Blow the levee's..

[MomH]

I read the article about "The Big One" posted earlier and I heard Mayor Nagin say that the pumps could only lowere the level of water 1-2 inches a day if they are all working. So---

tell me why they are not blowing the levee's in certain areas to allow the water to drain out. I understand NO is below sea level but not all of the bowl is or some areas would not still be dry. Someone make me understand.

[jasons2k]

I read the article about "The Big One" posted earlier and I heard Mayor Nagin say that the pumps could only lowere the level of water 1-2 inches a day if they are all working. So---

tell me why they are not blowing the levee's in certain areas to allow the water to drain out. I understand NO is below sea level but not all of the bowl is or some areas would not still be dry. Someone make me understand.

Someone from the Corps. of Engineers mentioned 2 nights ago the ultimate solution will be to create intentional breaches (blow them up) to drain the water.

Problem is that you have to be sure where the water will go next. Then, once you have all these new breaches, how do you patch them back up?Plus, now you have the equivalent of a toxic waste dump, so it's not as simple as just blowing up the levees.

[schmita]

Why don't they get expert engineers from Holland?
The Netherlands has offered help already. That's what they are saying here.
irina

[stormie_skies]

Well, until they get the original breeches along the lake & canals patched up, it makes no sense to create intentional breeches....the water would just flow right back in, wouldn't it?

[jasons2k]

Well, until they get the original breeches along the lake & canals patched up, it makes no sense to create intentional breeches....the water would just flow right back in, wouldn't it?

Yes, there just doesn't seem to be a way out. I wonder if there is a bigger plan being hatched, like if they are going to simply evacuate the city, seal it off, and leave it. That might sound crazy, but it might just be the case. And of course the Mayor isn't saying anything to that effect - they would probably not tell him or the public until the deed is done.

[blueeyes_austin]

Why don't they get expert engineers from Holland?
The Netherlands has offered help already. That's what they are saying here.
irina

I think the US Army Corps of Engineers has...sufficient...experience in levee repair and maintenence.

[jasons2k]

Why don't they get expert engineers from Holland?
The Netherlands has offered help already. That's what they are saying here.
irina

I think the US Army Corps of Engineers has...sufficient...experience in levee repair and maintenence.

Yeah, it's working just dandy, isn't it.

[NFLnut]

It usually takes more than THREE DAYS to repair major structural damage to a levee which is essentially underwater!

What I am concerned about is with all of the talk about the contaminated standing water .. I know you have to let it out, but all of that crap (and essentially that's much of what it is) is going to go into the GOM?!

I'll never vacation on the Florida Gulf coast again!

[djtil]

pumps are 1-2 ft per day, not inches.

carry on.

[schmita]

Why don't they get expert engineers from Holland?
The Netherlands has offered help already. That's what they are saying here.
irina

I think the US Army Corps of Engineers has...sufficient...experience in levee repair and maintenence.

More experience than the Dutch? I don't think so.

[blueeyes_austin]

Why don't they get expert engineers from Holland?
The Netherlands has offered help already. That's what they are saying here.
irina

I think the US Army Corps of Engineers has...sufficient...experience in levee repair and maintenence.

More experience than the Dutch? I don't think so.

The entire Mississippi is essentially one big levee system.

[blueeyes_austin]

It usually takes more than THREE DAYS to repair major structural damage to a levee which is essentially underwater!

What I am concerned about is with all of the talk about the contaminated standing water .. I know you have to let it out, but all of that crap (and essentially that's much of what it is) is going to go into the GOM?!

I'll never vacation on the Florida Gulf coast again!

"Crap" is not the problem...what do you think the fishes do! Human waste will degrade naturally.

Did you know that the entire NOLA sewage system was flushed into the Gulf prior to the hurricane landing.

[Cookiely]

Well, until they get the original breeches along the lake & canals patched up, it makes no sense to create intentional breeches....the water would just flow right back in, wouldn't it?

Yes, there just doesn't seem to be a way out. I wonder if there is a bigger plan being hatched, like if they are going to simply evacuate the city, seal it off, and leave it. That might sound crazy, but it might just be the case. And of course the Mayor isn't saying anything to that effect - they would probably not tell him or the public until the deed is done.

I think your right. Gradually over time they will spoon feed the bad news concerning old New Orleans. Here's to the New "New Orleans", may you be more beautiful and have a long rein.

[MomH]

First--Mayor Nagin may have meant feet but he said inches.

Second -- I had not thought about the contamination to the gulf. If it were only sewage I might argue the point but toxic waste is another situation. That could conceivably cause irrevocable damage to the gulf eco system and the marches that currently help sustain it. Thank you for pointing that out.

Third -- I heard an EPA person say last night that, before anyone was allowed to return to NO permanently, they would have to do extensive testing to see if the toxic waste filled water has permanently damaged the area.

Thank you all for your imput.
Pray folks, pray hard!
MomH

[wwicko]

Why don't they get expert engineers from Holland?
The Netherlands has offered help already. That's what they are saying here.
irina

I think the US Army Corps of Engineers has...sufficient...experience in levee repair and maintenence.

Complain that no foreigners help. Get defensive when they offer help.

[wwicko]

Why don't they get expert engineers from Holland?
The Netherlands has offered help already. That's what they are saying here.
irina

I think the US Army Corps of Engineers has...sufficient...experience in levee repair and maintenence.

More experience than the Dutch? I don't think so.

The entire Mississippi is essentially one big levee system.

Remember the Mississippi River flood of 1993. I don't remember a single attempt to stop the breeches during the flood that was successful. I remember attempts that failed, and then all efforts to repair breeches ceased. I don't remember any levee repairs occurring until the flood had subsided.

The Atlantic Ocean, off the coast of the Netherlands does not subside and the Dutch manage to repair and maintain their dikes. Sometimes it becomes painfully obvious to me why foreigners tend to dislike Americans. The US should do all it can to get Dutch experts on board as quickly as possible.

[blueeyes_austin]

Well, the most recent news conference just concluded indicated that the breech in the 17th street levee has been repaired and they are now assessing the strength of the system to ensure that they won't have additional collapses as the water is withdrawn.

[MomH]

Hold on -- something dawned on me late this afternoobn. Doesn't Lake Pon. drain into the wetlands on its East side? If they are pumping the toxic soup back into the lake what difference does it make whether they blow a levee or not. The marshes and gulf are still going to be affected and it will probably kill Lake Pon. Pumping into the Mississippi, same thing.
Marshes, ditto.

Looks like this is a no win situation in any case. At least blowing a levee might save some of the housing and other buildings.

[jasons2k]

Hold on -- something dawned on me late this afternoobn. Doesn't Lake Pon. drain into the wetlands on its East side? If they are pumping the toxic soup back into the lake what difference does it make whether they blow a levee or not. The marshes and gulf are still going to be affected and it will probably kill Lake Pon. Pumping into the Mississippi, same thing.
Marshes, ditto.

Looks like this is a no win situation in any case. At least blowing a levee might save some of the housing and other buildings.

Beyond saving what has already flooded at this point. When they said evacuate the entire city they meant it. It will be sealed off. The EPA will probably do all kinds of testing, only to conclude the area is no nonger habitable unless there is a massive cleanup. This process alone will take months. Then the big question will be "what happens next". Nobody really knows at this point.

[MomH]

True--but according to the article I was talking about blowoing a 1/2 mile section would empty NO in 24 hours or less. That would at least allow some of those still in attics to get down and out. Those still alive anyway.