ATL: IRMA - Post-Tropical - Discussion

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Re: ATL: IRMA - Hurricane - Discussion

#1961 Postby bvigal » Sun Sep 03, 2017 3:53 pm

wxman57 wrote:Irma remains a small storm today. Hurricane-force winds only extend out 10-15 miles to the south of the center. Without land interaction, it's hard for a hurricane to grow in size significantly very quickly. By the time the center passes the NE Caribbean, the hurricane-force winds may extend out 20-25 miles south of the center - still relatively small. Tropical storm-force winds may extend out 100 miles or so to the south of the storm as it passes the islands, which is far enough to reach them. Our forecast has 39mph winds reaching San Juan around 8pm Wednesday, but just barely grazing northern PR. The northern Leeward Islands west to the BVI are grazed by the 58mph winds earlier on Wednesday. Of course, any slight deviation south would put the hurricane-force winds into those islands. Note that the strongest winds will be on the north side of the storm.

Looking at the overnight ensembles, it's not looking good for the East U.S. Coast on September 11th. Prime target appears to be the Carolinas north to NY. Florida isn't out of the picture, of course, but chances of an impact there are lower than farther north.


While I agree with the likely numbers you have posted, since studying advisory 17, I'd (respectfully) like to add some cautionary comments about preparation for storms on said islands. These are fine points that mainlanders often do not realize. I've lived through some there, and carefully studied all of them since 1999. I remember how Omar unexpectedly intensified during the night during passing to 5kt below Cat 4, and many with sunken boats which were moored complained bitterly the storm was supposed to be "only" at Cat 2. I wish that would never happen.

Forecast tracks have trended south through Adv#17, bringing dangerous seas and at least gale-force winds (50kt) within reach of northern-most islands. Track Forecast Advisory #17 plotted from 06/12z fix to next fix measures center of storm only 22nm from Anguilla, and 30nm from Anegada BVI, with projected 50kt winds extending up to 70nm in NW quadrant (one to note for storm approaching from SE, until eye is to the north of your lattitude), with tropical storm-force winds (35kt) extending up to 130nm. One must remember those lines between 12-hr or 24-hr fix points are only straight for plotting purposes. The actual storm will have a curve between fix points, which could mean the storm will pass even closer. I use nautical miles instead of statute miles for measuring, because the storm winds are given in nautical miles per hour, extent measurements in nautical miles, just for consistency.

from Advisory #17 Anegada located 18.7N 64.3W, Anguilla 18.2N 63.1W
FORECAST VALID 06/1200Z 18.2N 61.8W
MAX WIND 120 KT...GUSTS 145 KT.
50 KT... 80NE 60SE 50SW 70NW.
34 KT...150NE 130SE 90SW 130NW.

When on a small island, you can't get in your car and drive away. A truck can't drive in and bring new supply of lumber, batteries, water, lanterns, etc, they must come by boat from far away. So when supplies are gone from shelves, which happens quickly, there will be no more until after storm has cleared the entire area between your island and the origination. Tap water is often cistern, or otherwise not suitable for drinking. When winds reach 35mph, most governments turn off power, ferries have already quit running and been secured, travel-lifts will cease pulling boats, and planes won't fly. When the power is shut off, so is your cistern pump, so you have no running water, but must haul it up from the cistern by bucket if you have not filled containers in advance, and it will be cold. For those who must evacuate from outlying islands via boat, the seas will become prohibitive before the winds arrive, as swell can precede winds by 1 or 2 days. At many Caribbean islands, coral reefs make navigation after dark too risky in the calmest weather, leaving only daylight hours for safe movement.

Much island industry involves boats, which require quite a bit of time to secure. No one wants to be on a slippery deck detaching sails in rain and 35kt winds. No one wants to be on a ladder putting up heavy boards on windows, which on steep islands downhill side can be 30 feet or more off the ground, in rain and 35kt winds. Most businesses find that their employees need a day of decent weather to secure their own homes, and help less able neighbors & family, which pushes prep time back by one day. The bottom line: In the islands, more so than the mainland, it is impossible to wait until storm track has high confidence, or 36-hr warnings are issued, leaving only one full day of daylight, to do final preparations safely. One must avoid waiting until it is too late to fully prepare for the worst-case scenario, until a time when it is dangerous to do so.

I pray that all will seriously consider giving themselves an extra day (at least) to prepare, considering the cone, not the center track, and realizing that when the advisory "position" reaches you, half of the storm is already over! Please be safe!!
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Re: ATL: IRMA - Hurricane - Discussion

#1962 Postby NJWxHurricane » Sun Sep 03, 2017 3:54 pm

Irmas position currently looks north of guidance imo
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Re: ATL: IRMA - Hurricane - Discussion

#1963 Postby GCANE » Sun Sep 03, 2017 3:55 pm

Poleward outflow channel improving.
WV showing more flow into the ULL to the NE (27N, 30W)

Image
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Re: ATL: IRMA - Hurricane - Discussion

#1964 Postby Michele B » Sun Sep 03, 2017 3:55 pm

ScottNAtlanta wrote:I'm trying to get proactively prepared for Irma and remembered someone mentioning tension clips (plylox). Can anyone tell me where you can get them? They are harder to find than I anticipated


I got them at Home Depot (or Lowe's, can't remember, it's been awhile). You can look at ACE Hardware, too, I suspect - or Amazon...if your is as good as mine, stuff gets delivered within 2 days.

I use 8 per window (one on each corner - left and right - of each "side"), and come in packages of 20, I think, so count carefully how many you'll need to purchase.

Yup! Found 'em at Amazon - https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss ... rds=plylox

Hope I didn't break a rule here... :P
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Re: ATL: IRMA - Hurricane - Discussion

#1965 Postby jlauderdal » Sun Sep 03, 2017 3:57 pm

they came west again, not much but they keep mentioning it and they keep it that direction....happy hour gfs coming up

000
WTNT41 KNHC 032052
TCDAT1

Hurricane Irma Discussion Number 18
NWS National Hurricane Center Miami FL AL112017
500 PM AST Sun Sep 03 2017

The satellite presentation of Irma has degraded slightly since
this morning with the eye becoming less defined. There is evidence
of some northerly flow beneath the cirrus outflow, which may be
disrupting the inner core and preventing Irma from strengthening.
The latest consensus of the Dvorak satellite estimates suggest that
the 100 kt initial intensity could be a little generous, but with a
NOAA aircraft headed into the hurricane it is best to wait until
data from that mission is received before making any adjustment to
the initial wind speed.

Irma has been moving more westward since the previous advisory, but
the longer-term motion estimate is still south of due west or
260/12 kt. A strong high pressure ridge over the central Atlantic
should steer Irma westward to west-southwestward during the next
couple of days. After that time, a turn toward the west-northwest
should occur as Irma approaches the western portion of the Atlantic
ridge. The cross-track spread of the guidance is still relatively
small through day 5, but the ECMWF, UKMET, and HWRF are on the
southern side of the guidance envelope, with the GFS near the
middle of the envelope. The latest NHC track is once again near
the consensus of these typically reliable models, which is between
the southern edge of the guidance and the TCVN multi-model
consensus. The updated track is not very different from the
previous advisory, except at day 5 where it is slightly west of
the previous forecast.

Users are reminded to not focus on the exact forecast track since
strong winds and heavy rainfall extend well away from the center.
In fact, ASCAT data that arrived after the issuance of the previous
advisory indicated that the size of the tropical-storm-force wind
field has expanded, especially over the northern semicircle. As a
result, the initial and forecast wind radii have been adjusted
accordingly.


KEY MESSAGES:
1. Irma is expected to impact the northeastern Leeward Islands by
the middle of this week as a major hurricane, accompanied by
dangerous wind, storm surge, and rainfall impacts, along with rough
surf and rip currents. Hurricane watches have been issued for
portions of the Leeward Islands and additional hurricane or tropical
storm watches may be required on Monday. Residents in these areas
should monitor the progress of Irma and listen to advice given by
officials.

2. Irma is expected to remain a dangerous major hurricane through
the upcoming week and could directly affect the British and U.S.
Virgin Islands, Puerto Rico, Hispaniola, the Turks and Caicos, and
the Bahamas. Residents in all of these areas should monitor the
progress of Irma and listen to advice given by officials. Tropical
storm or hurricane watches could be issued for the British and U.S.
Virgin Islands and Puerto Rico on Monday.

3. It is too early to determine what direct impacts Irma might have
on the continental United States. Regardless, everyone in
hurricane-prone areas should ensure that they have their hurricane
plan in place, as we are now near the peak of the season.

FORECAST POSITIONS AND MAX WINDS

INIT 03/2100Z 17.6N 49.8W 100 KT 115 MPH
12H 04/0600Z 17.2N 51.4W 105 KT 120 MPH
24H 04/1800Z 16.8N 53.5W 110 KT 125 MPH
36H 05/0600Z 16.8N 55.8W 115 KT 130 MPH
48H 05/1800Z 17.3N 58.2W 120 KT 140 MPH
72H 06/1800Z 19.1N 63.5W 120 KT 140 MPH
96H 07/1800Z 21.2N 68.8W 115 KT 130 MPH
120H 08/1800Z 23.0N 73.5W 115 KT 130 MPH

$$
Forecaster Brown
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Re: ATL: IRMA - Hurricane - Discussion

#1966 Postby Blinhart » Sun Sep 03, 2017 3:59 pm

GCANE wrote:Poleward outflow channel improving.
WV showing more flow into the ULL to the NE (27N, 30W)

Image


Dry Air is disappearing quickly, this could explode into a Cat 5 at anytime.
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Re: ATL: IRMA - Hurricane - Discussion

#1967 Postby Aric Dunn » Sun Sep 03, 2017 4:00 pm

There is some north easterly shear from the strong ridging building in thats also pushing wsw. Hopefully it does not push it more sw..
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Re: ATL: IRMA - Hurricane - Discussion

#1968 Postby NJWxHurricane » Sun Sep 03, 2017 4:01 pm

Irma currently at 17.6N anyone know what the EURO had for it at this time?
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Re: ATL: IRMA - Hurricane - Discussion

#1969 Postby WeatherGuesser » Sun Sep 03, 2017 4:01 pm

BULLETIN
Hurricane Irma Advisory Number 18
NWS National Hurricane Center Miami FL AL112017
500 PM AST Sun Sep 03 2017

...HURRICANE WATCHES ISSUED FOR PORTIONS OF THE LEEWARD ISLANDS...
...NOAA HURRICANE HUNTER AIRCRAFT EN ROUTE TO IRMA...


SUMMARY OF 500 PM AST...2100 UTC...INFORMATION
----------------------------------------------
LOCATION...17.6N 49.8W
ABOUT 790 MI...1275 KM E OF THE LEEWARD ISLANDS
MAXIMUM SUSTAINED WINDS...115 MPH...185 KM/H
PRESENT MOVEMENT...W OR 260 DEGREES AT 14 MPH...22 KM/H
MINIMUM CENTRAL PRESSURE...969 MB...28.62 INCHES


WATCHES AND WARNINGS
--------------------
CHANGES WITH THIS ADVISORY:

The government of Antigua has issued a Hurricane Watch for the
islands of Antigua, Barbuda, Anguilla, Montserrat, St. Kitts, and
Nevis.

The government of the Netherlands has issued a Hurricane Watch for
the islands of Saba, St. Eustatius, and Sint Maarten.

The government of France has issued a Hurricane Watch for St.
Martin and Saint Barthelemy.

SUMMARY OF WATCHES AND WARNINGS IN EFFECT:

A Hurricane Watch is in effect for...
* Antigua, Barbuda, Anguilla, Montserrat, St. Kitts, and Nevis
* Saba, St. Eustatius, and Sint Maarten
* Saint Martin and Saint Barthelemy


Interests in the remainder of the Leeward Islands, the British and
U.S. Virgin Islands, and Puerto Rico should monitor the progress of
Irma. Additional Hurricane and Tropical Storm Watches may be
required for portions of this area on Monday.

For storm information specific to your area, please monitor
products issued by your national meteorological service.


DISCUSSION AND 48-HOUR OUTLOOK
------------------------------
At 500 PM AST (2100 UTC), the center of Hurricane Irma was located
near latitude 17.6 North, longitude 49.8 West. Irma is moving toward
the west near 14 mph (22 km/h). A westward to west-southwestward
motion with some reduction in forward speed is expected through
Monday night. On the forecast track, the center of Irma is
forecast to approach the northern Leeward Islands late Tuesday.

Maximum sustained winds are near 115 mph (185 km/h) with higher
gusts. Irma is a category 3 hurricane on the Saffir-Simpson
Hurricane Wind Scale. Some strengthening is forecast during the
next 48 hours.

Hurricane-force winds extend outward up to 35 miles (55 km) from the
center and tropical-storm-force winds extend outward up to 140 miles
(220 km).

The estimated minimum central pressure is 969 mb (28.62 inches).


HAZARDS AFFECTING LAND
----------------------
WIND: Hurricane conditions are possible within the watch area by
Tuesday night, with tropical storm conditions possible by late
Tuesday.


NEXT ADVISORY
-------------
Next intermediate advisory at 800 PM AST.
Next complete advisory at 1100 PM AST.

$$
Forecaster Brown
Last edited by WeatherGuesser on Sun Sep 03, 2017 4:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ATL: IRMA - Hurricane - Discussion

#1970 Postby NJWxHurricane » Sun Sep 03, 2017 4:01 pm

Aric Dunn wrote:There is some north easterly shear from the strong ridging building in thats also pushing wsw. Hopefully it does not push it more sw..

looks a bit north currently of guidance atm imo
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Re: ATL: IRMA - Hurricane - Discussion

#1971 Postby MississippiWx » Sun Sep 03, 2017 4:02 pm

GCANE wrote:Poleward outflow channel improving.
WV showing more flow into the ULL to the NE (27N, 30W)

Image


Irma is growing.
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Re: ATL: IRMA - Main Recon Thread (Data only)

#1972 Postby Extratropical94 » Sun Sep 03, 2017 4:02 pm

URNT15 KWBC 032101
NOAA2 0111A IRMA HDOB 11 20170903
205130 1550N 05125W 5907 04547 0048 +041 -120 326029 030 021 000 03
205200 1551N 05123W 6102 04281 0047 +055 -032 322030 030 023 000 00
205230 1552N 05120W 6236 04100 0044 +070 -062 321030 030 022 000 00
205300 1552N 05118W 6345 03958 0043 +079 -047 314029 030 021 002 00
205330 1553N 05116W 6452 03820 0043 +085 -004 311028 028 029 003 00
205400 1554N 05113W 6535 03708 0041 +091 +011 307030 033 022 005 00
205430 1554N 05111W 6688 03519 0043 +105 -037 310030 031 015 001 00
205500 1554N 05109W 6815 03358 0047 +116 -154 312029 030 019 002 00
205530 1554N 05106W 6936 03214 0045 +120 -029 310031 032 022 001 00
205600 1554N 05104W 6938 03207 0038 +128 -064 313033 033 025 001 00
205630 1553N 05101W 6930 03222 0042 +130 -211 312032 033 025 001 03
205700 1552N 05059W 6951 03197 0041 +134 -244 313031 032 023 001 00
205730 1552N 05057W 6947 03201 0039 +135 -272 311031 031 022 001 00
205800 1551N 05055W 6950 03196 0035 +136 -272 310030 030 024 000 03
205830 1553N 05053W 6964 03178 0035 +136 -250 303027 028 015 002 03
205900 1555N 05053W 6968 03173 0043 +130 -194 298028 029 020 000 00
205930 1557N 05052W 6963 03178 0044 +128 -182 301029 029 021 000 00
210000 1559N 05052W 6952 03189 0044 +124 -114 302026 027 021 000 00
210030 1601N 05051W 6946 03198 0037 +120 +051 305026 026 020 000 03
210100 1603N 05050W 6951 03193 0042 +118 +037 306026 026 022 000 00
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Re: ATL: IRMA - Main Recon Thread (Data only)

#1973 Postby Kingarabian » Sun Sep 03, 2017 4:03 pm

Image
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Re: ATL: IRMA - Main Recon Thread (Data only)

#1974 Postby GeneratorPower » Sun Sep 03, 2017 4:05 pm

Please post decoding info so we can understand the raw data.
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Re: ATL: IRMA - Hurricane - Discussion

#1975 Postby Sciencerocks » Sun Sep 03, 2017 4:08 pm

MississippiWx wrote:
GCANE wrote:Poleward outflow channel improving.
WV showing more flow into the ULL to the NE (27N, 30W)


Irma is growing.



Yep,

I remember saying 3 days ago that this thing looked like Iris of 2001...This is like 2-2.5 times as big now.
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Re: ATL: IRMA - Main Recon Thread (Data only)

#1976 Postby Kingarabian » Sun Sep 03, 2017 4:08 pm

Image
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Re: ATL: IRMA - Hurricane - Discussion

#1977 Postby GCANE » Sun Sep 03, 2017 4:08 pm

Blinhart wrote:
GCANE wrote:Poleward outflow channel improving.
WV showing more flow into the ULL to the NE (27N, 30W)



Dry Air is disappearing quickly, this could explode into a Cat 5 at anytime.


It seems that 50W is where TCs start picking up in many cases.
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Re: ATL: IRMA - Hurricane - Discussion

#1978 Postby ScottNAtlanta » Sun Sep 03, 2017 4:09 pm

psyclone wrote:
ScottNAtlanta wrote:I'm trying to get proactively prepared for Irma and remembered someone mentioning tension clips (plylox). Can anyone tell me where you can get them? They are harder to find than I anticipated


I'd look at home improvement places like home depot. absent that look online...with quick shipping of course..


Quickest online is the 8th...going to try some other places Tues locally
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Re: ATL: IRMA - Main Recon Thread (Data only)

#1979 Postby Kingarabian » Sun Sep 03, 2017 4:10 pm

GeneratorPower wrote:Please post decoding info so we can understand the raw data.


For HDOBS:

http://tropicalatlantic.com/recon/recon ... ge=decoder

From our fellow member Chris_In_Tampa
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Re: ATL: IRMA - Main Recon Thread (Data only)

#1980 Postby Chris_in_Tampa » Sun Sep 03, 2017 4:11 pm

Through 5:01pm EDT:

Image
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