ATL: ELSA - Post-Tropical - Discussion

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Re: ATL: ELSA - Hurricane - Discussion

#4321 Postby typhoonty » Tue Jul 06, 2021 7:59 pm

wxman57 wrote:70-75kts again east of the center with 50kt SFMR. Not far east of those 50kt SFMR winds, coastal obs are blowing from the east at 15-20 kts. Strong winds at FL are from the south. I would wager that the 50kt SFMR wind may be closer to the wind gusts near the surface than sustained wind, with only 1002 mb pressure. This morning, the plane found around 50 kt SFMR wind near Key West when it was reporting sustained 28 kts gusting 45 kts.


The buoy 42023 about 50 nm west of me in KFMY recorded sustained winds over a 90 minute period of 45 kt, max 50 kt sustained with gusts past hurricane force, at only ~3m. 50 kt widespread gusts are likely across the Bay area just based off that data point if it doesn't weaken. I personally wouldn't be surprised if the hurricane warning doesn't verify, at least in gusts, in Pinellas county. They've had some surprisingly high wind reports in previous tropical cyclones. Colin and Hermine both had with gusts to 70 mph in Pinellas county, both either much weaker or further away.
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Re: ATL: ELSA - Hurricane - Discussion

#4322 Postby DestinHurricane » Tue Jul 06, 2021 8:02 pm

I agree with wxman57 here, NHC jumped the gun on hurricane. There are no obs that suggest hurricane force and a blend of recon data is under 65 kt. Likely a 55-60 knot ts.
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Re: ATL: ELSA - Hurricane - Discussion

#4323 Postby wxman57 » Tue Jul 06, 2021 8:02 pm

InfernoFlameCat wrote:
wxman57 wrote:
psyclone wrote:
What intensity do you think the system is?


Looks about 50 kts. Don't know if I'd go as high as 55 kts. Those southerly winds at FL of 40-45 kts (similar SFMR) just west of Sarasota compare to an east wind at 25 kts at Sarasota. That's odd to have them 90 degrees different.

Did you see the buoy reports?


Buoy right where plane found 50kt SFMR wind is reporting 39 kts sustained as its max. Buoy the center passed an hour or so ago had 48 gusting 68 kts. Nothing over 50 kts.
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Re: ATL: ELSA - Hurricane - Discussion

#4324 Postby ElectricStorm » Tue Jul 06, 2021 8:03 pm

DestinHurricane wrote:I agree with wxman57 here, NHC jumped the gun on hurricane. There are no obs that suggest hurricane force and a blend of recon data is under 65 kt. Likely a 55-60 knot ts.

Maybe but I personally wouldn't make that call until recon samples the eyewall feature around the MLC. NHC mentioned they upgraded based on radar data and that's the strongest area by far on radar.
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Re: ATL: ELSA - Hurricane - Discussion

#4325 Postby Hypercane_Kyle » Tue Jul 06, 2021 8:04 pm

DestinHurricane wrote:I agree with wxman57 here, NHC jumped the gun on hurricane. There are no obs that suggest hurricane force and a blend of recon data is under 65 kt. Likely a 55-60 knot ts.


No, I don't think they jumped the gun. I think that Elsa ramped down just as quickly as she ramped up. The storm was objectively better organized 2 hours ago and has really taken a hit on radar. Recon simply missed it.

I agree that this is currently a ~55 knot TS based on recon, but I do not agree that the NHC "jumped the gun" on anything. Stewart made the right call based on the data he had. He wouldn't work for the NHC if he showed anything other than excellence in his judgement.
Last edited by Hypercane_Kyle on Tue Jul 06, 2021 8:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ATL: ELSA - Hurricane - Discussion

#4326 Postby CDO62 » Tue Jul 06, 2021 8:05 pm

wxman57 wrote:I would be curious as to what evidence there is of surface winds to 74 mph. You cannot convert those FL winds down to the surface with the normal reduction in a storm like this. SFMR certainly doesn't indicate any wind above 50 kts yet. Pressure up a little since this morning. SFMR winds were higher this morning.


Might it have just been done in an abundance of caution? Visible satellite showed what looked like the low level center attempting to tuck under the deepest convection to the East. One of our well seasoned local tv meteorologist here in the Tampa market also made note of the system possibly becoming vertically stacked.
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Re: ATL: ELSA - Hurricane - Discussion

#4327 Postby tolakram » Tue Jul 06, 2021 8:06 pm

DestinHurricane wrote:I agree with wxman57 here, NHC jumped the gun on hurricane. There are no obs that suggest hurricane force and a blend of recon data is under 65 kt. Likely a 55-60 knot ts.


Last time they waited it ended up having hurricane force winds in the islands and they had to do a special advisory. I do NOT agree they jumped the gun, and this points out my observation earlier that whatever they do seems to displease someone. Very frustrating. :)
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Re: ATL: ELSA - Hurricane - Discussion

#4328 Postby wxman57 » Tue Jul 06, 2021 8:06 pm

CDO62 wrote:
wxman57 wrote:I would be curious as to what evidence there is of surface winds to 74 mph. You cannot convert those FL winds down to the surface with the normal reduction in a storm like this. SFMR certainly doesn't indicate any wind above 50 kts yet. Pressure up a little since this morning. SFMR winds were higher this morning.


Might it have just been done in an abundance of caution? Visible satellite showed what looked like the low level center attempting to tuck under the deepest convection to the East. One of our well seasoned local tv meteorologist here in the Tampa market also made note of the system possibly becoming vertically stacked.


Most definitely being cautious. That's their job. My job is to provide an accurate wind forecast for clients.
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Re: ATL: ELSA - Hurricane - Discussion

#4329 Postby Nimbus » Tue Jul 06, 2021 8:07 pm

8 PM 42013 42.7 sustained 56.3 gust.
Blew hard for just a half hour but that could cause some power issues up in St Pete soon.
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Re: ATL: ELSA - Hurricane - Discussion

#4330 Postby typhoonty » Tue Jul 06, 2021 8:08 pm

wxman57 wrote:
psyclone wrote:
wxman57 wrote:Yep, Stewart just upgraded it to a hurricane. He's known to be very quick to upgrade, which has gotten him into a bit of trouble at times.


What intensity do you think the system is?


Looks about 50 kts. Don't know if I'd go as high as 55 kts. Those southerly winds at FL of 40-45 kts (similar SFMR) just west of Sarasota compare to an east wind at 25 kts at Sarasota. That's odd to have them 90 degrees different.


I can confirm the pressure field for Eta was very underwhelming. My minimum pressure was 1013 mbs on a kestrel 5500 and I was 60 miles from the storm center. It does bode well for storm surge values and is likely why NHC didn't increase them despite calling for -- and upgrading -- Esla.
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Re: ATL: ELSA - Hurricane - Discussion

#4331 Postby StormPyrate » Tue Jul 06, 2021 8:10 pm

Still very calm here in Clearwater, the storm must be super small. Never been this close to a tropical storm with such small impacts. We get a little gust of wind occasionally, still no rain to speak of. Nothing even close to registering in the gauge.
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Re: ATL: ELSA - Hurricane - Discussion

#4332 Postby Dean_175 » Tue Jul 06, 2021 8:13 pm

In the Fort Myers area: has been rainy all day, but so far little wind. Has stayed mostly offshore here.

It felt no more impressive than a cold front- though now it has picked up a bit in the past couple of hours.
Last edited by Dean_175 on Tue Jul 06, 2021 8:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ATL: ELSA - Hurricane - Discussion

#4333 Postby Spacecoast » Tue Jul 06, 2021 8:15 pm

Perhaps we should propose having taking categories out to two decimal places.
Category 0.99 Tropical cyclone?
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Re: ATL: ELSA - Hurricane - Discussion

#4334 Postby ElectricStorm » Tue Jul 06, 2021 8:18 pm

Recon turned north so hopefully they're heading towards that stronger band, although it doesn't look as strong on radar as it once did
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Re: ATL: ELSA - Hurricane - Discussion

#4335 Postby ElectricStorm » Tue Jul 06, 2021 8:20 pm

Eye drop coming in at 1003mb with 43kt wind, good for about 998-999mb. About the same as last pass
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Re: ATL: ELSA - Hurricane - Discussion

#4336 Postby jfk08c » Tue Jul 06, 2021 8:21 pm

Looks like it's trying to get a feeder established
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Re: ATL: ELSA - Hurricane - Discussion

#4337 Postby ElectricStorm » Tue Jul 06, 2021 8:22 pm

0z best track
05L ELSA 210707 0000 26.7N 83.2W ATL 65 996
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Re: ATL: ELSA - Hurricane - Discussion

#4338 Postby artist » Tue Jul 06, 2021 8:24 pm

Here is a saved loop showing its degradation from earlier.
Image
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Re: ATL: ELSA - Hurricane - Discussion

#4339 Postby Dean4Storms » Tue Jul 06, 2021 8:25 pm

Don't see any evidence of a hurricane and have to agree this is a strong TS and NHC is being cautious. There is simply nothing being found with sustained winds of 74mph or greater.
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Re: ATL: ELSA - Hurricane - Discussion

#4340 Postby Hypercane_Kyle » Tue Jul 06, 2021 8:26 pm

artist wrote:Here is a saved loop showing its degradation from earlier.
https://i.imgur.com/ngG2Mp0.gif


Yeah, every time it tries to get its act together dry air and shear manages to destroy its inner core. We'll probably see another episode of intensification before too long.
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