Breaking News=Hundreds feared dead in Biloxi - Reuters

[alicia-w]

i think this evening would be a great time for many of us to be truly thankful for what we have and for those loved ones around us. Give them a hug, tell them you love them, call them, whatever. You never know which day will be your last.

[DCmetroraleigh]

Amen

[blueeyes_austin]

I shouldn't say this, but they should be shot!!!

Well, the second mod to make this statement. Guess it's now a free for all on comments on the board. Arrest these people but DON'T SHOOT THEM. We have something called due process were people are arrested and sent to jail not shot on site like this is the wild wild west. Yes looting is bad but YOU JUST SIMPLY CAN'T SHOOT PEOPLE ON SITE LIKE THAT. I mean come on we're supposed to be such a great loving Christian country Shooting on site would be going against God's wishes would it not!? I mean we don't do stuff like that here....

Ok time to take a break before I really let my opinions fly and get banned from here.

This is the point of martial law...to some level, due process rights are suspended.

What you don't want is a situation develop that is so lawless that it makes it impossible for relief workers to do their jobs.

[jlauderdal]

An Assosiated Press reporter on the beach in Biloxi says it "looks like a free-for-all," as looters come running out of souvenir shops, loaded down with merchandise.

He saw two men riding go-carts taken from an amusement park near the beach.

Two men were pushing a large plastic garbage can with wheels -- so full that it took both of them to drag it down the street.
------------

I guess some of them survived.....

And the National Guard is where? This would seem to be a perfect situation in which to deploy them. If the looters can move around so can the troops. In addition, it would seem it is time to send in the troops on helicoptors and bring some stability to the situation or at least run patrols from the helicoptors. Would have been nice to see a bit more security in South Florida last weekend when it was completely dark at night due to no power and I am sure those on the Gulf Coast feel the same. Good Luck to our neighbors on the Gulf Coast, what we went through in Florida last weekend was nothing but a blip on the radar compared to this.

[AlabamaDave]

I am beyond shocked. This can't be happening in 2005. I am so thankful my wife's family is all safe, even though her parents have lost everything and their home in Chalmette, LA.

Why did so many people stay?? I mean, Bay St. Louis? Gulfport?? These places were so obviously at Ground Zero according to the track and the surge was predicted (although it sounds like it was inconceivably high).

[wlfpack81]

Well, despite the martial law in place I still can't agree w/shooting people. I dislike criminals as much as the next person but don't agree w/shooting on site like this. Hopefully the military will be able to get in an arrest those who are looting. Though anyone w/half a brain should've seen this coming. You have a city with nearly a 3rd under the poverty line, what the heck did you expect to happen after the storm. I knew looting would be a HUGE problem.

I know that if an event like this were happening in another country and the gov there had a shoot to kill polciy on looters that people in this country would be going ballastic calling it ungodly and all sorts of things, especially if it were a Muslim country. So honestly I just feel a bit of hypocritism here and calling it like I see it. I won't post anymore on this topic b/c I myself hate getting into flame wars over politics/social issues/religion and obviously this board isn't the place for that.

[canegrl04]

So what good is declaring Martial Law if no one is around to enforce it.Judging from pictures on the news,there is NO security or wide spread relief efforts Yes,where are the National Guard in a time of domestic emergencyz? Pathetic

[beenthru6]

It is for this very reason (rampant looting) that in a situation as dire as a cat 5 hurricane bearing down on an area, that mandatory evacuation should mean just that...mandatory evacuation. There would have to be a really good plan in place of course to evacuate those without the means to evacuate, but after going through what the law abiding residents of these devastated areas have been through, if they do have anything left, it is just the last straw to be wiped clean by a bunch of lawless cretins.

[jlauderdal]

So what good is declaring Martial Law if no one is around to enforce it.Judging from pictures on the news,there is NO security or wide spread relief efforts Yes,where are the National Guard in a time of domestic emergencyz? Pathetic

No shooting required if you have a decent amount of security in place. I have always wondered why they leave the National Guard in the barracks. if you don;t use them now when do you use them. maybe some of our esteemed military people on the board can help us out with this one.

[tndefender]

I am beyond shocked. This can't be happening in 2005. I am so thankful my wife's family is all safe, even though her parents have lost everything and their home in Chalmette, LA.

Why did so many people stay?? I mean, Bay St. Louis? Gulfport?? These places were so obviously at Ground Zero according to the track and the surge was predicted (although it sounds like it was inconceivably high).

I honestly believe that the news media shares some responsibility for this. First, they did not take Katrina seriously until it was a Cat 4. Second, the vast majority of the coverage focused on what might happen to New Orleans. The possible effect on the MS/AL coasts was virtually ignored.

[NFLnut]

Heck, if it was me and I knew I was going to have to deal with the loss of a store anyway, I'd rather know that someone took it and put it to good use instead of seeing tons of food gone to total waste.

But it is the business owner's right to decide whether, when, and how to distribute that food. It is not right for people to just assume they can climb in the window and take whatever they want!

[Praxus]

I think its pathetic how many people here think an armful of goods is worth killing someone for. Disgusting really.

[Houstonia]

But it is the business owner's right to decide whether, when, and how to distribute that food. It is not right for people to just assume they can climb in the window and take whatever they want!

That's ridiculous. The business owner is probably no where around. The food will go bad, and allowing food to go bad is a SIN when it can be placed in the mouths of people who may need it.

And let's say the business owner IS around. Who is he going to sell the food to? Is it going to pass food inspections?

What about the clothing that will smell moldy? Would the merchants be able to resell it anyway? or the electronics that have been exposed to the elements?

Of course it's not right for the people to assume they can take whatever they want. But right now, stupid people looting damaged food, clothing and whatever else is a heck of a lot less important than getting people off the roofs, out of the trees and attics and wherever else they are.

If the government came in and said, "we need this food to feed the evacuees suffering in the Superdome, we can't find the owner, so we are claiming "eminent domain" (or whatever)", is that still theft?

But no - people out there say, "shoot them - they can't have my food/clothing/electronics that I worked so hard for". Well people - your merchandise isn't worth crap now anyway and the insurance will hopefully cover it wherever it winds up (whether underwater or in the hands of looters). So give me a break, act like a Christian and say "let others eat from my pantry" (or some such biblical-type notion).

[NFLnut]

And the National Guard is where? This would seem to be a perfect situation in which to deploy them. If the looters can move around so can the troops. In addition, it would seem it is time to send in the troops on helicoptors and bring some stability to the situation or at least run patrols from the helicoptors. Would have been nice to see a bit more security in South Florida last weekend when it was completely dark at night due to no power and I am sure those on the Gulf Coast feel the same. Good Luck to our neighbors on the Gulf Coast, what we went through in Florida last weekend was nothing but a blip on the radar compared to this.

Just how do you plan on getting the Guard in there? There is only one road that is passable into the city. It goes through Baton Rouge, and involves a 300 mile one way trip. Once you get into the city, you will be met by rising flood waters and floating debris. Most roads will be impassable, even to large military vehicles. There are no airports. Both are submerged. Helicopters ferry very few troops at a time, and where do you land large military helicopters? You don't just land one on top of a building or in an intersection!

There ARE troops coming in. Once they get there they will have to move largely in boats, but boats small enough to navigate through narrow streets that are clogged with debris. Quelling a looting crowd will have to be dealt with by a number of troops, not just one or two.

I'm so tired of people blaming the troops, the military, the President, .. who have ABSOLUTELY NO idea of what they are talking about!! The storm has barely been out of NOLA for 24 hours and thousands of square miles been affected!! In fact, NOLA may be less hard hit than other areas like Gulfport and Biloxi!

CALM DOWN!

[BocaGirl]

The scary thing is that we're gonna see this over and over again in any semi-good sized city along the Gulf Coast. My god, why didn't these people just leave.

Hindsight is always 20-20 and the moral high ground is a dangerous road to travel. It's so easy for us to think that we'd evacuate faced with the same circumstances, and knowing what we know now, we probably would. But listen to some of the stories of the surviving folks who stayed behind. Many of them had solid reasons for making the choices they did.

Did most make the right choice? Nope. It appears that many paid with their lives.

My point in all of this is that I beg everyone not to be so quick to judge why people did what they did, why they made the choices they made. What's done is done.

And try to understand that faced with the same choice, you yourself might have elected to stay and face the storm. Think about it honestly. Not from today's perspective....but from the day before Katrina struck.

BocaGirl
Barbara

[soonertwister]

Once looting begins, all societal rules start falling apart. People with guns and knives and clubs and hatchets may rape your wife or your child, or murder or badly injure you and your loved ones without asking first if you would be willing to accede to their demands.

The reason shooting is sometimes ordered for looters is because all order is falling apart, and the actions of some are seriously endangering the lives of many others. While I wouldn't consider shooting looters in most situations as a reasonable course of action, there comes a time and a place where it may be necessary to do so, in order to forcibly restore order by the threat of ultimate consequences.

This could be such a time and place, and I'll be honest, such times and places are so incredibly rare that they almost never happen.

It's hard fact that sometimes order must be sustained by whatever means are available. Those who have experenced or seen some of the footage of some of the worst riots we've seen in this country ought to understand the necessity for doing so.

[NFLnut]

But it is the business owner's right to decide whether, when, and how to distribute that food. It is not right for people to just assume they can climb in the window and take whatever they want!

That's ridiculous. The business owner is probably no where around. The food will go bad, and allowing food to go bad is a SIN when it can be placed in the mouths of people who may need it.

And let's say the business owner IS around. Who is he going to sell the food to? Is it going to pass food inspections?

What about the clothing that will smell moldy? Would the merchants be able to resell it anyway? or the electronics that have been exposed to the elements?

Of course it's not right for the people to assume they can take whatever they want. But right now, stupid people looting damaged food, clothing and whatever else is a heck of a lot less important than getting people off the roofs, out of the trees and attics and wherever else they are.

If the government came in and said, "we need this food to feed the evacuees suffering in the Superdome, we can't find the owner, so we are claiming "eminent domain" (or whatever)", is that still theft?

But no - people out there say, "shoot them - they can't have my food/clothing/electronics that I worked so hard for". Well people - your merchandise isn't worth crap now anyway and the insurance will hopefully cover it wherever it winds up (whether underwater or in the hands of looters). So give me a break, act like a Christian and say "let others eat from my pantry" (or some such biblical-type notion).

What's "ridiculous" is your post! The courts would also take issue with your reasoning. We are a nation of laws. A business owner OWNS everything in his business, whether it's in an intact structure that is locked, or an obliterated structure that is wide open for human vermin to decide that they can just help themselves to whatever they want!

I think that you will find that most business owners would be benevolent and give away some or all of their merchandise. However, it is THEIR decision to do so, and THEIR decision to decide when and how to do so!

Also, I am a Christian, and thus I don't believe that I can take advantage of another person's misfortune and help myself to whatever I want, regardless of the circumstances, or whether that person might be a business-owner or just poor old sap who lost his home! It's called "stealing," and it's wrong!

[NFLnut]

posts just seem to hang today, but they are actually sometimes going through..

I deleted this extra post ..

[NFLnut]

and this one too!

[mvtrucking]

I don't know about the looters. In many cases, looting is probably their only way of survival at this moment. Without food or clean water what is more important? Waiting to die, or getting the supplies. In the case of things other than food, well criminal punishment should be sought.

Food & clean water I can understand. Electronics, pharmacy raids, etc. No way. Out and out THEFT. Lock and load one thirty round magazine. Commence fire!