby ozonepete » Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:34 pm

sammy126 wrote:I want to thank everyone for answering my questions. I have another one. how often do the hurricane track models update and where can i view them?


We have a really good models thread right here on storm2k. Look at this page and click on the Isaac models entry. Not only do we show all of the models but the discussion will help you learn how they work and which ones we trust the most.

viewforum.php?f=59
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Re: ATL: ISAAC - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#1736 Postby ozonepete » Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:37 pm

ozonepete wrote:
sammy126 wrote:I want to thank everyone for answering my questions. I have another one. how often do the hurricane track models update and where can i view them?


We have a really good models thread right here on storm2k. Look at this page and click on the Isaac models entry. Not only do we show all of the models but the discussion will help you learn how they work and which ones we trust the most.

viewforum.php?f=59


If you want to look at some model output on your own, these are two good sites:

http://www.ral.ucar.edu/guidance/realtime/current/

http://moe.met.fsu.edu/tcgengifs/
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Re: ATL: ISAAC - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#1737 Postby cheezyWXguy » Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:37 pm

SoupBone wrote:
ConvergenceZone wrote:
Blown Away wrote:IMO, Isaac looking more and more like a system starting to pull together. The exact center will work out and wouldn't be surprised if we see steady strengtening over the next 36 hours.



It's like... "It's coming together"
then 2 hours later... "it's looking awful"
then 2 hours later "it's coming together"... etc etc etc...


This has been the theme of the 2012 season. The key for Isaac will be Hispaniola and his proximity to it. I think that's something we can all agree on.

this is the theme of every season. To have a headache-less transition from TD to major hurricane is not as common as you'd think...
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Re: ATL: ISAAC - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#1738 Postby Big O » Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:41 pm

Big O wrote:A well-respected met on another board posted the following:

"My take is that if the Euro indeed has the mid-level ridging properly modeled out in time, then solutions further west than even what the Euro (and every other model out there) have currently, are NOT off the table.....It's not like we have a massively digging trough that turns Isaac.  And with the ongoing drought feeding back into the seasonal propensity to hold strongly onto ridging across the deep south, I wouldn't overlook the potential of Isaac to head back westward, once/if he reaches the GOM."

Bottom line is that track is not set in stone. While I believe the track into the eastern GOM is the most likely to verify, one cannot discount the possibility of a further west option at this time.


Another met on the other board seems to agree. Here is his/her reply post:

"Definitely agreed with this. If Issac can stay far enough south, it might even feel the effects of the "death ridge" near the southern Plains, and turn much more westerly towards Texas, even. The fact that all the data seems to stall Issac once it hits land is indicative of the lack of a steering flow. There is a weak trough that enters the midwest, which combined with a potential weakness in the Atlantic ridge that Issac could run into once it hits the Gulf, that could turn him northward towards the western Florida Panhandle. But if that is not enough, Issac could bend well back to the west, and hopefully relieve some drought conditions in the southern Plains.

I can see a Track "A" scenario with Issac approaching the western FLA Panhandle area, and a track "B" scenario of it bending much further west. Not sure I see an in-between scenario at this time."
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Re: ATL: ISAAC - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#1739 Postby KWT » Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:42 pm

ozonepete wrote:
I totally agree. I think a lot of people are jumping the gun because it has been expected to be pretty strong by the time it gets to the central or west Caribbean. It is behaving pretty much the way the NHC has expected so far.


Spot on, indeed it is stronger than some models were suggesting it would be at this point.

Going to be important to watch what the ULL does over the next 12hrs, if Issac starts to pull away from it thats when we'll see this system start to take off...models seem pretty keen on that happening within the next 12-24hrs.
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Re: ATL: ISAAC - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#1740 Postby KBBOCA » Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:42 pm

sammy126 wrote:I want to thank everyone for answering my questions. I have another one. how often do the hurricane track models update and where can i view them?


Hi Sammy, I *THINK* the models run every six hours at 00z (8 pm Eastern) 06z (2 a.m.) 12z (8 a.m) and 18z (2 p.m.), but I could be wrong.

I can't give you the links to view the results of individual models and don't read model charts or data very easily myself, but to see the so-called "spaghetti chart" which shows the latest models, the South Florida Water Management (SFWMD) site is excellent. Here's the link:

http://www.sfwmd.gov/portal/page/portal ... el%20plots

For other links to model links, click on the small rectangular box at the top of this page which says model sites.

WeatherUnderground's (Wunderground) Tropical page is also full of excellent resources:
http://www.wunderground.com/tropical/?index_region=at

Here's the models page there
http://www.wunderground.com/tropical/tr ... model.html

The trick is learning which models tend to be reliable. The NHC often will state in their discussion which models seem to be best at tracking a given storm.

THE NHC track is what you MOST need to pay attention to.
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