ATL: MICHAEL - Post-Tropical - Discussion

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MetsIslesNoles
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Re: ATL: MICHAEL - Hurricane - Discussion

#861 Postby MetsIslesNoles » Mon Oct 08, 2018 12:59 pm

CWRobin wrote:
p1nheadlarry wrote:
CWRobin wrote:Here in Tallahassee, people were lining up last night to buy gas. Today, every market is a bit hectic and it should get worse by COB today. We know a nasty one is headed our way so people are preparing for the outages as best they can.


They'll need Gulf or FPL to help out, Tallahassee has their own city 'company' (for those not familiar with TLH)


Yeah, and the last time the city went without power, the company here was unable to handle the increased manning effectively. We had crews here with extra parts and the ability and they did not even stage them to get ready when the circuits turned off to get to work. It was a very "serialized" operation as opposed to operating in "parallel" with the extra crews. Oh well, that is what generators are for I suppose...


It'll be a bit better this time is my guess since the Mayor is running for Governor and there are already ads attacking him for how Hermine was handled.
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Re: ATL: MICHAEL - Hurricane - Discussion

#862 Postby floridasun78 » Mon Oct 08, 2018 12:59 pm

did plane find center more east and first go round?
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Re: ATL: MICHAEL - Hurricane - Discussion

#863 Postby Blow_Hard » Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:01 pm

gulf701 wrote:It appears that the population of coastal Gulf County are taking Michael seriously. I was in the grocery store adding to our volunteer fire department supplies and almost everyone was preparedness shopping. The BOCC has a mandatory evacuation for Cape San Blas, Indian Pass, Simmons Bayou and water side of US 98 in Highland View, WindMark, St. Joe Beach and Beacon Hill plus a voluntary evacuation of inland structures, low land areas, etc. All Gulf county coastal waters are closed due to rip currents, etc. Pray for us, this will be strongest storm we have faced. Will try to update the board as I can or upon request.



Yeah, if there are no track changes it would appear PSJ, Apalach, Carrabelle etc. are going to get the brunt of the storm. I just looked at the NWS Zone Forecast Products and for us in Panama City they only call for winds of 40-45mph with gusts to 60mph but over your way it calls for winds of 75-90 with gusts of 105+...the surge is going to be horrific I'm afraid...Cape San Blass, Indian Pass, St. George Island are all going to be in the Bull's Eye...
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Re: ATL: MICHAEL - Hurricane - Discussion

#864 Postby cycloneye » Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:02 pm

gulf701 wrote:It appears that the population of coastal Gulf County are taking Michael seriously. I was in the grocery store adding to our volunteer fire department supplies and almost everyone was preparedness shopping. The BOCC has a mandatory evacuation for Cape San Blas, Indian Pass, Simmons Bayou and water side of US 98 in Highland View, WindMark, St. Joe Beach and Beacon Hill plus a voluntary evacuation of inland structures, low land areas, etc. All Gulf county coastal waters are closed due to rip currents, etc. Pray for us, this will be strongest storm we have faced. Will try to update the board as I can or upon request.


To let you know that I moved your post from the 93L thread to here.Stay safe and when you can keep us informed.
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Re: ATL: MICHAEL - Hurricane - Discussion

#865 Postby GCANE » Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:05 pm

Gonzo on the way in.
I hope they show their live radar.
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Re: ATL: MICHAEL - Hurricane - Discussion

#866 Postby BYG Jacob » Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:05 pm

toad strangler wrote:
BYG Jacob wrote:Michael is an ugly looking storm right now.


Disagree. He's got that "shrimp" look that they get before intensification.

One ugly shrimp
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Re: ATL: MICHAEL - Hurricane - Discussion

#867 Postby cheezyWXguy » Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:07 pm

toad strangler wrote:
BYG Jacob wrote:Michael is an ugly looking storm right now.


Disagree. He's got that "shrimp" look that they get before intensification.


Sort of. The main hindrance to rapid intensification at this point is the mid level shear undercutting convection from the NW, causing that flat appearance in the NW quadrant. This, in combination with the potential for dry air intrusion as it interacts with Cuba (not much, but potentially enough), could be enough to slow Michael's ability to really tighten its inner core, at least in the short term. If that mid level shear backs off though, watch out.
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Re: ATL: MICHAEL - Hurricane - Discussion

#868 Postby NotoSans » Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:07 pm

The inner core still looks a bit too broad (as per microwave imagery and VDM) for rapid intensification right now.
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Re: ATL: INVEST 93L - Discussion

#869 Postby Michele B » Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:08 pm

gulf701 wrote:It appears that the population of coastal Gulf County are taking Michael seriously. I was in the grocery store adding to our volunteer fire department supplies and almost everyone was preparedness shopping. The BOCC has a mandatory evacuation for Cape San Blas, Indian Pass, Simmons Bayou and water side of US 98 in Highland View, WindMark, St. Joe Beach and Beacon Hill plus a voluntary evacuation of inland structures, low land areas, etc. All Gulf county coastal waters are closed due to rip currents, etc. Pray for us, this will be strongest storm we have faced. Will try to update the board as I can or upon request.


Good to know some in its path are taking it seriously.
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Re: ATL: MICHAEL - Hurricane - Discussion

#870 Postby Hammy » Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:10 pm

Image Center visible at extreme edge of the radar.

http://www.cnr.camaguey.cu/ From a new (higher resolution) site, you might want to update your bookmarks
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Re: ATL: MICHAEL - Hurricane - Discussion

#871 Postby wxman57 » Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:10 pm

I ran the SLOSH model for an average-sized Cat 3 landfall striking the FL Panhandle from the SSE. Note that the image below depicts MULTIPLE possible tracks, so the numbers are only going to be valid for where the center makes landfall and a little to the right of that. If it makes landfall near Panama City, then the surge could be 9-11 ft. It would have to make landfall near or a little east of Apalachicola for that 20.5ft surge to impact Apalachee Bay. Fortunately, the Florida Panhandle has some relatively deep water not far offshore, so the surge will be much lower (about 1/3 the height) of the same storm striking Louisiana or Mississippi.

Image
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Re: ATL: MICHAEL - Hurricane - Discussion

#872 Postby toad strangler » Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:11 pm

cheezyWXguy wrote:
toad strangler wrote:
BYG Jacob wrote:Michael is an ugly looking storm right now.


Disagree. He's got that "shrimp" look that they get before intensification.


Sort of. The main hindrance to rapid intensification at this point is the mid level shear undercutting convection from the NW, causing that flat appearance in the NW quadrant. This, in combination with the potential for dry air intrusion as it interacts with Cuba (not much, but potentially enough), could be enough to slow Michael's ability to really tighten its inner core, at least in the short term. If that mid level shear backs off though, watch out.


I did say intensification. Did not say Rapid.
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Re: ATL: MICHAEL - Hurricane - Discussion

#873 Postby eastcoastFL » Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:12 pm

The trop storm force windfield shrunk a little which im guessing is due to organizing?


Hurricane-force winds extend outward up to 30 miles (45 km) from
the center and tropical-storm-force winds extend outward up to 175
miles (280 km).
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Re: ATL: MICHAEL - Hurricane - Discussion

#874 Postby cheezyWXguy » Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:13 pm

Question, though: The ensembles posted in this thread earlier today show the stronger members on the eastern side of the guidance envelope. Shouldn't it be the other way around?

I ask because as wxman57 pointed out, major hurricanes in the northern GOM usually weaken as they approach landfall as the interact with whatever trough that tends to pick them up. A path further east would imply that the trough is exercising more influence over Michael, likely inducing more shear or dry air. However, if the path remained further west, would that not imply less influence from the trough, and therefore a more favorable environment until landfall?
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Re: ATL: MICHAEL - Hurricane - Discussion

#875 Postby floridasun78 » Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:13 pm

Hammy wrote:https://i.imgur.com/eFGFqxQ.png Center visible at extreme edge of the radar.

http://www.cnr.camaguey.cu/ From a new (higher resolution) site, you might want to update your bookmarks

for now rain been not getting south fl yet
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Re: ATL: MICHAEL - Hurricane - Discussion

#876 Postby nativefloridian » Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:18 pm

MetsIslesNoles wrote:
CWRobin wrote:
p1nheadlarry wrote:
They'll need Gulf or FPL to help out, Tallahassee has their own city 'company' (for those not familiar with TLH)


Yeah, and the last time the city went without power, the company here was unable to handle the increased manning effectively. We had crews here with extra parts and the ability and they did not even stage them to get ready when the circuits turned off to get to work. It was a very "serialized" operation as opposed to operating in "parallel" with the extra crews. Oh well, that is what generators are for I suppose...


It'll be a bit better this time is my guess since the Mayor is running for Governor and there are already ads attacking him for how Hermine was handled.


Hopefully the City Manager in Tallahassee will get it right this time for ya'll. Best wishes for a good outcome!
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Re: ATL: MICHAEL - Hurricane - Discussion

#877 Postby cheezyWXguy » Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:20 pm

toad strangler wrote:
cheezyWXguy wrote:
toad strangler wrote:
Disagree. He's got that "shrimp" look that they get before intensification.


Sort of. The main hindrance to rapid intensification at this point is the mid level shear undercutting convection from the NW, causing that flat appearance in the NW quadrant. This, in combination with the potential for dry air intrusion as it interacts with Cuba (not much, but potentially enough), could be enough to slow Michael's ability to really tighten its inner core, at least in the short term. If that mid level shear backs off though, watch out.


I did say intensification. Did not say Rapid.


Rapid was probably a poor word choice on my part, but the allusion to the shrimp look, or as it is sometimes called, a 'fist' or a '9' etc, usually applies to the appearance of a storm shortly prior to undergoing RI. Additionally, based on the intensity forecasts of various models, there is some kind of a chance that this could rapidly intensify in the next 24-36hrs. My bad on making the assumption of your words, but at least in the near term, mid level shear is the primary hindrance to intensification, rapid or not.
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Re: ATL: MICHAEL - Hurricane - Discussion

#878 Postby GBPackMan » Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:20 pm

Western panhandle here (Fort Walton/Niceville area), filled up with gas, picked up some water and food this weekend, otherwise it should be business as usual here. Majority of businesses and schools are still on for the rest of the week, business as usual, although I suspect many will close for Wednesday just to be safe. Personally I've been here for Ivan, Dennis, Katrina, and every other storm since 2000. This one will likely be weaker than many of the summer thunderstorms we've had lately that have dumped 2-4" of rain per hour.

Remember this is just my opinion, so take it as such.
So based on the info I've seen and learned (based on the past 18 years of learning what affects what), from studying not just one model, not just parroting what NHC or NOAA or TWC says, but actually studying the forces from a distance similar to what the models do, this is what I see. Some may disagree but so far every storm I've chimed in on here I have been very close if not spot on (Irma, Nate, etc), even when others disagreed. I may be wrong here, it wouldn't be the first time, and will not be the last.

The 3 most trusted intensity models based on the 12z Oct 8 runs paint this as a mid to strong Cat1 (80-90 mph), with lower potential of weak Cat 2 at or close to landfall (90-100mph). There is better potential of intensifying to Cat 2 within 24-36 hours before landfall, but dropping back off to Cat 1 as it gets closer to land. Nowhere close to Cat 3-4 Opal. The extreme outlier models that haven't ever been correct are pushing the strength into the weak Cat 3 level, and some other outliers that are never right having it drop from Cat 1 back to TS by Tuesday morning until landfall (better chance of this happening than seeing a Cat 3). The rest of the models that are much more trustworthy and tend to be much closer to what really happens with past mid-late season storms, are keeping it as a mid to strong Cat 1 at landfall (80-90mph). Intensity info easily found on tropicaltidbits.

With the drier mid level shear coming from the Pacific and Yucatan side, plus the dry upper level shear from the trough (meaning additional dry cool air in that outflow), plus the low level winds coming in off the Atlantic, all means there are 3 different stronger flows pushing things in different directions. The flow from the Atlantic will weaken over the next 24h as the Atlantic high moves further east removing at least one inhibitor. Add in the fall temperatures over land in the southeastern US dipping into the 60s at night getting drawn into the storm, all these pieces will limit intensification to the Cat 1 (or weak Cat 2) level. Chance of short term (24h) RI to Cat 3 or stronger is very unlikely, I believe there are just too many external forces to allow that kind of RI. Long term (48h) intensification to that level is also unlikely because of the items mentioned above. Intensity info easily found on tropicaltidbits.

As for the path: the southern edge of the jet stream trough is still hanging tight to western TX with strengthening along the eastern edge of the front over the central plains, which provides a bit of a wall and push the storm a bit further east than previously expected. This is why I believe the next few updates will keep bumping landfall slightly east each time. Most models expected that trough to weaken and southern edge be pushed up into OK/KS by noon local time (or at least the TX panhandle), but it hasn't. With the Pacific storm Sergio outflow pushing mid level winds across Mexico (greatly drying out the air) and into the Gulf, plus the Atlantic High pushing east, and that trough movement slower than expected, I believe that means much more likely spot of landfall is just east of Panama City, somewhere in the vicinity of Mexico Beach to Port St Joe, potentially as far east as Apalachicola. It may continue the North run over the next 24h with minor wobbles west and east, but the 2 major players will have it making a bit tighter turn NNE approximately 12-16h before landfall.

Movement speed: That slower trough movement I believe should also help speed up Michael as it gets closer to land, weakening it faster and tearing it apart to spread the liquid sunshine across most of the east coast through the rest of the week. 24h from now (Oct 9 13:00 Central, 18z) it should be W of Sarasota, with landfall sometime around 16:00-18:00 Central just east of Panama City. That shows a fairly rapid movement speed increase as it gets closer to the panhandle. This is primarily why I suggest the place and timeframe that I do. If the trough fell back like the models expected, landfall would be further west (between Ft Walton and Panama City sometime late Wednesday/early Thursday), but so far that has not happened.
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Re: ATL: MICHAEL - Hurricane - Discussion

#879 Postby bella_may » Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:23 pm

Has the speed increased with this storm? Is that why models are taking it a little bit more west? Or has the cold front in Texas slowed down? Thanks in advance.
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Re: ATL: MICHAEL - Hurricane - Discussion

#880 Postby chaser1 » Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:24 pm

wxman57 wrote:I ran the SLOSH model for an average-sized Cat 3 landfall striking the FL Panhandle from the SSE. Note that the image below depicts MULTIPLE possible tracks, so the numbers are only going to be valid for where the center makes landfall and a little to the right of that. If it makes landfall near Panama City, then the surge could be 9-11 ft. It would have to make landfall near or a little east of Apalachicola for that 20.5ft surge to impact Apalachee Bay. Fortunately, the Florida Panhandle has some relatively deep water not far offshore, so the surge will be much lower (about 1/3 the height) of the same storm striking Louisiana or Mississippi.

http://wxman57.com/images/MichaelSurge.JPG


The difference is amazing between max (Cat 3) surge near Panama City vs. Apalachca Bay. Didn't realize there'd be that much of a difference. In addition to the shallower waters further east, I suppose there's also the fact that a greater forcing of water "pile-up" would exist to the east, where'as further west along the Panhandle the increased storm surge can at least spread out a greater distance perpendicular to the coastline?
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