ATL: BERTHA - Post-Tropical - Discussion

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xironman
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Re: ATL: INVEST 93L - Discussion

#121 Postby xironman » Mon Jul 28, 2014 7:02 pm

AEWspotter wrote:Latest burst of convection is pretty close to where the mid-level circulation is. As we get closer to the diurnal convective max tonight, we could see this become TD3 (or even just straight to Bertha) in a hurry. I've also seen some evidence of banding-like features over the past several hours. It definitely bodes well that 93L is in a fairly moist environment.

Floater: http://rammb.cira.colostate.edu/product ... 281730.GIF

TPW: http://rammb.cira.colostate.edu/product ... 280448.GIF


Nice convective pop near the COC
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Re: ATL: INVEST 93L - Discussion

#122 Postby AEWspotter » Mon Jul 28, 2014 7:03 pm

sunnyday wrote:Someone on here said that this will be a non hit for Florida. Has this been determined already?



There is really NO WAY to tell if this system will hit Florida at this point. Models don't do particularly well with long-range forecasts, and this system is about a week away from a U.S. landfall even entering the range of possibilities.

For the record, the ECMWF kills this system and brings it's remains into the Caribbean, while the GFS takes it North of the Lesser Antilles, and eventually curves the system out to sea.
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Re: ATL: INVEST 93L - Discussion

#123 Postby NDG » Mon Jul 28, 2014 7:04 pm

xironman wrote:
AEWspotter wrote:Latest burst of convection is pretty close to where the mid-level circulation is. As we get closer to the diurnal convective max tonight, we could see this become TD3 (or even just straight to Bertha) in a hurry. I've also seen some evidence of banding-like features over the past several hours. It definitely bodes well that 93L is in a fairly moist environment.

Floater: http://rammb.cira.colostate.edu/product ... 281730.GIF

TPW: http://rammb.cira.colostate.edu/product ... 280448.GIF


Nice convective pop near the COC


The outflow and or UL divergence in the western and southern quadrant is excellent!
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#124 Postby JonathanBelles » Mon Jul 28, 2014 7:05 pm

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#125 Postby Aric Dunn » Mon Jul 28, 2014 7:16 pm

well on its way... decent outflow good moisture envelope and good low level convergence.. likely see a TD much before the NHC forecast... its still partially attached to ITCZ but looks to be quickly doing away with that problem.
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Re: ATL: INVEST 93L - Discussion

#126 Postby floridasun78 » Mon Jul 28, 2014 7:16 pm

JonathanBelles can exlpain how ship Intensity work i notice with td2 it have going strong but shear and dry air kill it i notice with 93l got it to hurr few days
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Re:

#127 Postby SFLcane » Mon Jul 28, 2014 7:25 pm

Aric Dunn wrote:well on its way... decent outflow good moisture envelope and good low level convergence.. likely see a TD much before the NHC forecast... its still partially attached to ITCZ but looks to be quickly doing away with that problem.


Aric.... care to comment on what happens north of the islands? :)
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#128 Postby Alyono » Mon Jul 28, 2014 7:34 pm

lets not forget Dean 7 years ago. The models had it passing well north of the islands.

It ended up striking Martinique as a cat 2 and quickly became a cat 5 in the Caribbean.

Allen, which occurred at a very similar time of year in 1980, went through the Windwards as a strong 3 and also became a 5 in the east Caribbean

Going west does not guarantee a weak system
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Re:

#129 Postby TropicalAnalystwx13 » Mon Jul 28, 2014 7:41 pm

Alyono wrote:lets not forget Dean 7 years ago. The models had it passing well north of the islands.

It ended up striking Martinique as a cat 2 and quickly became a cat 5 in the Caribbean.

Allen, which occurred at a very similar time of year in 1980, went through the Windwards as a strong 3 and also became a 5 in the east Caribbean

Going west does not guarantee a weak system

Dean and Allen had very different conditions awaiting them in the Caribbean.

From Dean's 10th advisory:

BASED ON WHAT WE THINK WE KNOW ABOUT INTENSITY CHANGE...THERE DO NOT
SEEM TO BE TOO MANY INHIBITING FACTORS TO A FUTURE INTENSIFICATION
OF DEAN. GLOBAL MODELS UNANIMOUSLY DEVELOP A LARGE UPPER-LEVEL
ANTICYCLONE NEAR THE CENTER OF THE HURRICANE AS THE SYSTEM TRAVELS
INTO THE CARIBBEAN SEA. IN COMBINATION WITH VERY DEEP WARM
WATERS...THIS PATTERN WOULD FAVOR THE DEVELOPMENT OF A POWERFUL
HURRICANE.


NHC discussions concerning Allen noted an retrograding upper-level low north of Puerto Rico. This feature likely helped to enhance the storm's poleward outflow channel and allow for significant intensification.

This year, the Caribbean is dominated by surface trade winds on the order of 20-25kts, and upper-level winds on the order of 25-35 knots. If 93L enters the central Caribbean, it will die.
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#130 Postby TropicalAnalystwx13 » Mon Jul 28, 2014 7:44 pm

93L's circulation is closed via the most recent ASCAT pass.

Image
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Re: ATL: INVEST 93L - Discussion

#131 Postby cycloneye » Mon Jul 28, 2014 7:45 pm

00z Best Track.

AL, 93, 2014072900, , BEST, 0, 96N, 354W, 25, 1010, DB
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Re: Re:

#132 Postby Alyono » Mon Jul 28, 2014 7:49 pm

TropicalAnalystwx13 wrote:
Alyono wrote:lets not forget Dean 7 years ago. The models had it passing well north of the islands.

It ended up striking Martinique as a cat 2 and quickly became a cat 5 in the Caribbean.

Allen, which occurred at a very similar time of year in 1980, went through the Windwards as a strong 3 and also became a 5 in the east Caribbean

Going west does not guarantee a weak system

Dean and Allen had very different conditions awaiting them in the Caribbean.

From Dean's 10th advisory:

BASED ON WHAT WE THINK WE KNOW ABOUT INTENSITY CHANGE...THERE DO NOT
SEEM TO BE TOO MANY INHIBITING FACTORS TO A FUTURE INTENSIFICATION
OF DEAN. GLOBAL MODELS UNANIMOUSLY DEVELOP A LARGE UPPER-LEVEL
ANTICYCLONE NEAR THE CENTER OF THE HURRICANE AS THE SYSTEM TRAVELS
INTO THE CARIBBEAN SEA. IN COMBINATION WITH VERY DEEP WARM
WATERS...THIS PATTERN WOULD FAVOR THE DEVELOPMENT OF A POWERFUL
HURRICANE.


NHC discussions concerning Allen noted an retrograding upper-level low north of Puerto Rico. This feature likely helped to enhance the storm's poleward outflow channel and allow for significant intensification.

This year, the Caribbean is dominated by surface trade winds on the order of 20-25kts, and upper-level winds on the order of 25-35 knots. If 93L enters the central Caribbean, it will die.


The Allen TCR says there was westerly shear in the Caribbean that was supposed to cause weakening. Instead, it enhanced the outflow.

This is not guaranteed to be weak in the Caribbean
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#133 Postby Alyono » Mon Jul 28, 2014 7:51 pm

read bullet point 4

If this becomes intense east of the Caribbean, it will be a similar setup to Allen

http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/archive/storm_w ... elim01.gif
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Re: ATL: INVEST 93L - Discussion

#134 Postby TJRE » Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:00 pm

She is pushing that dry air and dust >>>> away with ease ATM

the girl has some moxy

http://rammb.cira.colostate.edu/ramsdis/online/loop.asp?data_folder=rmtc/rmtcsasec6ir304&width=640&height=480

Image
Last edited by TJRE on Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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#135 Postby RL3AO » Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:02 pm

Continued to be impressed with how moist the MDR is. Certainly the most favorable I can remember in the past two seasons (2013/14).
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Re: ATL: INVEST 93L - Discussion

#136 Postby fci » Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:02 pm

AEWspotter wrote:
sunnyday wrote:Someone on here said that this will be a non hit for Florida. Has this been determined already?



There is really NO WAY to tell if this system will hit Florida at this point. Models don't do particularly well with long-range forecasts, and this system is about a week away from a U.S. landfall even entering the range of possibilities.

For the record, the ECMWF kills this system and brings it's remains into the Caribbean, while the GFS takes it North of the Lesser Antilles, and eventually curves the system out to sea.


What the poster said about "non-Florida" was a comment on the map showing what systems in a similar location to 93L have done over the past 40-50 years or so. I don't think they were referring at all to what 93L might due but noting that the historical chart had no threats to Florida.
I think........
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Re: ATL: INVEST 93L - Discussion

#137 Postby SFLcane » Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:03 pm

@Johnmorales facebook

Assuming Invest 93L develops, models are trending towards a northbound escape PRIOR to the Caribbean. But this assumes the persistence of an upper level low north of Puerto Rico and/or a deep trough along the east coast of the U.S. turning it north. In other words, the system -- should it survive the dry air, lukewarm waters, and eventual wind shear -- could deviate before reaching the Antilles, but we can't quite declare victory yet. However, for Florida, I'm already declaring today that the disturbance is not a threat to the state.
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#138 Postby djones65 » Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:09 pm

And who is John Morales? I am not from Florida...
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Re:

#139 Postby SFLcane » Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:11 pm

djones65 wrote:And who is John Morales? I am not from Florida...


https://www.facebook.com/johnmoralesnbc6
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Re: ATL: INVEST 93L - Discussion

#140 Postby Frank2 » Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:13 pm

Wow - seeing the Allen document that one pro met posted brings back memories (below) - don't believe I typed that particular document, perhaps one of the other admin staff at that time (probably Ruth or Lilas or Frances, all deceased)...

http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/archive/storm_w ... elim01.gif

True what was said - at that time the NHEML was readying to fly a mission with their C-130 and the two P-3's, but the concern at the daily map discussion was that Allen might get sheared before they arrived on-station. The one remarkable thing about Allen, as noted in journal articles was the track - it steered around every land mass in it's path as it passed through the Caribbean and through the windward passage, and though it made landfall in south Texas, even that could have been far worse - truly a hurricane with a steering wheel attached...

Back to 93L - unlike Allen, shear might be an issue this time (every system and environment is unique)...

Frank
Last edited by Frank2 on Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:04 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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