ATL: ERNESTO - Post-Tropical

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BobHarlem
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Re: ATL: ERNESTO - Models

#2261 Postby BobHarlem » Sat Aug 04, 2012 11:01 am

HouTXmetro wrote:What a BOLD prediction Weatherfreak! When I go against the NHC I'm wrong, when I go with the NHC i.e. Debby I'm wrong. I just give up. trying to guess where these things are going.


It's not too bold, Honduras is in the cone. Felix and Dean from 2007 are good indicators of a situation like this.
Last edited by BobHarlem on Sat Aug 04, 2012 11:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ATL: ERNESTO - Tropical Storm

#2262 Postby cycloneye » Sat Aug 04, 2012 11:01 am

JamesCaneTracker wrote:
cycloneye wrote:Lowest pressure at recent pass is 1005.4 mbs.

0054


There was a 1004.4 reading as well...

155330 1429N 06844W 8435 01529 0044 +193 +091 062010 016 030 006 03


Yes,I fixed my post. So pressure is falling now.
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#2263 Postby brunota2003 » Sat Aug 04, 2012 11:04 am

They had to readjust and fly back to get the center...they missed it the first time.
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Re: ATL: ERNESTO - Tropical Storm

#2264 Postby Stormlover2012 » Sat Aug 04, 2012 11:05 am

gfdl might get it right but it till be cen tex so sw la if it gets it right
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Re: ATL: ERNESTO - Tropical Storm

#2265 Postby Hurricaneman » Sat Aug 04, 2012 11:07 am

I'm thinking we had a center relocation overnight and this is the beginning of steady strengthening if not significant strengthening
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#2266 Postby Hurricane Andrew » Sat Aug 04, 2012 11:07 am

[quote="brunota2003"]Someone tell them that a TomTom doesn't work too well in the middle of the ocean, please!

000
URNT15 KNHC 041554
AF309 0405A ERNESTO HDOB 36 20120804
154530 1429N 06900W 8428 01554 0069 +190 +101 039018 021 026 002 00
154600 1428N 06859W 8425 01555 0068 +188 +101 022017 018 028 002 00
154630 1427N 06857W 8433 01548 0068 +188 +099 007016 017 028 001 00
154700 1426N 06856W 8428 01552 0066 +190 +098 355015 017 028 000 03
154730 1425N 06855W 8421 01557 0072 +183 +098 330013 014 031 003 00
154800 1424N 06853W 8428 01556 0076 +177 +098 303013 014 031 003 03
154830 1425N 06851W 8430 01550 0071 +183 +098 336010 012 032 003 00
154900 1427N 06850W 8430 01550 0065 +187 +099 015011 011 031 001 00
154930 1427N 06849W 8435 01536 0060 +188 +100 030012 013 029 000 03
155000 1427N 06847W 8420 01550 0056 +184 +101 017012 013 035 003 00
155030 1426N 06845W 8426 01540 0054 +180 +100 340012 013 043 010 00
155100 1426N 06844W 8417 01552 0069 +157 +099 270015 018 045 012 03
155130 1426N 06842W 8419 01544 0063 +160 +096 243026 030 /// /// 03
155200 1427N 06841W 8428 01538 0070 +160 +094 204024 032 049 051 03
155230 1429N 06841W 8451 01520 0074 +163 +093 127021 024 /// /// 03
155300 1430N 06842W 8413 01552 0056 +181 +092 110019 024 /// /// 03
155330 1429N 06844W 8435 01529 0044 +193 +091 062010 016 030 006 03
155400 1427N 06844W 8412 01549 0059 +169 +091 331015 020 030 006 03
155430 1426N 06843W 8435 01525 0066 +152 +091 255026 032 045 023 03
155500 1426N 06843W 8435 01525 0065 +152 +090 238027 033 061 040 00
$$
;

[quote]

I don't get it.
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Re: ATL: ERNESTO - Recon Discussions - Comments - Questions

#2267 Postby brunota2003 » Sat Aug 04, 2012 11:08 am

I thought this was amusing...they "literally" closed off the center...well, at least we now know Ernesto has a closed LLC! :lol:

Image
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Re: ATL: ERNESTO - Tropical Storm

#2268 Postby Shuriken » Sat Aug 04, 2012 11:08 am

The plane is finding that Ernesto is barely a TS, despite its appearance on satellite. Surface obs (buoy to the north) and recon don't lie. Satellite can be VERY deceiving when trying to estimate surface conditions in the tropics. Clearly, Ernesto is struggling as the models had forecast. Low-level convergence appears to be lacking
Surface obs and recon are very sparse, while satellite "gets the whole picture" (so to speak) every :15 or :30. I'm seeing an inner core CDO-ish structure powerfully venting at 200mb now, and that's almost always a prelude to rapid intensification. If the surface lags, my guess would be that the storm is now well developed at the 700+ mb level, and it's just a matter of time (hours) before a probably sloppy multi-whirled, slightly-displaced-to-the-southwest LLC is sucked back under the hot tower and tightens.
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Re: ATL: ERNESTO - Tropical Storm

#2269 Postby sphelps1965 » Sat Aug 04, 2012 11:09 am

Stormlover2012 wrote:gfdl might get it right but it till be cen tex so sw la if it gets it right


Are you not suppose to put a disclaimer when you make predictions like this. Woud it not be better in the models thread.
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Re: ATL: ERNESTO - Tropical Storm

#2270 Postby Blinhart » Sat Aug 04, 2012 11:09 am

brunota2003 wrote:
Blinhart wrote:
brunota2003 wrote:For those that think the NHC is wrong...Recon has been through all 4 quadrants of Ernesto and has found SFMR values of up to 40 to 43 knots. The 50 knot reading was in an area of heavy rain (thus inflated by the rain). So, going off of the available data, 45 knots is the strongest everything has shown.

On another subject:

Now, CIMSS ADT values are at or just below the 4.0 range (65 knots). Goes to show just how off those sat estimates can be at times, and that recon is very important!


Recon has only sampled the North and West side of the storm, still hasn't touched the East or South East side. The parts they have sampled have been hindered by Dry Air, so I think it was irresponsible of the NHC to lower intensity when they haven't gotten a full sample yet.

They have sampled the Southern/SE side:
http://i.imgur.com/WelMz.jpg (Not going to post it as an image).

Now, is it possible that on this next pass through, the winds may have finally responded to the deep convection? Yes. But the forecasters can't sit there and go "oh, well, there *might* eventually be higher winds, so lets keep the current intensity higher than what all the data thus far has shown!" They have to go with the data, especially with recon in the system.



That Image doesn't actually show where the storm was at the time they went to those points, that is just the overall flight pattern, the storm has moved to the west since then.
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Re:

#2271 Postby brunota2003 » Sat Aug 04, 2012 11:10 am

Hurricane Andrew wrote:
brunota2003 wrote:Someone tell them that a TomTom doesn't work too well in the middle of the ocean, please!

I don't get it.

TomTom is the driving GPS device...look at the map attached to that post.
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#2272 Postby pcolaman » Sat Aug 04, 2012 11:10 am

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#2273 Postby Hurricane Andrew » Sat Aug 04, 2012 11:10 am

I was thinking TomTom like the drum.
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Re: ATL: ERNESTO - Tropical Storm

#2274 Postby Zanthe » Sat Aug 04, 2012 11:11 am

Stormlover2012 wrote:gfdl might get it right but it till be cen tex so sw la if it gets it right


Complete words are nice. Also, shouldn't this have a disclaimer? And be in the model thread?
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#2275 Postby pcolaman » Sat Aug 04, 2012 11:11 am

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Re: ATL: ERNESTO - Recon

#2276 Postby brunota2003 » Sat Aug 04, 2012 11:12 am

Most of the SFMR values look rain contaminated.

000
URNT15 KNHC 041604
AF309 0405A ERNESTO HDOB 37 20120804
155530 1424N 06840W 8409 01561 0081 +148 +089 220021 030 058 042 00
155600 1422N 06839W 8431 01545 0087 +147 +087 211032 035 059 041 03
155630 1421N 06838W 8457 01520 0090 +142 +086 179030 036 066 055 00
155700 1420N 06837W 8406 01573 0094 +142 +084 193036 036 060 048 00
155730 1419N 06836W 8443 01539 0102 +140 +082 184028 037 052 024 00
155800 1418N 06835W 8428 01559 0105 +136 +080 186025 028 051 015 00
155830 1417N 06834W 8414 01571 0107 +133 +078 184028 031 058 029 00
155900 1416N 06833W 8437 01549 0103 +145 +076 188023 029 057 026 00
155930 1415N 06832W 8418 01570 0104 +149 +075 196023 024 042 011 00
160000 1414N 06831W 8432 01558 0111 +140 +074 180026 028 039 014 00
160030 1413N 06830W 8419 01573 0115 +135 +074 198024 028 046 020 03
160100 1412N 06828W 8422 01568 0113 +138 +075 188024 028 063 033 00
160130 1411N 06827W 8426 01565 0110 +139 +077 181032 035 066 057 00
160200 1410N 06826W 8433 01561 0116 +134 +078 185035 036 068 056 00
160230 1408N 06825W 8432 01563 0120 +132 +077 188035 037 068 052 00
160300 1407N 06824W 8433 01567 0129 +126 +077 178039 040 061 043 00
160330 1406N 06823W 8414 01585 0130 +126 +076 180038 039 057 037 00
160400 1405N 06822W 8435 01566 0134 +125 +075 180039 040 052 026 00
160430 1404N 06821W 8426 01577 0136 +124 +074 181041 042 046 012 00
160500 1403N 06820W 8423 01583 0136 +127 +072 178041 042 044 008 00
$$
;

Image
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Re: ATL: ERNESTO - Tropical Storm

#2277 Postby cycloneye » Sat Aug 04, 2012 11:12 am

The center jumped to the NW in this microwave.

Image
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Re: ATL: ERNESTO - Tropical Storm

#2278 Postby Stormlover2012 » Sat Aug 04, 2012 11:14 am

wowww, could get interesting!!
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#2279 Postby brunota2003 » Sat Aug 04, 2012 11:15 am

Lots of high SFMR values (50s and 60s)...but all of them look rain inflated. I saw rain rates up in the 30s! The one that looks like it might not be inflated was a 46 knot one.

Correction:
Rain rates were in the 40s, with one of 55.


As far as RI goes:

The definition of RI is also an increase of wind speed of 30 knots or greater in a 24 hour period.
Last edited by brunota2003 on Sat Aug 04, 2012 11:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ATL: ERNESTO - Tropical Storm

#2280 Postby cheezyWXguy » Sat Aug 04, 2012 11:15 am

Shuriken wrote:
The plane is finding that Ernesto is barely a TS, despite its appearance on satellite. Surface obs (buoy to the north) and recon don't lie. Satellite can be VERY deceiving when trying to estimate surface conditions in the tropics. Clearly, Ernesto is struggling as the models had forecast. Low-level convergence appears to be lacking
Surface obs and recon are very sparse, while satellite "gets the whole picture" (so to speak) every :15 or :30. I'm seeing an inner core CDO-ish structure powerfully venting at 200mb now, and that's almost always a prelude to rapid intensification. If the surface lags, my guess would be that the storm is now well developed at the 700+ mb level, and it's just a matter of time (hours) before a probably sloppy multi-whirled, slightly-displaced-to-the-southwest LLC is sucked back under the hot tower and tightens.

you guys seem to throw the term "rapid intensification" around as if it were a synonym for a strengthening phase. RI is a big deal, and as of now this thing is far from it. If I remember right, the pressure drop rate required to be considered RI is 2.5mb an hour for 12 hours or more. thats a minimum of 30 mb. Ernesto will not be strengthening like that anytime soon.
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