ATL: ERNESTO - Post-Tropical

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Re: ATL: ERNESTO - Tropical Storm

#2441 Postby jinftl » Sat Aug 04, 2012 2:04 pm

As always, Dr. Masters brings a voice of reason to all of his discussions - he does this for a living and he is saying it is just not possible to know yet what will be in terms of intensity, track, etc etc etc.

We've seen already with Ernesto that satellite images are not tools for gauging intensification, esp with developing storms. Fluctuations in pressure and wind speed are normal in any system and there are so many factors at play within the interal workings of the storm that could be important long before any trough could steer him north or not. Wobbles one way or another or a pressure drop or rise of a few mb today just isn't going to be able to give us clues to what happens in a 6-8+ days with this storm...the margin of error is hundreds of miles beyond 5 days. Thankfully, no area of the U.S. is in the forecast cone, and probably wouldn't be for a few days more, so a mb here or 5 mph there when the storm is 1700 miles from New Orleans and 2000 miles from Houston and Brownsville isn't going to give anything but a headache!

We could be doing this late next week into next weekend with this storm so folks don't burn out now when the time for micro-monitoring is days off potentially! That said, I will check back on Ernesto in the morning! LOL


Stormlover2012 wrote:This is the new update from jeff masters:

Forecast for Ernesto
Ernesto continues to be a major challenge to forecast. Despite the seemingly favorable conditions for intensification expected today through Tuesday, with low wind shear, a moister environment, and increasing heat energy in the ocean, many of our top computer models refuse to predict intensification, and in fact, weaken the storm. Of the major dynamical models NHC uses operationally--the ECMWF, GFS, NOGAPS, UKMET, GFDL, and HWRF--only the NOGAPS and GFDL show Ernesto reaching hurricane strength in the Caribbean. The ECMWF dissipates the storm. However, some of the best statistical models, such as the LGEM and SHIPS, do show Ernesto becoming a Category 1 or 2 hurricane in the Caribbean. The official NHC intensity forecast of a Category 1 hurricane between Jamaica and Mexico's Yucatan Peninsula is a reasonable compromise, but the uncertainty in this is high. It would not be a surprise to see Ernesto mysteriously degrade, or undergo rapid intensification into a Category 2 hurricane off the coast of the Yucatan. Such is the state of modern hurricane intensity forecasting. Given that we don't have a very good idea of how strong Ernesto will become, making an accurate track forecast is hard. A stronger Ernesto will be more likely to feel the influence of a trough of low pressure moving to the north of the storm on Tuesday, which would pull the storm to the northwest into the Gulf of Mexico. This would likely result in a landfall in the U.S. A weaker Ernesto is more likely to head almost due west, resulting in a landfall Wednesday in Belize or Mexico's Yucatan Peninsula. This is the more likely solution, given the recent behavior of the storm.
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Re: Re:

#2442 Postby Javlin » Sat Aug 04, 2012 2:04 pm

Shuriken wrote:
Shuriken wrote:Unofficial prediction: Ernesto will not markedly intensify until passing the Caribbean pinch-point at 72W; it will be consolidating during this time, however; and there will be a slight northward kink in the track as the LLC tucks under the convective core (which appears be heading toward the center of the pinch-point gap). RI will onset Sunday, and Ernesto will quickly become a large, major hurricane south of (and uncomfortably close to) Jamaica thereafter.
I change my mind; after analysis of 1km zooms, I no longer view the pinch-point (or diurnals) as a factor, and therefore now expect Ernesto to accelerate the power-up phase it has already entered in the last few hours.

A milky-white veil of 200mb exhaust now dominates the system (see my most recent posts with 1km zoom pictures).

Disclaimer in sig.


I am kinda with ya on the more N'thly componet just by the cloud structure ATM(expanding N/W) looks like the high to the N is easing abit.Pretty much an amatuer opinion though.

http://www.goes.noaa.gov/HURRLOOPS/huirloop.html
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#2443 Postby Lane » Sat Aug 04, 2012 2:05 pm

I do have a question about pressure drops and wind speed now as well. Last year Irene had very low pressure but wind speed was not high. I do kno it was a very large storm but still doesn't that debunk any pressure=wind speed variable?
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Re:

#2444 Postby ROCK » Sat Aug 04, 2012 2:07 pm

[quote="Rgv20"]Majority of the 12zGFS Ensembles show Ernesto making 2 landfalls in Mexico..

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h62/c ... s.pngquote]



thats to be expected with the 12Z GFS run.....man I remember the days where most of this was clear cut and dry.....now we have all kinds of variables to work with.
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Re: ATL: ERNESTO - Tropical Storm

#2445 Postby Nederlander » Sat Aug 04, 2012 2:09 pm

Yea I noticed the same thing. He has also stayed to the north of the center projected path since this mornings coordinates. He could wobble west again and get back in line with it, so I wouldn't pay too much attention unless it becomes a pattern, in which Jamaica would take a serious hit. So basically the end result will most likely be one of two scenarios: weaker storm stays south to MX, stronger storm heads to the weakness (TX,LA,MS).. and I can't stress the importance of trying your best not to wobble-watch..

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Last edited by Nederlander on Sat Aug 04, 2012 2:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re:

#2446 Postby JamesCaneTracker » Sat Aug 04, 2012 2:10 pm

Lane wrote:I do have a question about pressure drops and wind speed now as well. Last year Irene had very low pressure but wind speed was not high. I do kno it was a very large storm but still doesn't that debunk any pressure=wind speed variable?


No...

Ok let's say you have a 18 wheeler truck fully loaded... it's going to take MORE gas to power that truck then it would if it was empty but in the same driving conditions...

Well the Low pressure in a Hurricane is the fuel that powers the Tropical Engine... The Larger the Hurricane the lower the Pressure needs to be in order to increase the winds. With Hurricanes you also have many other influences such as Pressure Gradient but in simplest terms that's the idea behind it...
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Re: ATL: ERNESTO - Tropical Storm

#2447 Postby Ivanhater » Sat Aug 04, 2012 2:11 pm

Very healthy

Image
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#2448 Postby Rgv20 » Sat Aug 04, 2012 2:11 pm

Brownsville NWS afternoon discussion regarding Ernesto

"BY THE END OF NEXT WEEK...TROPICAL STORM ERNESTO IS EXPECTED TO
CONTINUE TO MOVE WESTWARD AND SLOWLY INTENSIFY AS IT APPROACHES THE
YUCATAN PENINSULA. AS IT MOVES ACROSS THE YUCATAN PENINSULA IT
SHOULD WEAKEN BUT QUICKLY INTENSIFY OVER THE BAY OF CAMPECHE LATE
THURSDAY INTO FRIDAY. IT IS STILL TOO EARLY TO DETERMINE THE EXACT
PATH THIS STORM WILL TAKE. STAY TUNED FOR ANY UPDATES ON HOW THIS
SYSTEM EVOLVES FOR THE NEXT FEW DAYS. DECIDED TO INCREASE NORTHEAST
FLOW BETWEEN 10 TO 15 MPH INCREASING UP TO 20 MPH BY SATURDAY WITH
THE APPROACH OF THIS STORM OVER THE GULF WATERS."
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Re: ATL: ERNESTO - Tropical Storm

#2449 Postby T'Bonz » Sat Aug 04, 2012 2:15 pm

It would not be a surprise to see Ernesto mysteriously degrade, or undergo rapid intensification into a Category 2 hurricane.


LOL. That made me laugh. Hello Captain Obvious. Even I can make a prediction like that. All that is missing is cat 3-5 and one has all of the options!

I like Bryan's assessment. It's similar, but explains why it can go one way or the other.
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Re:

#2450 Postby greenkat » Sat Aug 04, 2012 2:15 pm

Weatherfreak000 wrote:Ivan's graphic clearly shows how recent trend has been Ernesto jogging more NW than WNW. These jogs I believe will continue, as Ernesto should gradually strengthen and stair step towards the northern end of the forecast cone.

Like "landfall near Cancun" north? Or "passing through Yucatan Passage w/o landfall" north? Or "brushing Cuba" north?
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Hope this helped ;)

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Re: ATL: ERNESTO - Models

#2451 Postby Nimbus » Sat Aug 04, 2012 2:17 pm

I would be so relieved if Ernesto made landfall south of Cozumel.
Needs to remain weak, and that ridge needs to build west in a hurry for that to verify though.
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#2452 Postby mcheer23 » Sat Aug 04, 2012 2:22 pm

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Re:

#2453 Postby Florida1118 » Sat Aug 04, 2012 2:23 pm

mcheer23 wrote:http://raleighwx.americanwx.com/models/atcf/18zatcfearlyinvest1best.gif

18z

Thats 3 days old...Dont think thats the one you wanted :)
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Shuriken

#2454 Postby Shuriken » Sat Aug 04, 2012 2:24 pm

We've seen already with Ernesto that satellite images are not tools for gauging intensification, esp with developing storms.
I think I have had a pretty good read on Ernesto's current state all along (i.e., it was looking pukish/wavy a day or so ago and various peeps were over-blowing intensity, whereas full-bore 200mb exhausting took off late morning EST today, and I knew a new phase was underway) .

Of course I generally look at 1km visible zooms with their wealth of eye-candy fine detail.

Navymil animation makes me a happy camper.
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Re: Re:

#2455 Postby Weatherfreak000 » Sat Aug 04, 2012 2:26 pm

greenkat wrote:
Weatherfreak000 wrote:Ivan's graphic clearly shows how recent trend has been Ernesto jogging more NW than WNW. These jogs I believe will continue, as Ernesto should gradually strengthen and stair step towards the northern end of the forecast cone.

Like "landfall near Cancun" north? Or "passing through Yucatan Passage w/o landfall" north? Or "brushing Cuba" north?


Tough to say...i'm thinking it still hits the Yucatan and missed Jamaica IMO. However if he pulls it together and develops an eye we all know how wildly his core would wobble in just about any direction. I can only surmise that if he missed the Yucatan altogether it would be a very bad situation indeed.

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#2456 Postby wxwatcher1999 » Sat Aug 04, 2012 2:27 pm

i think that the right and left outlier models will converge in the middle and landfall next week will be in between galveston tx and sw louisiana




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Re: ATL: ERNESTO - Models

#2457 Postby ROCK » Sat Aug 04, 2012 2:27 pm

12Z NAM no body talks about....brings this thru the channel...

http://mag.ncep.noaa.gov/NCOMAGWEB/appc ... mageSize=M
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Re: ATL: ERNESTO - Recon Discussions - Comments - Questions

#2458 Postby Blinhart » Sat Aug 04, 2012 2:28 pm

Any idea why the Gulfstream isn't being used?? Will this next recon be able to get all the information in for the 11pm discussion and models??
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Re: Re:

#2459 Postby mcheer23 » Sat Aug 04, 2012 2:29 pm

Florida1118 wrote:
mcheer23 wrote:http://raleighwx.americanwx.com/models/atcf/18zatcfearlyinvest1best.gif

18z

Thats 3 days old...Dont think thats the one you wanted :)



You have to refresh it
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Re: ATL: ERNESTO - Models

#2460 Postby Stormlover2012 » Sat Aug 04, 2012 2:38 pm

rock, that also shows a little bit stronger system from the nam
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