ATL: MATTHEW - Post-Tropical - Discussion

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Re: ATL: MATTHEW - Hurricane - Discussion

#4621 Postby weathaguyry » Mon Oct 03, 2016 6:00 pm

ThetaE wrote:
weathaguyry wrote:What exactly is making the 18z showing a HARD right turn near NC, as opposed to an Irene style storm as shown in the 12z? (I put this in the discussion thread to avoid too much blabbering in the models thread)


I was already actually typing an analysis on this intricacy you brought up, so thanks for asking! :D

Also, a quick disclaimer: I'm not actually 100% sure on a lot of this (always learning stuff!), but this is my best shot at explaining what happens.

The biggest impact on Matthew's eventual track through the NC area appears to be the approaching trough. The trough's exact angle and deepness will have significant impact on how sharply/when/where Matthew's turn to the northeast will occur. A flatter (weaker) and more positively tilted trough (southern part of the trough lags behind the northern part) will kick Matthew out to sea more, whereas a deeper and more negatively tilted trough could allow the turn to be more gradual, or- in the worst case scenario- not cause Matthew to turn at all (I think this is especially likely if the trough slows down a lot or stalls over the central US, which will help funnel Matthew in and/or phase with the trough). Again, this is my rough understanding of what's happening, so it may not be 100% correct.

EDIT: I forgot to mention, the trough still isn't fully over land as of now, which means there's still a good deal of uncertainty with exactly how it evolves. Once it moves ashore and we can start sampling it better (especially since weather balloons are being launched) the exact track of Matthew through/near NC should become clearer.


Thanks for your insight, I appreciate it!
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Re: ATL: MATTHEW - Hurricane - Discussion

#4622 Postby TheAustinMan » Mon Oct 03, 2016 6:01 pm

alan1961 wrote:Just looked on flight radar and noticed one of the Noaa planes out near Matthew obviously looks like
taking readings etc.


Yep! That's the NOAA-9 "Gonzo" high altitude flight investigating the air above Matthew and dropping several dropsondes around the region to get a better idea of the current environment (so that flight won't necessarily be going into the storm). All that information be fed into the models to perhaps provide better modelling accuracy.
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Re: ATL: MATTHEW - Hurricane - Discussion

#4623 Postby CrazyC83 » Mon Oct 03, 2016 6:02 pm

I created this image for a blog, and tried to explain it (don't focus too much on exact locations):

Image

This is the 12Z GFS forecast vorticity map for Friday night. Don't focus too much on the position of Matthew here (it is subject to change) as much as on the synoptic features. I may be a bit more scientific here.

The feature at "A" represents Hurricane Matthew. It will be steered by the other four features annotated.

The area to the east of Matthew at "B" is the steering ridge. As the ridge is deeper than first forecast, most recent models bring Matthew very close to the Southeast coast (if not allowing it to make landfall). Depending on the strength of it, Matthew may be forced up the east coast or may have an escape route available (at least temporarily...).

To the east of the ridge, "C" represents a weak tropical low, Invest 98L. Some models do develop this storm into Tropical Storm Nicole. If it is a strong enough storm, it may open up a pathway east as the ridge may weaken in its wake. However, only a small number of models do such.

To the west, near and over the Gulf of Mexico, "D" is a potential blocking ridge. If Matthew is a slow mover missing the trough and that ridge builds in over the Southeast late this week, it may break all steering currents down and force Matthew into a loop just off the Southeast coast through the weekend and into early next week.

Finally, the area over the Midwest is "E", which is a trough. Models are split over how strong it gets (the GFS is strongest). If the trough is strong enough, it could merge, or "phase", with Matthew and draw the hurricane northward into the Northeast (much like Sandy). If it is somewhat weaker, it may keep them separate but provide a pathway out to sea.
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Re: ATL: MATTHEW - Hurricane - Discussion

#4624 Postby Hypercane_Kyle » Mon Oct 03, 2016 6:05 pm

Extremely intense thunderstorms firing off in Matthew now. -80C wrapping around a good 1/2 of the eyewall. Could be a sign the EWRC is about to wrap up?

Image
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Re: ATL: MATTHEW - Hurricane - Discussion

#4625 Postby weathernerdguy » Mon Oct 03, 2016 6:08 pm

CrazyC83 wrote:I created this image for a blog, and tried to explain it (don't focus too much on exact locations):

Image

This is the 12Z GFS forecast vorticity map for Friday night. Don't focus too much on the position of Matthew here (it is subject to change) as much as on the synoptic features. I may be a bit more scientific here.

The feature at "A" represents Hurricane Matthew. It will be steered by the other four features annotated.

The area to the east of Matthew at "B" is the steering ridge. As the ridge is deeper than first forecast, most recent models bring Matthew very close to the Southeast coast (if not allowing it to make landfall). Depending on the strength of it, Matthew may be forced up the east coast or may have an escape route available (at least temporarily...).

To the east of the ridge, "C" represents a weak tropical low, Invest 98L. Some models do develop this storm into Tropical Storm Nicole. If it is a strong enough storm, it may open up a pathway east as the ridge may weaken in its wake. However, only a small number of models do such.

To the west, near and over the Gulf of Mexico, "D" is a potential blocking ridge. If Matthew is a slow mover missing the trough and that ridge builds in over the Southeast late this week, it may break all steering currents down and force Matthew into a loop just off the Southeast coast through the weekend and into early next week.

Finally, the area over the Midwest is "E", which is a trough. Models are split over how strong it gets (the GFS is strongest). If the trough is strong enough, it could merge, or "phase", with Matthew and draw the hurricane northward into the Northeast (much like Sandy). If it is somewhat weaker, it may keep them separate but provide a pathway out to sea.

Wow! Great explanation!
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Re: ATL: MATTHEW - Hurricane - Discussion

#4626 Postby 1900hurricane » Mon Oct 03, 2016 6:08 pm

Hypercane_Kyle wrote:Extremely intense thunderstorms firing off in Matthew now. -80C wrapping around a good 1/2 of the eyewall. Could be a sign the EWRC is about to wrap up?

Image

Sure is. The inner eyewall has begun to collapse into the new eye. The end of that IR loop shows it pretty well.
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Re: ATL: MATTHEW - Hurricane - Discussion

#4627 Postby Raebie » Mon Oct 03, 2016 6:09 pm

If I was in Haiti right now, I don't think I'd even want to see what's coming on radar.
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Re: ATL: MATTHEW - Hurricane - Discussion

#4628 Postby ThetaE » Mon Oct 03, 2016 6:11 pm

Hypercane_Kyle wrote:Extremely intense thunderstorms firing off in Matthew now. -80C wrapping around a good 1/2 of the eyewall. Could be a sign the EWRC is about to wrap up?


Yes, I think Matthew is very close to finishing his EWRC. Here's a link to the GOES-E CONUS satellite, which has a higher temporal resolution (more pics in the same amount of time; I just like saying the word "temporal" 8-) ):
http://weather.msfc.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/ge ... uality=100
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Re: ATL: MATTHEW - Hurricane - Discussion

#4629 Postby SeGaBob » Mon Oct 03, 2016 6:12 pm

Can we expect this to restrengthen at some point?
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Re: ATL: MATTHEW - Hurricane - Discussion

#4630 Postby TimeZone » Mon Oct 03, 2016 6:12 pm

Looks like Matthew wants to make one more run at cat 5 status before landfall.
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Re: ATL: MATTHEW - Hurricane - Discussion

#4631 Postby SunnyThoughts » Mon Oct 03, 2016 6:14 pm

ThetaE wrote:
Hypercane_Kyle wrote:Extremely intense thunderstorms firing off in Matthew now. -80C wrapping around a good 1/2 of the eyewall. Could be a sign the EWRC is about to wrap up?


Yes, I think Matthew is very close to finishing his EWRC. Here's a link to the GOES-E CONUS satellite, which has a higher temporal resolution (more pics in the same amount of time; I just like saying the word "temporal" 8-) ):
http://weather.msfc.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/ge ... uality=100


Wow, you can see how much Matthew is expanding in that loop.
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Re: ATL: MATTHEW - Hurricane - Discussion

#4632 Postby Kazmit » Mon Oct 03, 2016 6:15 pm

Any intensity estimates for 8pm?
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Re: ATL: MATTHEW - Hurricane - Discussion

#4633 Postby ThetaE » Mon Oct 03, 2016 6:16 pm

Kazmit_ wrote:Any intensity estimates for 8pm?


938 mb, 130 kt. If it can get its EWRC done in time, it should be able to strengthen some.
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Re: ATL: MATTHEW - Hurricane - Discussion

#4634 Postby SeGaBob » Mon Oct 03, 2016 6:17 pm

Kazmit_ wrote:Any intensity estimates for 8pm?

I think stays the same until recon gets a chance to check it out.
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Re: ATL: MATTHEW - Hurricane - Discussion

#4635 Postby seahawkjd » Mon Oct 03, 2016 6:18 pm

Have there been any updates from Haiti on rain? It looks like its going to be devastating there.
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Re: ATL: MATTHEW - Hurricane - Discussion

#4636 Postby AutoPenalti » Mon Oct 03, 2016 6:19 pm

GEFS ensembles shifted further west.
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Re: ATL: MATTHEW - Hurricane - Discussion

#4637 Postby miamijaaz » Mon Oct 03, 2016 6:20 pm

After Haiti, it looks like Guantanamo Bay is going to get clobbered.
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Re: ATL: MATTHEW - Hurricane - Discussion

#4638 Postby ThetaE » Mon Oct 03, 2016 6:20 pm

ThetaE wrote:
Kazmit_ wrote:Any intensity estimates for 8pm?


938 mb, 130 kt. If it can get its EWRC done in time, it should be able to strengthen some.


I should add that I'm assuming recon gets a pass in before the advisory, otherwise they probably won't change anything.
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Re: ATL: MATTHEW - Hurricane - Discussion

#4639 Postby Evil Jeremy » Mon Oct 03, 2016 6:20 pm

SeGaBob wrote:
Kazmit_ wrote:Any intensity estimates for 8pm?

I think stays the same until recon gets a chance to check it out.


Recon is on it's way. Hopefully they make a pass before 8.
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Re: ATL: MATTHEW - Hurricane - Discussion

#4640 Postby tropicwatch » Mon Oct 03, 2016 6:21 pm

ThetaE wrote:
ThetaE wrote:
Kazmit_ wrote:Any intensity estimates for 8pm?


938 mb, 130 kt. If it can get its EWRC done in time, it should be able to strengthen some.


I should add that I'm assuming recon gets a pass in before the advisory, otherwise they probably won't change anything.


Recon is south of Bainet Haiti starting to descend.
Last edited by tropicwatch on Mon Oct 03, 2016 6:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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