ATL: HERMINE - Post-Tropical - Discussion

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Re: ATL: INVEST 99L - Discussion

#2361 Postby Frank P » Thu Aug 25, 2016 5:38 pm

wxman57 wrote:
Frank P wrote:Say what you want about 99L but to me this is the best kind of storm to track; nothing simple, models flipping and flopping, frustrating everyone, some kill it off, others keep thinking if it can hold on a little longer it has a chance, dry air, the dreaded shear monster, oh wait another LLC developing, stacking issue, model wars... This is like watching reality TV except in the written vernacular... Ha... what a great little discombobulated system to track, and if it goes POOF... so be it... but I am still going to watch it until it does! Thank you 99L for entertaining me for the past several days!


I'd have to disagree with you there, Frank. Having to send out 7-day forecasts to hundreds of clients on something so uncertain isn't the best kind of storm to track. I'd much prefer it be a stable Cat 3-4 with a well-defined eye, along with great model agreement. ;-) This is a pain in the butt to track as an operational forecaster.

I've just about conceded that this disturbance is history, no development. That low-level vortex is meaningless without surface convergence, don't even focus on it. As I've always said, the center is going to follow (or form near) the convection. There's not much of that (over water) to focus on, either. Lacking anything to focus convergence at the surface, it's done.


I certainly understand your point wxman57, but you do it for a living, I do it just for fun! Are you bring out Mr. Bones soon?
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Re: ATL: INVEST 99L - Discussion

#2362 Postby Frank P » Thu Aug 25, 2016 5:40 pm

Aric Dunn wrote:finally some convection firing right around the vort for the first time since it was near guadalupe .


yeah, not much atm, but certainly its a start for sure... and still looks due west too
Last edited by Frank P on Thu Aug 25, 2016 5:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ATL: INVEST 99L - Discussion

#2363 Postby wxman57 » Thu Aug 25, 2016 5:40 pm

Frank P wrote:I certainly understand your point wxman57, but you do it for a living, I do it just for fun! Are you bring out Mr. Bones soon?


Perhaps (Bones), but for me vs. the disturbance...
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SeGaBob

Re: ATL: INVEST 99L - Discussion

#2364 Postby SeGaBob » Thu Aug 25, 2016 5:42 pm

Frank P wrote:
Aric Dunn wrote:finally some convection firing right around the vort for the first time since it was near guadalupe .


yeah, not much atm, but certainly its a start for sure... and still looks due west too


Yeah you can just barely see it on the last frame if you follow that center.
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Re: ATL: INVEST 99L - Discussion

#2365 Postby Tireman4 » Thu Aug 25, 2016 5:43 pm

wxman57 wrote:
Frank P wrote:I certainly understand your point wxman57, but you do it for a living, I do it just for fun! Are you bring out Mr. Bones soon?


Perhaps (Bones), but for me vs. the disturbance...[/quote

Disturbance, sir? Like the Force or Weather related? :)
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Re: ATL: INVEST 99L - Discussion

#2366 Postby wxman57 » Thu Aug 25, 2016 5:45 pm

ObsessedMiami wrote:Weather Channel running with "plowing into Cuba" scenario


It doesn't matter what that little swirl does - watch the convection, not the swirl.
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Re: ATL: INVEST 99L - Discussion

#2367 Postby stormlover2013 » Thu Aug 25, 2016 5:46 pm

From my good buddy:
Meterologist in Houston
Good afternoon everyone,

I hope your Thursday is going well. We are just a couple of days from the weekend. So this email will not be quite as lengthy as yesterday's as many of you are thinking "thank goodness." HA! Anyway, here are the trends we have seen today along with my thoughts over the next couple of days as well.

The tropical disturbance out there is very poorly defined as you can see on visible satellite imagery. Now keep in mind, if you look at this link later tonight when it is dark, you will not see what I am seeing now, however if you do view it by 6-7 PM central time, you will see what I am talking about below.

http://www.ssd.noaa.gov/PS/TROP/floater ... imated.gif

Do not pay any attention to the cloud cover along the Dominican Republic and Hispaniola. This is associated with the disturbance but due to the 40-50 knots of shear (inhibiting development) affecting this system, the activity is being displaced from the center. Notice the little swirl north of the islands in the image above.

The other factor not allowing it to develop is the dry air. The water vapor which is the link below shows dry air (orange color) just west of the disturbance which also inhibits development. There is still quite a bit of shear and dry air ahead of this thing and it will need to rally big time for it to develop before making the Bahamas.

http://www.ssd.noaa.gov/PS/TROP/floater ... imated.gif

Many of the model runs have shifted further west during the day and this goes with my thinking from yesterday as the ridge of high pressure (what steers the system) sits across the southeast United States. This will be strong enough to push it west into the eastern and eventually the central Gulf of Mexico.

The strength of this thing could vary from a strong tropical storm to a major hurricane. Like I mentioned yesterday, predicting the magnitude of a tropical system is nearly impossible. The conditions will be ripe for prime strengthening across the Gulf of Mexico but what matters is how long is stays over the waters.

So my thoughts and where I still feel will strike are below...

The disturbance will remain an open wave until it reaches the Bahamas, it will strengthen into either a depression of Tropical Storm where it would become Hemine. It will either clip the southern tip of Florida or make it through the Florida Straits. It will continue on a west to northwestward track into the southeast Gulf of Mexico. This ridge will still hold strong. After that, is really up in the air to whether it continues west towards the Texas/Louisiana coastline, the central coast or the Florida panhandle. As for the strength of this storm, it is really hard to say at this time.

Here are my thoughts for the FINAL LANDFALL:

Brownsville to Matagorda Bay, TX - Less than 5%
(Late week to Labor Day weekend)

Matagorda Bay to Sabine Pass, TX - 20-30%
(Late week to Labor Day weekend)

Sabine Pass, TX to New Orleans, LA - 20-30%
(Late week)

New Orleans, LA to Panama City, FL - 30-40%
(Mid week)

Panama City to Tampa, FL - 10-20%
(Early to mid week)

On many of the TV stations you will see the spaghetti plots that have really become popular over the past few years. I will not show them for a couple of reasons; first, when a "storm" hasn't formed yet, it is hard for weather models to focus on an actual center, and secondly when a person sees one plot heading their way, they instantly think it is going to affect them. When and if something does form, I am fine (for the most part) with showing those plots. Ok, I am off my soap box...sorry...

There are three things I look at when looking at the track of a tropical system: historical tracks, upper pattern and my gut. Sounds crazy but these are the factors I look at and they have helped me become a better forecaster because of it.

IR imagery:
http://www.ssd.noaa.gov/PS/TROP/floater ... imated.gif

I will continue to provide updates each evening through the rest of the week and into the weekend. If many of you want this sent to your personal emails versus work emails during the weekend because you don't check them, please let me know. Also, if there is anyone else who wants to receive these emails, also shoot me a quick message and I will add them to the list.

As always, you can follow me on Twitter @Nathan_Weather where I also provide updates, retweets, other pertinent information as well.

I hope everyone has a great Thursday and Friday. I will try to have an update out to you all tomorrow afternoon before leaving for work for the weekend. Enjoy!

Nathan
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Re: ATL: INVEST 99L - Discussion

#2368 Postby ConvergenceZone » Thu Aug 25, 2016 5:50 pm

I agree with wxman, it's all but done. By looking at the Sat, you would never know there is even a wave. Would probably only give it about a 10 to 15% of development at this point.
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Re: ATL: INVEST 99L - Discussion

#2369 Postby La Sirena » Thu Aug 25, 2016 5:55 pm

Forgive this question from a newbie---is the naked swirl attempting to get some cover as it approaches the Bahamas? :grr:
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Re: ATL: INVEST 99L - Discussion

#2370 Postby Frank P » Thu Aug 25, 2016 5:56 pm

Convection firing up southeast of the little LLC that just won't give up... yeah not much, but it's at least a start perhaps...

Image
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Re: ATL: INVEST 99L - Discussion

#2371 Postby TheStormExpert » Thu Aug 25, 2016 5:58 pm

It's a little too late for this wave. It's DONE, put a fork in it and... :blowup:
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Re: ATL: INVEST 99L - Discussion

#2372 Postby CYCLONE MIKE » Thu Aug 25, 2016 5:59 pm

HurriGuy wrote:If the naked LLC wasn't there, what would we be saying? It would still be a strong tropical wave, right? I think we would be locked onto it.

I only say that because the more I look behind the vorticity we have been looking at all day, the more intrigued I am.



Next, move on nothing to see here. Just a continuation of the last several seasons
Last edited by CYCLONE MIKE on Thu Aug 25, 2016 6:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ATL: INVEST 99L - Discussion

#2373 Postby Aric Dunn » Thu Aug 25, 2016 6:01 pm

Frank P wrote:Convection firing up southeast of the little LLC that just won't give up... yeah not much, but it's at least a start perhaps...

http://i65.tinypic.com/243gux3.jpg


1km visible. the convection is right over the center. your L is slightly to far nw
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Re: ATL: INVEST 99L - Discussion

#2374 Postby Aric Dunn » Thu Aug 25, 2016 6:02 pm

latest frames has convection trying to form on the west side of the swirl too.. funny little thing.. lol
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Re: ATL: INVEST 99L - Discussion

#2375 Postby xcool22 » Thu Aug 25, 2016 6:03 pm

TheStormExpert wrote:It's a little too late for this wave. It's DONE, put a fork in it and... :blowup:

I agree poof next wave
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Re: ATL: INVEST 99L - Discussion

#2376 Postby Frank P » Thu Aug 25, 2016 6:03 pm

I agree Aric, after reviewing the loop the convection is just on the southeast edge of the LLC... thanks
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Re: ATL: INVEST 99L - Discussion

#2377 Postby Frank P » Thu Aug 25, 2016 6:05 pm

In addition, atm it does not appear the shear is blowing off the tops of the convection, but it might be too early to make the call on this without more loops..
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Re: ATL: INVEST 99L - Discussion

#2378 Postby AJC3 » Thu Aug 25, 2016 6:05 pm

HurriGuy wrote:Somebody correct me if I am wrong, but the wave axis is positively tilted right now? I checked NAM initialization to make sure and I believe I am right?

Makes sense looking at water vapor loop


That appears to be the case, unlike when it was negatively tilted, just east of the LA a couple of days ago.
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Re: ATL: INVEST 99L - Discussion

#2379 Postby MGC » Thu Aug 25, 2016 6:06 pm

Never say never with the tropics. I can't remember how many times a disturbance has looked pathetic only to come roaring back to life. I'm not saying 99L is going to get off life support but the possibility exits......MGC
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Re: ATL: INVEST 99L - Discussion

#2380 Postby mcheer23 » Thu Aug 25, 2016 6:09 pm

Not done. Some of you obviously didn't watch the NBA finals
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