ATL: ISAIAS - Models

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Re: ATL: INVEST 92L - Models

#781 Postby caneseddy » Tue Jul 28, 2020 1:28 am

SoupBone wrote:
WeatherEmperor wrote:Into South Florida as a TS at 120hrs

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200728/308b1bacaca0a1dd1ea362e49a45e618.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk





It would be really moving fast to be there by Sunday.


That’s another trend I noticed. The fact that the models are speeding this up.

Euro- TS storm into south Florida on Sunday
CMC: Hurricane scraping outer banks on Tuesday
HWRF: Hurricane in the Bahamas by Saturday
Navgem: Hurricane off southeast Florida on Saturday
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Re: ATL: INVEST 92L - Models

#782 Postby CM2 » Tue Jul 28, 2020 1:33 am

Well remember the most potent waters in the atlantic are RIGHT in that area. Once it moves north from the bahamas, it can only get stronger.
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Re: ATL: INVEST 92L - Models

#783 Postby STRiZZY » Tue Jul 28, 2020 1:33 am

Around the 90hr mark the Euro starts to ramp it up only for it to then interact with Cuba. If it had avoided it I think it could have made a good run at a strong TS/cat1 before hitting SWFL. It only made it to about 50kts before it hit.
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Re: ATL: INVEST 92L - Models

#784 Postby CM2 » Tue Jul 28, 2020 1:37 am

STRiZZY wrote:Around the 90hr mark the Euro starts to ramp it up only for it to then interact with Cuba. If it had avoided it I think it could have made a good run at a strong TS/cat1 before hitting SWFL. It only made it to about 50kts before it hit.

I never took the intensity to heart on any of these runs, the Important thing is the trends between runs and the over all census on larger steering, shearing, and other structures that effect tropical development and position. The important thing to take from tonight is that models has a spike in expected intensity, a spike in storm speed, and a much further west movement. A very shocking night indeed in terms of early tropical modeling. Flipped all the notions given to us by the models on their heads in a SINGLE RUN.
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Re: ATL: INVEST 92L - Models

#785 Postby STRiZZY » Tue Jul 28, 2020 1:38 am

between 144hr-156hr it's sorta just chilling 75mi west of Naples.. wonder if it's going to restrengthen?
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Re: ATL: INVEST 92L - Models

#786 Postby tailgater » Tue Jul 28, 2020 1:39 am

Knocking on Tampa’s door
Image
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Re: ATL: INVEST 92L - Models

#787 Postby CM2 » Tue Jul 28, 2020 1:40 am


And there we have it, a gulf storm is back on the table. Great.
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Re: ATL: INVEST 92L - Models

#788 Postby STRiZZY » Tue Jul 28, 2020 1:41 am



Yep, and if we take intensity verbatim this run it's just chilling moving slowly back towards central FL as a depression.
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Re: ATL: INVEST 92L - Models

#789 Postby STRiZZY » Tue Jul 28, 2020 1:44 am

Euro is showing some pretty gnarly SW shear in the Gulf keeping it from intensifying.
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Re: ATL: INVEST 92L - Models

#790 Postby CM2 » Tue Jul 28, 2020 1:46 am

STRiZZY wrote:Euro is showing some pretty gnarly SW shear in the Gulf keeping it from intensifying.

Considering the previous run had this puppy off the coast of mexico just the previous run as a wave, I think we should not look at any model in piticular details, models are horrible at the details far out.
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Re: ATL: INVEST 92L - Models

#791 Postby STRiZZY » Tue Jul 28, 2020 1:48 am

CM2 wrote:
STRiZZY wrote:Euro is showing some pretty gnarly SW shear in the Gulf keeping it from intensifying.

Considering the previous run had this puppy off the coast of mexico just the previous run as a wave, I think we should not look at any model in piticular details, models are horrible at the details far out.
https://imgur.com/uZg5rMZ


I'm just posting what this particular model run is showing. Not saying any of this is going to happen. Just giving a play by play.
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Re: ATL: INVEST 92L - Models

#792 Postby CM2 » Tue Jul 28, 2020 1:49 am

You know what's completely narley is the damn eddies that resemble the FV3-GFS that the euro is popping out. Wow... I do not know what to think. It's 2016 all over again, the models are trash again. I do not know anymore.
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Re: ATL: INVEST 92L - Models

#793 Postby CM2 » Tue Jul 28, 2020 1:51 am

STRiZZY wrote:
CM2 wrote:
STRiZZY wrote:Euro is showing some pretty gnarly SW shear in the Gulf keeping it from intensifying.

Considering the previous run had this puppy off the coast of mexico just the previous run as a wave, I think we should not look at any model in piticular details, models are horrible at the details far out.
https://imgur.com/uZg5rMZ


I'm just posting what this particular model run is showing. Not saying any of this is going to happen. Just giving a play by play.

Yeah, just there are MUCH bigger implications this run. VERY BIG implications. Very scary implications.
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Re: ATL: INVEST 92L - Models

#794 Postby STRiZZY » Tue Jul 28, 2020 1:51 am

Spends about 2.5 days meandering west of central FL before it moves ashore near Hernando Beach.
Last edited by STRiZZY on Tue Jul 28, 2020 1:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ATL: INVEST 92L - Models

#795 Postby STRiZZY » Tue Jul 28, 2020 1:52 am

CM2 wrote:
STRiZZY wrote:
CM2 wrote:Considering the previous run had this puppy off the coast of mexico just the previous run as a wave, I think we should not look at any model in piticular details, models are horrible at the details far out.
https://imgur.com/uZg5rMZ


I'm just posting what this particular model run is showing. Not saying any of this is going to happen. Just giving a play by play.

Yeah, just there are MUCH bigger implications this run. VERY BIG implications. Very scary implications.


Yeah again I get what you're saying but I never implied anything. Just posting about the model run in the model thread.
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Re: ATL: INVEST 92L - Models

#796 Postby CM2 » Tue Jul 28, 2020 1:56 am

STRiZZY wrote:
CM2 wrote:
STRiZZY wrote:
I'm just posting what this particular model run is showing. Not saying any of this is going to happen. Just giving a play by play.

Yeah, just there are MUCH bigger implications this run. VERY BIG implications. Very scary implications.


Yeah again I get what you're saying but I never implied anything. Just posting about the model run in the model thread.

I'm not accusing you of implying anything, just the 00z runs of these models (and the fact the Euro, the most trusted and respected model) also went completely waco) changed so much between a single run that it flipped the narrative we've been talking about on it's head. Since 3 days ago we were talking about it possibly being a fish storm or not even zoming into existance with a weakening and eastward trend. Suddenly in a single run it's off the coast of Florida as a decent hurricane and even the euro has it entering the Gulf, something that had not been seen for a few days even among essemble members. And this is 120 hours out, a time frame we supposedly got much better at modeling. Everything has been flipped on it's head. Everything is Bananas. The models can not even be trusted to give a general idea at this point.
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Re: ATL: INVEST 92L - Models

#797 Postby STRiZZY » Tue Jul 28, 2020 2:02 am

CM2 wrote:
STRiZZY wrote:
CM2 wrote:Yeah, just there are MUCH bigger implications this run. VERY BIG implications. Very scary implications.


Yeah again I get what you're saying but I never implied anything. Just posting about the model run in the model thread.

I'm not accusing you of implying anything, just the 00z runs of these models (and the fact the Euro, the most trusted and respected model) also went completely waco) changed so much between a single run that it flipped the narrative we've been talking about on it's head. Since 3 days ago we were talking about it possibly being a fish storm or not even zoming into existance with a weakening and eastward trend. Suddenly in a single run it's off the coast of Florida as a decent hurricane and even the euro has it entering the Gulf, something that had not been seen for a few days even among essemble members. And this is 120 hours out, a time frame we supposedly got much better at modeling. Everything has been flipped on it's head. Everything is Bananas. The models can not even be trusted to give a general idea at this point.


The Euro went completely wacko? It was maybe 50mi north of 12z. That's not far off of it's previous few runs tbh.
It's just those 50 some odd miles put it in a more favorable position in regards to the Greater Antilles and gave it a little room to breathe.
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Re: ATL: INVEST 92L - Models

#798 Postby USTropics » Tue Jul 28, 2020 2:06 am

Something I've noticed over the past 2 days of runs, the low-level axis has been tilted NE to SW currently, and we're left with two areas where air flow becomes divergent (or a NE lobe and a SW lobe attached to the wave axis).

Image

Image

In the short term, we'll have to see if the SW lobe of the wave becomes the dominant feature. You can see currently there's a bit of a boxing match going on at the low levels between these two lobes:

Image

As the axis approaches the Caribbean, if one of the lobes does not become the dominant feature, you'll notice the axis (blue) becomes more N to S oriented (natural process as these tropical waves enter the Caribbean due to low-level flow). Low-level easterly flow is cutting straight through the eastern Caribbean (red) which reduces the chance of the southern lobe developing. This easterly flow is also on the northern axis of the wave, but due to the proximity to the upper-level trough, the wind direction change from lower to upper levels is favoring development on the northern side of the axis now.
Image


Once we establish genesis, intensity becomes important. Levi does a great job of explaining this on his video (https://www.tropicaltidbits.com/), but essentially you can see the trough axis (yellow gradient) directly to the NW:
Image

Through diabatic outflow, a tropical system can actually impinge on this trough axis, and essentially move it out of the way (or in some cases, even create ideal upper-level outflow, as we saw with Dorian last year). Previous runs that showed a more developed system were essentially strengthening here due to the storm having a protective bubble and impressive outflow. If you remove those conditions, a weaker tropical system will be sheared by the trough axis (as some model solutions now show).
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Re: ATL: INVEST 92L - Models

#799 Postby CM2 » Tue Jul 28, 2020 2:10 am

STRiZZY wrote:The Euro went completely wacko? It was maybe 50mi north of 12z. That's not far off of it's previous few runs tbh.
It's just those 50 some odd miles put in it a more favorable position in regards to the Greater Antilles and gave it a little room to breathe.

Well granted there is a 400 mile difference when it's sitting off Tampa Bay vs Cancun in the 12z. The behavior is quite different between the 2 runs, the euro also bumped it's intensity quite a bit compared to previous runs even in the short term. The entire agenda the models gave to us about the storm has now been flipped on it's head.
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Re: ATL: INVEST 92L - Models

#800 Postby CM2 » Tue Jul 28, 2020 2:14 am

USTropics wrote:Something I've noticed over the past 2 days of runs, the low-level axis has been tilted NE to SW currently, and we're left with two areas where air flow becomes divergent (or a NE lobe and a SW lobe attached to the wave axis).

https://i.imgur.com/iZqTmcc.png

https://i.imgur.com/9NZ8jHc.png

In the short term, we'll have to see if the SW lobe of the wave becomes the dominant feature. You can see currently there's a bit of a boxing match going on at the low levels between these two lobes:

https://i.imgur.com/J5EQHez.gif

As the axis approaches the Caribbean, if one of the lobes does not become the dominant feature, you'll notice the axis (blue) becomes more N to S oriented (natural process as these tropical waves enter the Caribbean due to low-level flow). Low-level easterly flow is cutting straight through the eastern Caribbean (red) which reduces the chance of the southern lobe developing. This easterly flow is also on the northern axis of the wave, but due to the proximity to the upper-level trough, the wind direction change from lower to upper levels is favoring development on the northern side of the axis now.
https://i.imgur.com/SxeBCQ2.png


Once we establish genesis, intensity becomes important. Levi does a great job of explaining this on his video (https://www.tropicaltidbits.com/), but essentially you can see the trough axis (yellow gradient) directly to the NW:
https://i.imgur.com/xx9EDc6.png

Through diabatic outflow, a tropical system can actually impinge on this trough axis, and essentially move it out of the way (or in some cases, even create ideal upper-level outflow, as we saw with Dorian last year). Previous runs that showed a more developed system were essentially strengthening here due to the storm having a protective bubble and impressive outflow. If you remove those conditions, a weaker tropical system will be sheared by the trough axis (as some model solutions now show).

This is an amazing post on what occured recently. I guess those upper level features are as hard to forcast as they've always have been does explain just about everything though. Appreciated! :D
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