YOU ARE BEING LIED TO

[artist]

it was not the President that cut the funding - it was our state representatives.

[RichG]

The project you are talking about would take about a decade. So we would have been 9 years short. And by the way NO would still be below sea level.

[DoctorHurricane2003]

I know the governor is doing all she can to clear up the situation. She was elected 2 years ago and in that time I have noticed that the metro New Orleans area has been more prepared (i.e. completing more levees, introducing contraflow, etc.) We have to realize that New Orleans can't get Hurricane-Proof in 2 years...the real blame if there is any is on all local and state officials prior to the current one who haven't seemed to want to do anything whatsoever but ignore the situation. The current mayor is handling it...okay. You have to realize though that the entire city that he is in control of is pretty much non existant now so you can imagine how much shock he is in and what that causes in terms of actions.

[artist]

unfortuantely though when you are in a position of leadership you can't allow your emotions to get involved - you must act for the best of your people. I am sure they did walk into a situation that was not good - planning not being done, etc. possibly, but it was their responsibility to try to correct that. i just wish they had delcared the evacuation on SAturday - so many more may have gotten out.

[SouthFloridawx]

I know the governor is doing all she can to clear up the situation. She was elected 2 years ago and in that time I have noticed that the metro New Orleans area has been more prepared (i.e. completing more levees, introducing contraflow, etc.) We have to realize that New Orleans can't get Hurricane-Proof in 2 years...the real blame if there is any is on all local and state officials prior to the current one who haven't seemed to want to do anything whatsoever but ignore the situation. The current mayor is handling it...okay. You have to realize though that the entire city that he is in control of is pretty much non existant now so you can imagine how much shock he is in and what that causes in terms of actions.

We are not blaming on the current govenor only.... this should have been fixed years ago and I know i know the is hindsight but, america needs to be more prepared and this task should be given to the homeland security to make sure this is covered or whoever does it since they wanted to take over.

[artist]

each city and state has a homeland security head .

[RichG]

DoctorHurricane2003


I have to disagree. Everbody and I mean everybody who knows anything about hurricanes knew a storm hitting NO was the big one. Contraflow is good but come on that is a no brainer. And yes whomever the previous state and local leaders were they should have made planning training priority one.

[DoctorHurricane2003]

I don't ever think I said it wouldn't be the big one...perhaps you should reread my post. But still much more needed to be done to prepare New Orleans than can be done in 2 years...not to mention having to plan it out. And yes it is a no-brainer, but she still is the only one who put it into practice.

[RichG]

Folks, there is only one government entity that can prevent what has happened here and you cant just wish it up a level. State and local government is responsible for law enforcement and emergeny managagment. That is it. No one else. Unless you want to change the constitutiuon that is it. Federal authorties are backup only. However if the governor would like to throw in the towel then the feds can step in.

[jasons2k]

In principle, the Feds are in charge of coordinating the relief effort.

I've been looking around to try to find something that explains the idea of comprehensive emergency management and who is coordinating what. I know I have a flowchart somewhere.

Here's what I could find in FEMA's introductory Emergency Manager course as currently available on the web:

"If the President declares an emergency or a major disaster, FEMA will name a federal coordinating officer (FCO) to coordinate federal assistance, and the governor will appoint a state coordinating officer (SCO). The SCO is your primary liaison with the FCO.

Once on the scene, the FCO is responsible for an initial appraisal of needed assistance. The FCO is also responsible for coordinating all the federal agencies and programs involved in assistance. In most cases, volunteer groups, such as the American Red Cross, the Salvation Army, and the Mennonite Disaster Service, will coordinate their private relief efforts with FEMA as well.

The officials will set up a disaster field office (DFO), usually staffed with federal, state, and local officials as well as representatives from the private relief organizations. A DFO provides one location from which various agencies coordinate assistance efforts."

I'm almost certain that the flowchart I have is from an older version of this course that I have somewhere on my shelves (where, is the big question). If I can find it, I'll run it through my scanner and post it to this thread.

A general summary of all of this is that there is a well-thought out management system theoretically in place to, in principle, coordinate every bit of this: the incident command system and integrated emergency management. The system is tested, and I'm happy to trust my life and safety to the system. When it functions it functions with military precision (not surprisingly since it's backbone, in major disasters, is often formed of military (regular and national guard) and paramilitary (police) forces.

There's only one problem: it's clearly not functioning here, possibly because of poor planning, possibly because of the communications breakdown, possibly because of politics, possibly because of insufficient resources, probably because of a mix of all of the above and more.

Thanlk you! A factual representation of my point, I'll leave it at that, Bravo.

[artist]

the army corps of engineers repeatedly cited the Iraq war and tax cuts as the reason their budgets was slashed considerably

well - I have not heard that other than thru media saying such. and even so - this should have been started many years before the Iraq war. Every year they face the possibility of facing a catastrophic event and each and every year they are reminded by reports issued by universities, engineers, etc. Yet nothing has ever been done nor have they made certain they had a comprehensive plan to get people out and taken care of IF it were to happen.

[aumoore]

Ok time out boys and girls

What happened to the America where people took responsibility for their actions? We all are quick to say "It's not my fault it is his or hers or the Governments fault” If we all look into the mirror we can all find faults with ourselves. No one wants to pay taxes but we all want nice roads to drive on, new schools for our children, levies for our cities, Armies to protect us, Police to guard us etc. If we all want a better New Orleans we all have to pay for it but wait until we try to raise taxes to pay for it. We will vote in the politician that says no new taxes and we get a half a$$ levee system.

My mother always said if you don’t have anything good to say do not say anything.

Lets do what it takes to get those people help and you can start by donating money to help pay for food and shelter.

[Spinner]

What happened to the America where people took responsibility for their actions? We all are quick to say "It's not my fault it is his or hers or the Governments fault” If we all look into the mirror we can all find faults with ourselves. No one wants to pay taxes but we all want nice roads to drive on, new schools for our children, levies for our cities, Armies to protect us, Police to guard us etc. If we all want a better New Orleans we all have to pay for it but wait until we try to raise taxes to pay for it. We will vote in the politician that says no new taxes and we get a half a$$ levee system.

Problem is..we are taxed beyond belief, we are living week to week on checks working 2 jobs and now we have to pay to restore a town which is under feet of water. If we want a better NOLA, we build them the hell out of there to areas which are safe. You know why? My grandmother is probably dead from this $%^&%* thing and she would rather our family live in safety than live in danger. FAMILY. That is what really drives this county..heros, workers..life.

There are no faults "within ourselves". It is easy to type that and work the "We act Holier than Thou" and then say we vote in cost-cutting officials because we want riches and we want tax breaks. It's also easy to tell you that you have no idea how a lot of people are literally dying to save other. But that doesnt count since it doesnt fit into your economic model of whatever.

You want to know about the real world..ask the cops that are working 20 hour shifts in NOLA and then come to me about how taxes suck and what not. It's the real world..

Gas is high. We deal.
Formula is beginning to run out. We deal.
We are on the internet bitching while people die. They DONT DEAL.

[TreasureIslandFLGal]

This all sickens me. There must be an agenda to allow these people, who may be generally supported by government checks, so maybe they are considered expendable, to just die. Why isn't water being airlifted to these hundreds of stranded people on bridges or at the domes? They show airlifts of bags of stone to try and plug the levies, and so why can't they just keep filling a few of those with drinking water to airlift where they are needed. This is pathetic that the priority at this time is to fix a levie system that you know won't be repaired and the city drained for weeks if not months, yet a human can't live without water for more than a few days! I swear that the president, the american oil barons, and the state governments are generally allowing the "dregs of society" to just die off. They are afraid of the cost of having to shelter them and feed them in the long term. They probably figure they will ultimately save on welfare checks if they are allowed to die. It is sickening to think that we aren't mobilizing huge numbers of forces to help evacuate people. Where are the flat barges that go up and down the Mississippi river everyday? Why aren't people being moved up to St. Louis on these? -or wherever? Why are the ships still in Tampa Bay with all the navy sitting around? Couldn't they go to start a rescue mission rather than wait for carriers to come from Virginia?
Wait til the infections set in. Remember Floyd? That land is still unusable that flooded. Young people lost arms and legs to infection to the point that visiting east Carolina reminds you of post-civil war pictures with so many canes and missing limbs. Wait til they have to start searching attics when the floods finally recede. Mark my words, we will see numbers like 50,000 killed when all is said and done, due to neglect, dysentary(spelling?), TB, infection, etc.
Last laugh will be on the looters that are stealing more than necessities. They won't want to leave their stash, but they will develop infections and die. The longer they wait and wade through the polluted water before seeking help, they more likely they will die. Nature will avenge their behavior.

[repeatoffender]

I see absolutely nothing wrong with what I said in the 2nd reply to this thread. The governmetn could have atleast been moving to stockpile supplies and coordinate staging areas without any constitutional problems or having a declaration of martial law.

Basicaly the government did jack and is still doing very little. the scene is NO is complete chaos. This was a widely predicted event with ample warning and was NUMBER 3 crisis posibility in the US. And it is a cluster **** beyond belief.

I have every right to be ashamed. We can invade 2 nations in the past few years and spend hundreds of billions on it but we can't save some poor people from starving to death or dying of thirst. Pathetic.

And I used to support this administration..

[inotherwords]

no - it was a failure of the state of Louisiana as well as New Orleans NOT truly planning for the worst case scenario they have been warned about for years. Others are having to try to pick up the pieces for them now.

Except the responsibility for reengineering the levees and a plan for a major disaster lay not with the state, but with the US Army Corps of Engineers, and the federal government has cut funding for the past 3 years for this. For example, in FY 2006 the budget line item for this would have been $71 million and it was cut in June. It was in the budget, and the state and local governments were pleading the feds for the money to do this, they have for years.

After 9/11, all bets were off and the money was diverted elsewhere. One big guess where most of it went/is going. How much money, again, per day is that war costing us? It's staggering.

I'm not sure why FEMA was asleep at the wheel. It's been one of their three nightmare disaster scenarios forever.

From coordinating big projects for companies, I understand logistics are always very complex and I really hesitate to point fingers because without being in others' shoes, it's really hard to know what they're going through.

I watched the news feeds from Ch. 4 since Friday and people were urged to leave the city very early. On Friday it was a suggestion, Saturday people were strongly recommending it, and by Sunday they were pleading with people to go. I saw the mayor on the news show, he was there live in the studio. And while he could not legally say the words himself, there were others there who were. Roads out of the city were clear for the most part. We have to analyze why people don't leave and put systems into place to get them out. We'll still have some people who stay, but if we even could have gotten 25% more people to go, it would have helped tremendously. Around here, many people don't evacuate to shelters because they can't take their pets. There are now a few pet-friendly shelters because local government is recognizing this is a barrier to evacuation. That's good, but we need to do more in all vulnerable areas.

We really have to face it: we have become a soft country and we are not adequately prepared for wartime conditions, which is essentially what these are at this scale. The vast majority of our most important on-the-ground troops have been drained to go to Iraq, and we've heard all the stories about how there aren't even enough troops there, and that those there are exhausted. How on earth do we expect to have enough, then, to handle a crisis like this? There is really not much of a "reserve" anymore.

[r_u_stuck2]

January 2001: Bush appoints Joe Allbaugh, a crony from Texas, as head of FEMA. Allbaugh has no previous experience in disaster management.


April 2001: Budget Director Mitch Daniels announces the Bush administration's goal of privatizing much of FEMA's work. In May, Allbaugh confirms that FEMA will be downsized: "Many are concerned that federal disaster assistance may have evolved into both an oversized entitlement program...." he said. "Expectations of when the federal government should be involved and the degree of involvement may have ballooned beyond what is an appropriate level."


2001: FEMA designates a major hurricane hitting New Orleans as one of the three "likeliest, most catastrophic disasters facing this country."


December 2002: After less than two years at FEMA, Allbaugh announces he is leaving to start up a consulting firm that advises companies seeking to do business in Iraq. He is succeeded by his deputy, Michael Brown, who, like Allbaugh, has no previous experience in disaster management.


March 2003: FEMA is downgraded from a cabinet level position and folded into the Department of Homeland Security. Its mission is refocused on fighting acts of terrorism.


2003: Under its new organization chart within DHS, FEMA's preparation and planning functions are reassigned to a new Office of Preparedness and Response. FEMA will henceforth focus only on response and recovery.


Summer 2004: FEMA denies Louisiana's pre-disaster mitigation funding requests. Says Jefferson Parish flood zone manager Tom Rodrigue: "You would think we would get maximum consideration....This is what the grant program called for. We were more than qualified for it."


June 2004: The Army Corps of Engineers budget for levee construction in New Orleans is slashed. Jefferson Parish emergency management chiefs Walter Maestri comments: "It appears that the money has been moved in the president's budget to handle homeland security and the war in Iraq, and I suppose that's the price we pay."


June 2005: Funding for the New Orleans district of the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers is cut by a record $71.2 million. One of the hardest-hit areas is the Southeast Louisiana Urban Flood Control Project, which was created after the May 1995 flood to improve drainage in Jefferson, Orleans and St. Tammany parishes.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archiv ... 007023.php

[CocoCreek]

We hear all the time from local, state and federal leaders about the great plans we have in place to respond to disasters and terrorist attacks, in fact, not more than 2 years ago the City of New Orleans was a case study for this exact scenario.

If we can't implement a plan that already exists in an area in which it was based on/designed for, for an event in which we had 3-4 days notice, then I'm afraid that there is little hope in the event of a surprise event in an area without much advance planning. Don't buy your elected leaders talk about being prepared for such things. When it happens, the truth of the matter is you are on your own.

This whole situation is an embarassment and a disgrace to each and every American. The results thus far accurately reflect the competency of our local leaders on every level including the President. In under eight years he's managed to turn this country into something none of us recognizes anymore.

[AlabamaDave]

Inexcusable as this shouldn't come as a suprise. Studies have been done on this scenario for years.

No kidding. I recall reading newspaper articles about this very thing back in the 1980's when I lived in N.O. I also recall a National Geographic article about hurricanes from the 70's or 80's that described how Camille would have killed hundreds of thousands in N.O. if she had hit a little more West. They have known for decades that this could and WOULD happen one of these days.

[Air Force Met]

June 2005: Funding for the New Orleans district of the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers is cut by a record $71.2 million. One of the hardest-hit areas is the Southeast Louisiana Urban Flood Control Project, which was created after the May 1995 flood to improve drainage in Jefferson, Orleans and St. Tammany parishes.

I won't address the rest of your little agenda...but I will address this. The area they were looking to fix was not the area that failed. Had they done exactly as they wanted to with the money they wanted to have...it still would have happened because the area that failed was not scheduled or budgeted to be fixed.

Face the facts...if the mayor of NOLA had done his job...and had the governor had done her's...then this disaster would be a shadow of itself. Put blame where blame is due. Had the mayor (assuming he is of your political party...which is irrelevant) ordered the immediate evacuation when he was pleaded with by the NHC...OR if those who elected him and are now stuck would have done all they could to get out...then they would not find themselves in this mess. If you have ANY facts to discredit the information in this paragraph...about proper state and local evacuation (which is a state and local function) or the people who willingly stayed...then bring it on. Bottom line is the reason we are at this state is because people did not leave...they weren't told to leave in time...and when they finally were...many of them did so willingly...not because they couldn't...but because they didn't want to.