Mr. President

[NC George]

I would not have been on Vacation at my RANCH!!!!

1) He was actually closer to the scene when he was at the ranch.

2) Congress was out of session until yesterday, why did Bush need to be in Washington?

3) The President (no matter who he is) is never on vacation. He may not be in the White House, but he is on the job 24/7.

[Windtalker1]

Tell this to the families that have lost loved ones because they died fro dehydration.

[NFLnut]

The title of this thread should have been:

MADAM GOVERNOR

(1) Let's see .. our country is based on STATE'S rights. The President cannot send in military troops unless the Governor requests them, and even then there are laws which restrict what can be done. When her lip stopped quivering in front of the camera YESTERDAY, she FINALLY made that request!

(2) When the fine Mayor of NOLA finally made up his mind to recommend a mandatory evacuation, it was Sunday afternoon! Katrina came ashore early Monday morning.

(3) Of course we'll do what we can to help the people stuck in NO, but whatever happened to the concept of those living in coastal regions with impending Hurricanes making sure that they have supplies to sustain them for 5-7 days? I realize that with the flooding that occurred after Katrina in NO, those supplies would have been wiped out, but just last year with Ivan on this very board, the discussion was that if it hit NOLA, the city would be flooded beyond recognition and loss of life would be phenomenal! Were these people not aware that there was a significant danger of massive flooding in a town built below sea level, surrounded by water?

It's real hard to blame the President!! (or maybe it's just too easy!)

[dwg71]

I would not have been on Vacation at my RANCH!!!!

1) He was actually closer to the scene when he was at the ranch.

2) Congress was out of session until yesterday, why did Bush need to be in Washington?

3) The President (no matter who he is) is never on vacation. He may not be in the White House, but he is on the job 24/7.

As much as I would like to respond, lets try to leave all political debates on the "Political Debate Board". You can find it by going to the "Forum Index" and scrolling down, I think it right after the "Religous Debate Forum".

[Derek Ortt]

he could have federalized the National Guard. Eisenhower did that for civil rights, as well as sending in the 82nd. Bush could have done the same during a true emergency situation

[birdwomn]

How about taking the politics out, and get people invovled who might be as close as anyone to how to deal with this? Jeb Bush and Rudy Guliani should be brought in as consultants (for free, of course) as they have both worked first hand in solving major disasters recently. Now don't get me wrong here...this does not have to do with political party...it has to do with people who have been forced to deal with major disasters....all less intense than this one, IMO, but still huge disasters.

[Windtalker1]

he could have federalized the National Guard. Eisenhower did that for civil rights, as well as sending in the 82nd. Bush could have done the same during a true emergency situation

AMEN TO THAT BROTHER!!!!!

[NFLnut]

How about taking the politics out

I completely agree. I only responded because of the title of this thread and the fact that it seems that some people want to blame EVERYTHING on the President! I'm waiting for the start of people saying the President created Katrina in a "risky scheme." I'm sure Ted Kennedy will start using the term "quagmire" in regards to NOLA when the Senate reconvenes.

I find it non-constructive, and it's really not helping the people of AL, MS, and LA to keep trying to find blame, or to fault the President because he wasn't sitting at his desk in the White House. He can fully function as the President, efficiently, from anywhere in the world!

This was a NATURAL disaster that exceeded anyone's expectations. It would be a whole lot better to spend time sending money to the Salvation Army or the Red Cross than to start threads titled "Mr President!"

With that, I'm done on this thread.

[Air Force Met]

Please, please, please do not tell me that the Federal Government couldn't do anything until asked. My GOD...If I were President and saw that a CAT 4/5 storm was going to hit the most valnerable area of my country, you can bet your arse that I would of made dame sure that everything was in place, trucks fueled and filled with supplies and ready to go in as soon as the storm was over. I would not have been on Vacation at my RANCH!!!! I would have been at the White House in touch with every organization and making sure that everything was ready to go while watch the Storms impact. Better to be ready than not be ready as was the case. I am upset to be calling myself an American after watching what these people are going through when we are suspose to be the richest nation on earth. School bus drivers???? That's the stupidest thing I heard of.....there is so much more that could have been done. I said my peace, I have a right to my opinion....That is all.

1) The president could be on vacation in Alaska and he still has the same capability to communicate than he does in DC. That is a fact. Bottom line is the president is NEVER on vacation. Even when Clinton was on vacation in the virgin islands...he was not on vacation as we know it...the POTUS is NEVER on vacation. To say so is extremely ignorant. Were you complaining when Clinton bombed Afganistan while vacationing in Massachusetts?

2) The white house WAS in touch with every organization...hence the declaration of emergency BEFORE the event happened...which is extremely rare...it usually ALWAYS happens after. I know this because I work behind the scenes. Got some information that contradicts mine? Post it.

3) The Federal Gov't did a lot before it was asked...but there are legalities that rest on the state and local level. We were working the storm last week.

4) School bus drivers is stupid? When the Mayor FINALLY got around to ordering a mandatory evacuation the day AFTER he was begged by Mayfield of the NHC...they could have used buses (and that WAS the plan...BTW...occording to the exercise last year...) to pick up as many people as possible. Where do they go? Who cares...figure it out later...it's better than being stuck on your roof for 5 days.

5) Yes...everyone is entitled to their opinions. But that does not gaurantee that your opinion is right...as is the case here. Not every opinion can be right. You can chose to believe it or not...I really don't care. I am just trying to educate people on the how all this works...seeing how I do this for a living and have been doing it for 18 years. If anyone has a beef about what I am saying...and in your case...you say you would have had a plan...etc...then I say to you: What is YOUR experience of working disaster relief at the state, local, and federal level? Kinda easy to make a plan when you've never really been in charge of it...isn't it. Everyone thinks they can do better than Tom Brady....if someone would just trust THEM with the ball.

You see...in order for your "opinion" to amount to anything...it has to be based on facts and not emotions. Let's hear the facts to substantiate your opinion...and start with your experience of working with FEMA coordination b/w state, local,and federal disaster resonse. If you want to address your experience with MSCA...that would be a welcome discussion as well.

[Ivanhater]

Please, please, please do not tell me that the Federal Government couldn't do anything until asked. My GOD...If I were President and saw that a CAT 4/5 storm was going to hit the most valnerable area of my country, you can bet your arse that I would of made dame sure that everything was in place, trucks fueled and filled with supplies and ready to go in as soon as the storm was over. I would not have been on Vacation at my RANCH!!!! I would have been at the White House in touch with every organization and making sure that everything was ready to go while watch the Storms impact. Better to be ready than not be ready as was the case. I am upset to be calling myself an American after watching what these people are going through when we are suspose to be the richest nation on earth. School bus drivers???? That's the stupidest thing I heard of.....there is so much more that could have been done. I said my peace, I have a right to my opinion....That is all.

1) The president could be on vacation in Alaska and he still has the same capability to communicate than he does in DC. That is a fact. Bottom line is the president is NEVER on vacation. Even when Clinton was on vacation in the virgin islands...he was not on vacation as we know it...the POTUS is NEVER on vacation. To say so is extremely ignorant. Were you complaining when Clinton bombed Afganistan while vacationing in Massachusetts?

2) The white house WAS in touch with every organization...hence the declaration of emergency BEFORE the event happened...which is extremely rare...it usually ALWAYS happens after. I know this because I work behind the scenes. Got some information that contradicts mine? Post it.

3) The Federal Gov't did a lot before it was asked...but there are legalities that rest on the state and local level. We were working the storm last week.

4) School bus drivers is stupid? When the Mayor FINALLY got around to ordering a mandatory evacuation the day AFTER he was begged by Mayfield of the NHC...they could have used buses (and that WAS the plan...BTW...occording to the exercise last year...) to pick up as many people as possible. Where do they go? Who cares...figure it out later...it's better than being stuck on your roof for 5 days.

5) Yes...everyone is entitled to their opinions. But that does not gaurantee that your opinion is right...as is the case here. Not every opinion can be right. You can chose to believe it or not...I really don't care. I am just trying to educate people on the how all this works...seeing how I do this for a living and have been doing it for 18 years. If anyone has a beef about what I am saying...and in your case...you say you would have had a plan...etc...then I say to you: What is YOUR experience of working disaster relief at the state, local, and federal level? Kinda easy to make a plan when you've never really been in charge of it...isn't it. Everyone thinks they can do better than Tom Brady....if someone would just trust THEM with the ball.

You see...in order for your "opinion" to amount to anything...it has to be based on facts and not emotions. Let's hear the facts to substantiate your opinion...and start with your experience of working with FEMA coordination b/w state, local,and federal disaster resonse. If you want to address your experience with MSCA...that would be a welcome discussion as well.

AMEN, i wanted to say this, but im gonna stay out of the politics, it is unimaginable that people want to play monday morning quaterback and play politics, LETS FOCUS ON SAVING PEOPLE instead of trying to blame everyone for what was out of our hands, bush gets blamed for a lot of things, its not like he or anyone else is sitting on their butt not doing anything, THEY ARE TRYING, another tragedy occured with the floods, lets stop the blame game, and do what needs to be done

[Air Force Met]

he could have federalized the National Guard. Eisenhower did that for civil rights, as well as sending in the 82nd. Bush could have done the same during a true emergency situation

Sorry Derek...you know a lot about weather...but you really don't know what you are talking about here. Are you aware of the differences? This is apples and oranges. Faubus was acting in direct opposition to Federal Law and they were there to enforce a Federal law. This is totally different. The government has the right to enforce federal law...and this disaster is outside that pervue.

Derek...please explain (since you seem to know) the process of federalizing National Guard troops. Explain the means...the flows...the fund cites...the CED orders...the mod orders...and the process of coordination with the states...since that is your solution and it could (in your opinion) already happened...explain it to everyone else please. Explain to everyone here who agrees with you how it could have happened the day after. Explain it to me...because I would certainly like to know.

It's so easy for all you guys...isn't it. There are procedures set up for MSCA...and the Arkansas situation was not MSCA. Period. It's so easy just to federalize troops. It can be done just like that. Right? Explain how.

Ok...you know what...I give up. Never mind that this is what I do...work with state gov'ts and FEMA...to coordinate the distaster relief from the federal gov't and other states under the direciton of a 3 star general (you know...like the one in charge now). You guys just go on thinking you know what you are talking about because it just seems like it ought to work that way. I could throw literally a ton of paperwork at you to show you how the states should respond...and what they were to do...but you wouldn't listen to that advice either...even though it was signed by the LA governor.

Never mind. I give up. Live in your own little worlds.

[Ivanhater]

dont give up, im right there with ya

[Air Force Met]

dont give up, im right there with ya

No...I give up. All these people think they know how it works...and I am sitting here trying to tell them how it works because it's what I do for a living, except I work for 5th Army and not 1st Army. I have sat down with FEMA...CIA and FBI (For WMD side of the house)...and with all the branches of government when we exercise to see what they need...especially the EOC side of 5th Army...when something like this happens.

We table top exercise...we exercise by deploying teams TO the OEM's of the states (depending on the scenario we are exercising)....I HAVE BEEN ON RTF DISASTER TEAMS and worked along side the local governments as we responded federally to their needs. I know what it takes...I know how it works...it's what I do for a living.

But yet...people still think they know how it should have worked...so I say "FINE" believe what you will. Maybe next time we respond or exercise I can get you a security pass and bring you behind the scenes so you can see it for yourself...then you all could come back on here a little more enlightened.

Do I sound frustrated? Yes...I am. We are calling up our entire unit. I am sitting here ready to be gone...wanted to be gone two days ago...but I am not. If 5th Army was in the lead...I would be gone...but since it's 1st Army...I have to wait a little while. Looks like tomorrow will be the day.

[Ivanhater]

dont give up, im right there with ya

No...I give up. All these people think they know how it works...and I am sitting here trying to tell them how it works because it's what I do for a living, except I work for 5th Army and not 1st Army. I have sat down with FEMA...CIA and FBI (For WMD side of the house)...and with all the branches of government when we exercise to see what they need...especially the EOC side of 5th Army...when something like this happens.

We table top exercise...we exercise by deploying teams TO the OEM's of the states (depending on the scenario we are exercising)....I HAVE BEEN ON RTF DISASTER TEAMS and worked along side the local governments as we responded federally to their needs. I know what it takes...I know how it works...it's what I do for a living.

But yet...people still think they know how it should have worked...so I say "FINE" believe what you will. Maybe next time we respond or exercise I can get you a security pass and bring you behind the scenes so you can see it for yourself...then you all could come back on here a little more enlightened.

Do I sound frustrated? Yes...I am. We are calling up our entire unit. I am sitting here ready to be gone...wanted to be gone two days ago...but I am not. If 5th Army was in the lead...I would be gone...but since it's 1st Army...I have to wait a little while. Looks like tomorrow will be the day.

well i for one thank you for all the work you have done, and will do in the future....this country is the best on earth because of folks like you

[Derek Ortt]

my point was based upon a statue that my grandfather, who is a retired CW3 told me last night.

In extreme circumstances, the president can declare martial law. If he is wrong, then I appologize for posting misinfo

I did not attack you, AFM, so I am not sure why you are so hostile. I am posting what a Vietnam vet who served for 25 years has told me

[FloridaHawk82]

dont give up, im right there with ya

Same here AFM, you have been a VITAL source of FACT-BASED information.

And Derek, you are certainly one of the most level-headed and informative people I've seen here in my very limited stay... I think AFM's head just hurts from banging it against the proverbial wall.

[Air Force Met]

my point was based upon a statue that my grandfather, who is a retired CW3 told me last night.

In extreme circumstances, the president can declare martial law. If he is wrong, then I appologize for posting misinfo

I did not attack you, AFM, so I am not sure why you are so hostile. I am posting what a Vietnam vet who served for 25 years has told me

Sorry...but I am very frustrated about what people think they know but don't. IN the case of the CW3...unless he has worked in the framework of FEMA and MSCA...he still doesn't know what is right or not. Sorry...but that is the truth. I have been educating full bird colonels on this lately because they don't work in that area and really don't know. They don't have an informed opinion. The people I have been explaining this too are also vets of 25 years or more and full bird colonels and lt col's. Just because you've been in a while doesn't mean you know how everything works...and that is what we do at 5th Army.

As far as the president declaring martial law...that's a stretch. First...it is usually a congressional function...not a function of the POTUS for very good reason. Martial law PERIOD is highly unlikely given the supreme court has ruled that as long as the court system in the country is functional...you cannot suspend the Writ of Habeas Corpus...which is what martial law does.

So...I ask...do we really want to live in a country where any POTUS can declare martial law? Think of the legal ramifications if that were to happenn with this crisis.

I apologize for getty testy...but it is very frustrating for me to see everyone who thinks this or that but doesn't know how it works. Federalizing the guard is a time consuming process. Believe it or not...it is happening...but it takes a LOT of time. Right now...what IS happening is a STATE (not federal) mobilization by the governors of TX, MS, LA, AL, FL, etc. That places the National Guard under the direction of the governor...who is then lending them to LA.

[Air Force Met]

dont give up, im right there with ya

Same here AFM, you have been a VITAL source of FACT-BASED information.

And Derek, you are certainly one of the most level-headed and informative people I've seen here in my very limited stay... I think AFM's head just hurts from banging it against the proverbial wall.

That's exactly the problem...I'm frustrated. It's what I do for a living. It's like I'm Tom Brady and people want to know why I ran a screen play instead of going for the deep pass.

[Windtalker1]

Please, please, please do not tell me that the Federal Government couldn't do anything until asked. My GOD...If I were President and saw that a CAT 4/5 storm was going to hit the most valnerable area of my country, you can bet your arse that I would of made dame sure that everything was in place, trucks fueled and filled with supplies and ready to go in as soon as the storm was over. I would not have been on Vacation at my RANCH!!!! I would have been at the White House in touch with every organization and making sure that everything was ready to go while watch the Storms impact. Better to be ready than not be ready as was the case. I am upset to be calling myself an American after watching what these people are going through when we are suspose to be the richest nation on earth. School bus drivers???? That's the stupidest thing I heard of.....there is so much more that could have been done. I said my peace, I have a right to my opinion....That is all.

1) The president could be on vacation in Alaska and he still has the same capability to communicate than he does in DC. That is a fact. Bottom line is the president is NEVER on vacation. Even when Clinton was on vacation in the virgin islands...he was not on vacation as we know it...the POTUS is NEVER on vacation. To say so is extremely ignorant. Were you complaining when Clinton bombed Afganistan while vacationing in Massachusetts?

2) The white house WAS in touch with every organization...hence the declaration of emergency BEFORE the event happened...which is extremely rare...it usually ALWAYS happens after. I know this because I work behind the scenes. Got some information that contradicts mine? Post it.

3) The Federal Gov't did a lot before it was asked...but there are legalities that rest on the state and local level. We were working the storm last week.

4) School bus drivers is stupid? When the Mayor FINALLY got around to ordering a mandatory evacuation the day AFTER he was begged by Mayfield of the NHC...they could have used buses (and that WAS the plan...BTW...occording to the exercise last year...) to pick up as many people as possible. Where do they go? Who cares...figure it out later...it's better than being stuck on your roof for 5 days.

5) Yes...everyone is entitled to their opinions. But that does not gaurantee that your opinion is right...as is the case here. Not every opinion can be right. You can chose to believe it or not...I really don't care. I am just trying to educate people on the how all this works...seeing how I do this for a living and have been doing it for 18 years. If anyone has a beef about what I am saying...and in your case...you say you would have had a plan...etc...then I say to you: What is YOUR experience of working disaster relief at the state, local, and federal level? Kinda easy to make a plan when you've never really been in charge of it...isn't it. Everyone thinks they can do better than Tom Brady....if someone would just trust THEM with the ball.

You see...in order for your "opinion" to amount to anything...it has to be based on facts and not emotions. Let's hear the facts to substantiate your opinion...and start with your experience of working with FEMA coordination b/w state, local,and federal disaster resonse. If you want to address your experience with MSCA...that would be a welcome discussion as well.

AS Steinfeld would say....yada yada yada.....Actions speak more than words.....those people saw no action for 4 days..case closed!

[PuertoRicoLibre]

This disaster was not made in a day or in a year or even 10 years. This has been a disaster brought about by denial, greed and the politics of race and class. There is enough blame to go around, at the municipal level, at the state level and at the federal level, for Democrats and Republicans, in office and long gone from office. What kind of building codes are those in Biloxi that allow for so much beach front wood construction (God only knows what crappy building codes they used) in the area of the US most prone to a catastrophic storm surge? If New Orleans is so flood prone, why do so many single family houses are allowed to be constructed in the deepest part of that bowl? Why is anything built in that part of town? Has that lake ever been dredged to increase its water retention capacity? What has been the wetland conservation policy for Southern LA in the last 20 years? Who allowed oil refineries to be built at the beach in the middle of the hurricane superhighway? Where was the FEMA plan to handle a disaster of this magnitude, as certain in its coming as the Big One in Los Angeles is? (I don't see a plan. I see a reaction to events.) And, did anybody think that giving an evacuation order that merely meant, get in your car if you have one and leave, was going to resolve the problem for the elderly, the invalid, and the poor? If you want people to leave, you need to give them the means to do so and a place to go, otherwise the weakest will be left behind to die. Dennis was a Cat. 4 over Cuba. It ransaked the country from left to right. Only 11 people died? Why? Because the Cubans deal with hurricane preparedness with the same dedication the Japanese deal with earthquake preparedness. I really hope this horrible experience will bring about long lasting policy changes.