"National Response Plan" implemented Dec. 2004

Discuss the recovery and aftermath of landfalling hurricanes. Please be sensitive to those that have been directly impacted. Political threads will be deleted without notice. This is the place to come together not divide.

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Mac

#21 Postby Mac » Mon Sep 05, 2005 10:53 am

Windy wrote:
Mac wrote:
Okay. If it was planned for, then why wasn't the governor able to control it?


How should I know? I was only commenting that it shocked me that you, who have so much experience in disaster response, was never trained to expect or deal with anarchy. I don't know why things broke down the way that they did in this particular instance. I was merely pointing out that something is seriously broken if nobody at any level in government anticipated or was prepared to deal with massive disorder in a power vaccume. Do you really think it'd be any less disorganized if someone nuked Los Angeles?


Again, I'm a medical professional. We train in recovery and aid. The military handles the anarchy. And if you look back at my posts, I clearly said that we DO expect some degree of chaos following disasters. We just don't train for the level of chaos that followed Katrina. It would be disingenuous of anybody to suggest this type of anarchy has ever been seen before following a natural disaster on American soil. So I'm a little bewildered that people would think that it should have been anticipated, given that it has never happened before.
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#22 Postby RichG » Mon Sep 05, 2005 11:05 am

I am sorry but I fail to see the historical relevance here. First, whole towns used to break into local jails and hang whomever they felt needed to be hung (see Richmond VA around 1900's) and NOT during natural disaster. However that seemed to have disappeared in the past 80 years. Does anybody know of any town in the usa today that would even think about doing that. Of course not. So you cannot use a time periood in our history where viloince was common as your historical base. By the way we used to have slavery, however that is now universally condmened as the darkest points in our history. So no I cannot believe there would have been anybodody that would have thought of and planned for roving gangs shooting fireman and engineers who are trying to save their lives.
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#23 Postby Mac » Mon Sep 05, 2005 11:07 am

MBismyPlayground wrote:MAC, I understand your post and all the logistics of it. I especially like this umm comment as it is so true.
"If they determine federal assistance is needed, there is a formal process for requesting that assistance--and that process does not include making pleas in front of the television cameras. "
Since you are obviously experienced and have credentials with FEMA I want to ask you a few questions as my curiosity along with several emotions have come into play.

I want to assume that these mayors and govenors have been given classes ect on Emergency management, but I don't want to assume, so are they??? Also, from some of the doc.s I have read, each state, city, county,parish also has their own team for emergency management as well. Correct? Do you know who and how often these people are trained and who trains them?? Also, since some of these people seem to be on volunteer status, how much responsibility falls on them if they do not do their job or follow thru on the plan that has been set down??

I know I am asking alot of questions that may seem to be moot, or water under the bridge but I want to understand the big picture, not the sketch that we have seen so far.

Also, and this is only your opinion, and I won't hold you to it.. :wink:

What are the reasons why a govenor would not allow the federal gov to take over, especially in a situation such as this??? Other then of course lose of control.


This is the City of New Orleans Comprehensive Emergency Management Plan. It outlines training responsibilities, etc.


II. CONCEPT OF OPERATIONS

Under the direction of the Mayor, the Office of Emergency Preparedness will coordinate activities in accordance with the Comprehensive Emergency Management Plan to assure the coordination of training programs for all planning, support, and response agencies. Departments, authorities, agencies, municipalities, and all private response organizations bear the responsibility of ensuring their personnel are sufficiently trained.

The Office of Emergency Preparedness will coordinate training provided by the Louisiana Office of Emergency Preparedness and the Federal Emergency Management Agency. Schedules of state emergency management training will be provided to all appropriate agencies. Applications for LOEP/FEMA courses will be submitted to the Director, Office of Emergency Preparedness for approval and submittal to LOEP.

III. TASKS

A. Director, Office of Emergency Preparedness

1. Coordination of all training activities of the various services of the Emergency Preparedness organization so as to obtain the highest degree of effectiveness in individual training, team or unit training, collective training, combined training and mock or practice emergency preparedness alerts.

The Director of the Office of Emergency Preparedness shall endeavor to take full advantage of courses offered by the Louisiana Office of Emergency Preparedness (LOEP), the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), the Louisiana Emergency Preparedness Association (LEPA) and other agencies, as well as conferences, seminars and workshops that may from time to time be available, most notably state hurricane conferences and workshops and the National Hurricane Conference. The Director will also establish procedures for the notification of available training opportunities to other City agencies and other governmental and private emergency response organizations. Specific duties to coordinate and monitor available training and educational opportunities shall be an operational task of the Administrative and Training Officer (ATO) of the Office of Emergency Preparedness. The ATO shall maintain close communication with the State Training Officer of the LOEP as to the availability of training opportunities, coordinate classes for local personnel and maintain tracking of courses taken, develop methods of sharing to information with other emergency management personnel within the jurisdiction, as well as arrange training and educational opportunities for non?emergency management personnel, particularly local elected and appointed officials. The ATO, conducts on an annual basis, training and information sharing workshops with all EOC representatives from various agencies. These workshops are conducted at the Emergency Support Function (ESF) level. Workshops include the review of existing EOC/ESF standard operating procedures, review of organization changes that affects EOC or field disaster response operations, updates key personnel lists and identifies training needs of new personnel, and orientation to improvements or changes to EOC/ESF resources or materials. From time to time, the ATO may undertake more intensive work sessions with elements of the emergency response organizations in order to enhance unified disaster planning.

2. Develops and conducts disaster exercises.

The Director of the Office of Emergency Preparedness shall continue to exercise all levels of the City government in emergency preparedness and response operations. Annually, a minimum of one full?scale functional exercise that utilizes all levels of City government shall be conducted. This functional exercise shall include the Mayor, elected and appointed officials, independent authorities, and such non?governmental agencies as shall be determined appropriate.

The Director of the Office of Emergency Preparedness shall participate in the development and execution of annual Mass Casualty Incidents. This participation may include scenario development, site selection, and recruitment of resources and personnel.

The Director of the Office of Emergency Preparedness shall continue to provide assistance to private industry, non?profit organizations, and community organizations through the offering of training, joint drills and exercises, response and recovery plan development, and information sharing. Included in this effort are the following organizations:

* Association of Contingency Planners (ACP)
* New Orleans Tourist and Information Bureau
* New Orleans Hospital Association

The Director shall also develop evaluation procedures either independently or in conjunction with other participants, in order to evaluate exercises and to incorporate necessary changes into the disaster response organization.

3. Coordinates, facilitates and encourages other elements of city government in emergency preparedness and response planning efforts.

The Director shall continue ongoing programs of directing and facilitating City agencies in the improvement of service providing during disasters through the development of emergency response self?assessments, long?term action plans, agency contingency plans, ESF standard operating procedures, and other mechanisms that may be identified.

The City of New Orleans requires every agency of the City government to perform emergency response self?assessments of their abilities to continue to provide essential services during and following a major emergency or disaster. The City further requires that corresponding long?term action plans to address identified short?comings be developed by each agency of the City and submitted to the Office of Emergency Preparedness for review and inclusion in coordinated action activities.

4. Participates in state level exercises.

Annually, in conjunction with the Louisiana Statewide Hurricane Exercise, the Office of Emergency Preparedness will sponsor and coordinate a Parish wide exercise of the local government's emergency management organization. To enhance the State's exercise, the OEP Director shall develop scenarios based upon expected local impacts of the exercise storm. If local impacts from the exercise storm are deemed less than needed to exercise the full emergency response organization, than the OEP may independently develop scenarios that would allow for the exercise of all city/parish resources.

5. Coordinates disaster preparedness training activities with others in such areas as shelter operations, transportation, hospitals and nursing homes, hurricane evacuation and recovery, etc. The OEP shall work in conjunction with all elements of the disaster response organization to enhance emergency response training. Activities shall include identification of School Board and Dept. Of Health staffs to be trained in shelter management operations, providing educational workshops and seminars to public and private entities, develop and direct committees assembled to address critical issues of emergency response, develop specialized informational brochures directed at select elements of the community, and other activities as may be identified.

B. City Departments, Constitutional Authorities, and All Emergency Response Agencies.

1. Ensure personnel are trained in appropriate plans and standard operating procedures (SOP's) for disaster operations.

The City of New Orleans requires that every City/Parish agency prepare an Agency Disaster Report assessing their ability to respond to any disaster or emergency that may either affect their agency or which may call upon that agency to perform response or relief efforts. Each agency, as part of the assessment process , is required to address numerous issues, including the disaster role of the agency, the validity of existing plans and procedures, the training of employees in their disaster response roles, family preparedness, and emergency use and acquisition of resources.

Once the self?assessment is completed, each agency is then required to develop and implement, with the assistance of the Office of Emergency Preparedness, a Long Term Action Plan which will enhance their emergency preparedness and disaster response.

2. Attend, or provide senior staff as representatives to disaster training exercises.

The City of New Orleans, in order to develop a citywide awareness of disaster response functions, requires that each agency designate an Emergency Coordinating Officer (ECO). The ECO is responsible for the preparing and maintaining of emergency preparedness and disaster response plans and procedures for their agency. Part of this responsibility includes participation in disaster training exercises and drills as may be available.

C. OEP Shelter Coordinator

1. Provides shelter management training program to designated shelter managers and disaster services personnel.

2. Maintain trained volunteer cadre for disaster response in areas of mass feeding, damage assessment, etc.

3. Participate in disaster exercises when requested.

4. Develop recruitment programs that will provide the additional manpower required to respond to a major emergency such as a hurricane.

D. Chief Administrative Officer

1. Ensure training programs are conducted for municipal personnel with disaster responsibilities.

2. Ensure participation of key emergency response personnel in City disaster exercises.

3. Conduct local emergency exercises.

E. Orleans Parish School Board.

1. Ensure identification and training of shelter personnel for public shelters utilizing public school locations.

2. Conduct disaster education programs and staff training.

F. Emergency Medical Service

1. Conduct annual mass casualty exercise in order to test response capabilities of emergency response agencies and medical facilities.

2. Conduct oral critique and written after?action reports for the mass casualty exercises.

IV. DRILLS, EXERCISES TRAINING SESSIONS

The City of New Orleans government will conduct at least one functional or full scale training exercise annually, which will test the response capabilities of all functions of city government, as well as the private organizations, Parish school system and other agencies required to respond to disasters.

These tests will be conducted by the Director of the Office of Emergency Preparedness and will be reviewed and assessed as to readiness by participants. Qualified observers may assist Emergency Preparedness personnel in evaluating the drills.

Private organizations, such as nursing homes, will be assisted by Emergency Preparedness personnel in conducting disaster drills as requested, and when required by State Law.

On a rotating basis in accordance with the schedule developed with the State Division of Emergency Management, the City shall conduct natural hazard, national security and technological exercises.

The Office of Emergency Preparedness shall conduct hurricane briefings and training sessions with the Mayor and his staff, Department Heads, municipal officials and all other governmental and private emergency response agencies.

On request, the Office of Emergency Preparedness shall brief elected officials on emergency management activities and hurricane preparedness.

The Office of Emergency Preparedness shall conduct hurricane and emergency management seminars when requested.

The Office of Emergency Preparedness shall participate in regional emergency preparedness planning sessions with other parishes and municipalities.

http://www.cityofno.com/portal.aspx?portal=46&tabid=26


Regarding the governor's failure to appropriately request federal assistance in the aftermath of Katrina--I can only speculate. Thus far, I have only come up with 2 reasonable possibilities:

a. Things were so chaotic in the aftermath that she just didn't understand the process of seeking federal intervention; or
b. She didn't want to relinquish control to the federal government, thereby giving voters the impression that she was unable to manage the crisis herself.

Unfortunately, I believe the latter to be more likely true.
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#24 Postby x-y-no » Mon Sep 05, 2005 11:22 am

Mac wrote:
Regarding the governor's failure to appropriately request federal assistance in the aftermath of Katrina--I can only speculate. Thus far, I have only come up with 2 reasonable possibilities:

a. Things were so chaotic in the aftermath that she just didn't understand the process of seeking federal intervention; or
b. She didn't want to relinquish control to the federal government, thereby giving voters the impression that she was unable to manage the crisis herself.

Unfortunately, I believe the latter to be more likely true.


I'v been trying to understand why her letter of 8/27/2005 did not constitute the requisite request for assistance. Perhaps you could shed some light on that?

Specifically, she wrote in part:

In response to the situation I have taken appropriate action under State law and directed the execution of the State Emergency Plan on August 26, 2005 in accordance with Section 501 (a) of the Stafford Act. A State of Emergency has been issued for the State in order to support the evacuations of the coastal areas in accordance with our State Evacuation Plan and the remainder of the state to support the State Special Needs and Sheltering Plan.

Pursuant to 44 CFR § 206.35, I have determined that this incident is of such severity and magnitude that effective response is beyond the capabilities of the State and affected local governments, and that supplementary Federal assistance is necessary to save lives, protect property, public health, and safety, or to lessen or avert the threat of a disaster. I am specifically requesting emergency protective measures, direct Federal Assistance, Individual and Household Program (IHP) assistance, Special Needs Program assistance, and debris removal.


and ...

I certify that for this emergency, the State and local governments will assume all applicable non-Federal share of costs required by the Stafford Act.

I request Direct Federal assistance for work and services to save lives and protect property.



http://gov.louisiana.gov/Press_Release_detail.asp?id=976

Now there's some itemization of specific requests in the letter (which look to me to be wild under-estimates) but I'm failing to see any language which limits the requested aid to those items. Maybe that's just my fault for not being too familiar with bureaucratese.
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#25 Postby MBismyPlayground » Mon Sep 05, 2005 11:22 am

Mac, thanks for the post back.....
Trying to put it all together. :roll:

I notice that there is nothing listed as to what would happen to these people if they do not follow thru on their given tasks. Are there reprimands associated with these duties if one does not fufill their assigned tasks???

As for the Gov.......I agree with you. But by this time, her voters KNOW and have seen what she is or is not capable of. Its a little late,isn't it, for her to be playing this power game and for her to continue to keep grasping the reins. That horse got away a long time ago.
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#26 Postby Terry » Mon Sep 05, 2005 11:33 am

I'm trying to figure out the chain of command stuff and am missing some pieces for sure.

What else did Gov. Blanco need to legally do/sign besides sign the Declaration of Emergency? (which she signed on August 26th).

For example, did the Gov need to sign a separate document to implement federal military help under the Insurrection Act or is that covered under her Declaration of Emergency?

The Insurrection Act (Title 10 USC, Sections 331-335). This act allows the president to use U.S. military personnel at the request of a state legislature or governor to suppress insurrections. It also allows the president to use federal troops to enforce federal laws when rebellion against the authority of the U.S. makes it impracticable to enforce the laws of the U.S.


http://www.northcom.mil/index.cfm?fusea ... actsheet=5
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#27 Postby Mac » Mon Sep 05, 2005 11:36 am

x-y-no wrote:
Mac wrote:
Regarding the governor's failure to appropriately request federal assistance in the aftermath of Katrina--I can only speculate. Thus far, I have only come up with 2 reasonable possibilities:

a. Things were so chaotic in the aftermath that she just didn't understand the process of seeking federal intervention; or
b. She didn't want to relinquish control to the federal government, thereby giving voters the impression that she was unable to manage the crisis herself.

Unfortunately, I believe the latter to be more likely true.


I'v been trying to understand why her letter of 8/27/2005 did not constitute the requisite request for assistance. Perhaps you could shed some light on that?

Specifically, she wrote in part:

In response to the situation I have taken appropriate action under State law and directed the execution of the State Emergency Plan on August 26, 2005 in accordance with Section 501 (a) of the Stafford Act. A State of Emergency has been issued for the State in order to support the evacuations of the coastal areas in accordance with our State Evacuation Plan and the remainder of the state to support the State Special Needs and Sheltering Plan.

Pursuant to 44 CFR § 206.35, I have determined that this incident is of such severity and magnitude that effective response is beyond the capabilities of the State and affected local governments, and that supplementary Federal assistance is necessary to save lives, protect property, public health, and safety, or to lessen or avert the threat of a disaster. I am specifically requesting emergency protective measures, direct Federal Assistance, Individual and Household Program (IHP) assistance, Special Needs Program assistance, and debris removal.


and ...

I certify that for this emergency, the State and local governments will assume all applicable non-Federal share of costs required by the Stafford Act.

I request Direct Federal assistance for work and services to save lives and protect property.



http://gov.louisiana.gov/Press_Release_detail.asp?id=976

Now there's some itemization of specific requests in the letter (which look to me to be wild under-estimates) but I'm failing to see any language which limits the requested aid to those items. Maybe that's just my fault for not being too familiar with bureaucratese.


I will not pretend to know every detail regarding the logistics of a state requesting federal intervention, but I do know that there is a very specific process by which this must be done. Quite frankly, Blanco should have been aware of this process way ahead of time and had everything in place to act accordingly if need be. The letter she sent to the President was inadequate, and she was asked by the federal government to submit the correct requests for federal assistance. It is my understanding--both from what I've read in the media and discussing the matter with insiders--that she refused that request. She wanted to maintain control of the situation. And that's just not how the process works.

When it comes time to request federal intervention, you are doing so because you are unable to control the situation locally. If you take the federal government's assistance, you relinquish control of operations. It's that simple. States do not control federal resources.
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#28 Postby x-y-no » Mon Sep 05, 2005 11:50 am

Mac wrote:I will not pretend to know every detail regarding the logistics of a state requesting federal intervention, but I do know that there is a very specific process by which this must be done. Quite frankly, Blanco should have been aware of this process way ahead of time and had everything in place to act accordingly if need be. The letter she sent to the President was inadequate, and she was asked by the federal government to submit the correct requests for federal assistance. It is my understanding--both from what I've read in the media and discussing the matter with insiders--that she refused that request. She wanted to maintain control of the situation. And that's just not how the process works.


Well, that's what I was seeking clarification on ... exactly why was this letter inadequate? I've seen the assertion many times, but never an explanation.

When it comes time to request federal intervention, you are doing so because you are unable to control the situation locally. If you take the federal government's assistance, you relinquish control of operations. It's that simple. States do not control federal resources.


Again, I'll defer to your expertise, but I'm a bit confused because it seems to me I've seen intermediate levels of cooperation in the past. Did Florida reliquish all control of relief efforts after last year's storms? Maybe we did nad I just didn't hear about it.
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#29 Postby themusk » Mon Sep 05, 2005 11:50 am

Mac wrote:Emergency preparedness/disaster management happens to be my field of research.


From what you've subsequently said it does not sound like you are a researcher.

I have been a hazards researcher: i.e., have been party to a whole bunch (it's interdisciplinary) of Ph.D.'s, grad sudents, and other academics, most of whose knowledge of response is, at best, academic, asking questions like "how did the victims of this flood die, what could they have done to save themselves, and what can we do to better equip themselves to save themselves?", or "How do people really respond when given x-variety-of-warning?" or "what will happen in case of Y level of floodwaters traveling down X creek?", or "why do people ignore warnings?", or "What happens to buildings in city Z if unlikely-but-possible earthquake hits?" etc.

My angle is sociological, and although I've been retired on disability for some time, after seeing what has been happening in recent disasters to special needs populations (pure self interest: I'm one of them) I have been trying to muster my energy to do more publication-worthy research. I'm right now trying to formalize plans for either a survey (cheaper, less reliable) or an experiment (more reliable, very expensive) testing the ability of a randomly selected sample of independently living subjects with special needs to engage in a basic set of preparedness behaviors (to gather appropriate supplies, store them, maintain them, access them, and seek shelter -- if an experiment, the "shelter" will be some arbitrarily chosen sheltered position readily accessed by an able-bodied and able-minded individual, if a survey I'll run through the availability of various sorts of shelter (high ground, from high winds, from toxic chemical releases, etc.). Since this would be a study of capacity, not knowledge, the subjects would be educated in advance about preparedness behaviors.

I have not been a responder. I had gone through some FEMA training at one point in order to orient myself better when it comes to the real world, but I have no boots on the ground experience as either a responder or a planner.
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#30 Postby Terry » Mon Sep 05, 2005 12:11 pm

OK, Blanco signed the Declaration of Emergency on August 26 and then sent a letter to the president on August 27 requesting more federal assistance, but not requesting martial law.

Is there a provision allowing Homeland Security or the President to so intervene when they see a city burning (so to speak) and the Governor not responding appropriately?
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#31 Postby jburns » Mon Sep 05, 2005 12:28 pm

Mac wrote:
Windy wrote:
Mac wrote:
I'll reassert my challenge--show me an example of a past natural disaster where murderers and rapists took control of a city.

.


I have to say that this is one of the weakest arguments I have seen to support the government in what has happened. Perhaps it hasn't happened before because in every other disaster there was a quick enough response to prevent it.
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#32 Postby x-y-no » Mon Sep 05, 2005 12:30 pm

Terry wrote:OK, Blanco signed the Declaration of Emergency on August 26 and then sent a letter to the president on August 27 requesting more federal assistance, but not requesting martial law.

Is there a provision allowing Homeland Security or the President to so intervene when they see a city burning (so to speak) and the Governor not responding appropriately?


Well, I don't know for sure ... but this is from the plan cited in th OP of this thread:

Guiding principles for proactive Federal response include the following:

■ The primary mission is to save lives; protect critical infrastructure, property, and the environment; contain the event; and preserve national security.

Standard procedures regarding requests for assistance may be expedited or, under extreme circumstances, suspended in the immediate aftermath of an event of catastrophic magnitude.

■ Identified Federal response resources will deploy and begin necessary operations as required to commence life-safety activities.

Notification and full coordination with States will occur, but the coordination process must not delay or impede the rapid deployment and use of critical resources. States are urged to notify and coordinate with local governments regarding a proactive Federal response.

■ State and local governments are encouraged to conduct collaborative planning with the Federal Government as a part of "steady-state" preparedness for catastrophic incidents.
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#33 Postby artist » Mon Sep 05, 2005 12:38 pm

wonder what happened?
from the Talkin Tropics board -
Posted: Tue May 31, 2005 8:02 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here is the article!

nola.com


PREPARING FOR THE WORST

Officials rework evacuation strategy
By Mark Schleifstein Staff writer

Tuesday, May 31, 2005

With the six-month hurricane season opening Wednesday, local emergency planners are fine-tuning evacuation plans, including changes to last year's rage-inducing scheme to use both sides of the interstate and a new effort to bus thousands of people without personal transportation out of New Orleans.

And with another busy season predicted, national hurricane experts say they will release more information this year, partly because they're hoping to encourage evacuation or precautions sooner, and partly because they'll have more data from a new automated reporting system throughout the Gulf of Mexico.

"I can't emphasize enough how concerned I am with southeast Louisiana because of its unique characteristics, its complex levee system," National Hurricane Center Director Max Mayfield said. "I know I've said this before, but the potential for a large loss of life from a hurricane is greater in southeast Louisiana than anywhere else on the Gulf Coast."

The local changes are meant to improve on a less-than-satisfactory evacuation response across the New Orleans area last year when a powerful Hurricane Ivan was bearing down on the city. It swerved and crashed ashore at the Alabama-Florida border, wiping away homes and condominiums and causing hundreds of millions of dollars in damage, some of which still hasn't been repaired.

In what ended up being a frustrating move last year for emergency planners and evacuees alike, drivers were allowed to use both sides of Interstate 10 to go west. But a number of glitches conspired to make the 90-mile drive to Baton Rouge take up to 10 hours. At times, Ivan was moving faster than traffic on the interstate.

Under this year's plan, the number of lanes on major traffic arteries out of the New Orleans area will increase from eight to 11. All lanes of Interstate 10 in East Jefferson will go westbound beginning at Clearview Parkway in Metairie, instead of at Loyola Drive in Kenner five miles farther west. Most westbound travel on Interstate 12 in St. Tammany Parish will be prohibited. To the north of I-12, all lanes of I-55 and I-59 will carry evacuees north into Mississippi.

In addition, state workers will restripe the northbound I-10 bridge from Irish Bayou to Slidell so evacuees will have three outbound lanes across Lake Pontchartrain.

Evacuees will need to plan ahead, because where they enter the interstate and which bridge they use will determine where they end up.

The plan calls for a four-phase evacuation beginning 50 hours before tropical storm-force winds are expected to hit the Louisiana coast. First out would be residents south of the Intracoastal Waterway, including residents of the Lower 9th Ward of New Orleans and the east bank of the Mississippi River in St. Bernard and Plaquemines parishes. At 40 hours, the West Bank would be evacuated. At 30 hours, contraflow restrictions will kick in and the east bank of New Orleans and East Jefferson would be urged to evacuate. Contraflow would end six hours before the storm makes landfall.

Maps showing the details of the contraflow plan should be issued by the state in June, officials said.


Busing planned


The busing evacuation plan is a work in progress. Details likely will remain murky until time to implement the plan, because officials don't want people heading to a particular place expecting a ride. Those without transportation need to be planning now how they'll get to safety, New Orleans Emergency Preparedness Director Joseph Matthews said.

"It's important to emphasize that we just don't have the resources to take everybody out," Matthews said.

He said the viability of the bus plan depends on whether Regional Transit Authority and New Orleans public school officials find enough volunteer drivers.

New Orleans is in an unusual situation, compared with neighboring parishes, because more than a quarter of its residents have no personal transportation. According to the most recent census data, about 134,000 out of the city's 480,000 people are without cars, said Shirley Laska, director of the University of New Orleans' Center for Hazards Assessment, Response & Technology.

If the buses are used, Matthews said those on board will have to be patient.

"Lets face it," he said. "In time of an emergency, if we wait until the new contraflow plan is put in effect to begin this plan, it will take anywhere from four to six hours to get people as far as Baton Rouge.

"And we have to arrange for things as simple as finding strategic points along the route for bathrooms and water, for security and medical personnel to accompany the convoy in case of medical needs."

Matthews said the plan is to take people from 10 pickup points throughout the city to one or more shelters north of Interstate 12.

City officials also are cooperating with the American Red Cross, Total Community Action and the University of New Orleans in developing a faith-based hurricane response system that includes a buddy system for evacuation.

Operation Brother's Keeper, financed with a grant from the Baptist Community Ministries, is aimed at assisting religious institutions in both preparing for a hurricane and in finding ways to pair with other religious institutions north of the lake to provide transportation and shelter.

There are four pilot churches this year, with a goal of providing assistance to about 2,000 residents.

Red Cross officials recommend that families put together emergency kits including personal financial information, flashlights, first-aid kits, medicines and other supplies, which can be used during evacuations or during other non-hurricane emergencies.


Stormy weather


The National Hurricane Center predicted this month there would be 12 to 15 tropical storms this season, with seven to nine becoming hurricanes and three to five becoming major hurricanes.

Mayfield, the Hurricane Center's director, said a new experimental forecasting product being rolled out by the center this year should help emergency preparedness officials in making decisions on evacuations.

The center will publish a map and a written statement with the probability of 35 mph, 58 mph and 75 mph or greater winds occuring in areas along a storm's forecast path.

"Emergency managers can take the product and go to their local officials and say there's a 20 percent probability of being hit by hurricane-force winds, and that might be enough to convince them to take action," Mayfield said.

Such products are usually tested for a year or two before being made a permanent part of the national hurricane forecasting array, he said.

Local National Weather Service forecast offices also will be issuing local inland hurricane statements and will place more emphasis on them, Mayfield said.

That effort is aimed at getting people in shoreline areas, such as along Florida's coast, to evacuate to the closest inland location available to avoid inland flooding, he said.

Hurricane researchers and emergency preparedness officials also could begin benefiting this year from a growing national and worldwide observing system, which includes buoys and other observation points in the Gulf of Mexico and along the coast.

Speaking at the American Geophysical Union's Joint Assembly last week, a gathering of four international earth and space science organizations, Landry Bernard of the National Data Buoy Center at Stennis Space Center said efforts are under way to create a $30 million-a-year observation program in the Gulf by 2011.

Information from the beginnings of that system already has helped researchers understand how a combination of storm surge and wind-driven waves damaged or destroyed stretches of Interstate 10 bridges over Alabama's Mobile Bay and Florida's Pensacola Bay during Hurricane Ivan last year.

Several decks were knocked off their piers by a surge of 12 feet combined with locally generated waves of 6 ½ feet to 10 feet, said Jim Chen, a researcher with the Coastal Transportation Engineering Research and Education Center at the University of South Alabama.

Such information is expected to be useful in designing improvements to bridges all along I-10 in the Gulf region, he said.

New data also will be available this year about the underwater effects of hurricanes that pass across offshore oil rigs, thanks to new Minerals Management Service rules.

The federal agency, which regulates oil production in federal waters, now requires each platform to measure underwater currents from a few feet below the surface to a rig's bottom, and to report it every 20 minutes to the buoy center at Stennis, said Don Conlee, who runs the collection program.

He said there already are 20 companies participating in the new database. The information will be available for a variety of users, including the National Hurricane Center, which could use it in hurricane prediction models.

. . . . . . .


Mark Schleifstein can be reached at mschleifstein@timespicayune.com or (504) 826-3327.
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Mac

#34 Postby Mac » Mon Sep 05, 2005 2:40 pm

themusk wrote:
Mac wrote:Emergency preparedness/disaster management happens to be my field of research.


From what you've subsequently said it does not sound like you are a researcher.


I was a Navy Corpsman. I'm a volunteer with American Red Cross Disaster Services, and a member of the Medical Reserve Corps. I am a graduate nursing student at Vanderbilt University, conducting research regarding the deployment and utlization of advanced practice nurses in response to mass casualty incidents, including biological, chemical, radioactive incidents as well as natural disasters. I've had countless hours of training through FEMA, and participated in countless disaster drills. And, yes, I've been a first responder.

But my purpose here is merely to discuss issues, not to educate or impress anybody with my curriculum vitae. So feel free to take or leave my statements any way you like.
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#35 Postby Windy » Mon Sep 05, 2005 4:51 pm

RichG wrote:I am sorry but I fail to see the historical relevance here. First, whole towns used to break into local jails and hang whomever they felt needed to be hung (see Richmond VA around 1900's) and NOT during natural disaster. However that seemed to have disappeared in the past 80 years. Does anybody know of any town in the usa today that would even think about doing that. Of course not. So you cannot use a time periood in our history where viloince was common as your historical base. By the way we used to have slavery, however that is now universally condmened as the darkest points in our history. So no I cannot believe there would have been anybodody that would have thought of and planned for roving gangs shooting fireman and engineers who are trying to save their lives.


You fail to see how history is relevant? Humans have been doing this in destroyed cities for the past 10,000 years. Why should we be any different?

I think the general American populace believes that they're too civilized for this to ever happen. I have no problem with that, though it's innacurate. Governmental emergency planners, however, MUST be more pragmatic than idealistic. They MUST assume that significant disasters, manmade or otherwise, carry a risk of anarchy, and they must train to respond to it. You must remember, for example, the the primary reason FEMA was created during the Cold War was to deal with the prospect of a post-nuclear-holocaust America. Don't see a lot of order following that kind of scenario -- surely they planned for a little post-apocylpse civil unrest? Similarly, I'm a little worried that it took them a week to get supply chains going to just one destroyed American city, when their charter requires them to be able to do this for THOUSANDS of cities, simultainiously. There are going to be a LOT of questions on the state, local, and federal level once we're done saving lives. As a citizen of this country, I feel particuarly discomforted that the main agency that's designed to maintain national continuity of government can't even respond effectively to a regional-level catastrophe. Were I a citizen of Louisiana, I would be very discomforted that the state was not better prepared. And were I a citizen of New Orleans, I'd probably be asking myself why I ever moved to such a geographically dangerous area in the first place and why the people in charge of the city did not do more to ensure that there was a comprehensive and executable plan to get people out who, because of special-needs or lack of transportation, could not get out.
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#36 Postby RichG » Mon Sep 05, 2005 5:11 pm

History is relevant, I said I do not see your historical point as relevant. As a culture we have evolved as per my previous points. I do reject that this could have happened in any city. I believe there was a certain small but violent criminal element in NO which was more likley to create this kind of chaos. I think what we have here is a massive disconnect from civilization in which most people would not even contemplate. I am not talking about looting but the attack on the first responders. I am sorry however I doubt anybody reading this board or posting would have even thought that was a remote possibility besides a likely probability.
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#37 Postby Windy » Mon Sep 05, 2005 5:32 pm

RichG wrote:History is relevant, I said I do not see your historical point as relevant. As a culture we have evolved as per my previous points. I do reject that this could have happened in any city.


How can you reject that something can happen after it just happened? This isn't an intellectual debate about whether or not a modern American city can devolve into anarchy or not -- one just did.

I believe there was a certain small but violent criminal element in NO which was more likley to create this kind of chaos.


The same can be said about ANY metropolis. This is why he have "police". When the police almost completely go away, are massively overtasked, or are rendered ineffective for a period of days, those people take over.

I think what we have here is a massive disconnect from civilization in which most people would not even contemplate. I am not talking about looting but the attack on the first responders. I am sorry however I doubt anybody reading this board or posting would have even thought that was a remote possibility besides a likely probability.


Ah -- then I think you agree with me. That "massive disconnect from civilization" is called anarchy. The thing about anarchy, though, is that the types of situations in which it flourishes are fairly well known. Maybe not to the average Joe, but certainly to the federal PhD thinktanks and high-level military planners who consider these types of scenarios.
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#38 Postby Mac » Mon Sep 05, 2005 7:52 pm

x-y-no wrote:
Mac wrote:I will not pretend to know every detail regarding the logistics of a state requesting federal intervention, but I do know that there is a very specific process by which this must be done. Quite frankly, Blanco should have been aware of this process way ahead of time and had everything in place to act accordingly if need be. The letter she sent to the President was inadequate, and she was asked by the federal government to submit the correct requests for federal assistance. It is my understanding--both from what I've read in the media and discussing the matter with insiders--that she refused that request. She wanted to maintain control of the situation. And that's just not how the process works.


Well, that's what I was seeking clarification on ... exactly why was this letter inadequate? I've seen the assertion many times, but never an explanation.

When it comes time to request federal intervention, you are doing so because you are unable to control the situation locally. If you take the federal government's assistance, you relinquish control of operations. It's that simple. States do not control federal resources.


Again, I'll defer to your expertise, but I'm a bit confused because it seems to me I've seen intermediate levels of cooperation in the past. Did Florida reliquish all control of relief efforts after last year's storms? Maybe we did nad I just didn't hear about it.


I believe that cooperation between state and federal officials during the storms in FL last year went very smoothly. But there probably wouldn't be the typical power struggles that are seen between federal and state authorities in some instances, given that the governor of FL and President are brothers. :wink:

However, the governor of FL when Andrew hit in '92 (can't recall his name off the top of my head) was very hesitant to relinquish control to the federal government. As I recall, it took a personal plea from a top cabinet official to persuade him to request and allow federal intervention.
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#39 Postby shaggy » Mon Sep 05, 2005 8:37 pm

first off what a great and informative thread this is and how fortunate we are to have such sound and logical opinions to share.I am astounded at the blame game as for the short term it is pointless now we should concentrate on saving lives and feeding and healing the sick and wounded.

I do believe that the local officials dropped the ball and at first lost control while the president and the federal officials were not prepared for the failure of the local level and maybe were not prepared themselves.Again all this is hindsight and finger pointing which needs to be put aside.There are a ton of people that are to blame right down to some of the people that REFUSED to leave thats just suicidal in a city thats below sea level with a storm of katrinas size coming.

The reason for my opinion is the intervies i just heard on Fox news.The head of the AL NG said his governer issued and mandotory evac a full 24 hours before neighboring states and activated the NG at that moment.They had aid flowing almost immed. after the winds and water started to subside.Only 2 deaths were reported in AL and this is a direct result of that states preparedness.

I do not believe that local government of LA was prepared for such a disaster and the fact that this will likely become the deadliest US disaster in history that happened to one of the most vulnerable cities in the country when that threat has been discussed for YEARS shows the complacency and unpreparedness that was abundant in NOLA before this storm hit.
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Interesting discussion

#40 Postby Tommedic » Mon Sep 05, 2005 8:52 pm

After reading these comments, I felt I had to speak out. As noted by an AP story today, the first LEVEL ONE TRAUMA FIELD HOSPITAL in the US was deployed to Mississippi. In NC we have a series of what we call SMAT teams to provide Emergency Medical, field medical treatment, and decontamination in the event of a disaster, natural or man-made. Part of that system includes the Level One team from UNC Chapel Hill. Originally, the team that was sent was requested by FEMA to deploy to New Orleans. Just prior to departure from Charlotte, the team was informed they would be delayed. They were diverted to MS. "it is hard to imagine that the doctors weren't allowed to set up shop in Louisiana, their original destination. They were stymied by red tape there." "He said the delay in getting deployed was a dispute with Louisiana over what they'd be allowed to do. Yet he held back criticism." according to AP.

Mac is correct in many of the things he said. Ultimately, it is the local community that determines what training is required for their leaders. FEMA has an ongoing schedule of classes for emergency managers and community leaders. They also will provide specialized classes for the local government leaders. Here in Wilmington, NC, we sent our entire county commissioners, Fire Leaders, EMS, Public Utilities, etc. They perform desktop planning and try to work out the bugs before a catastrophe. I cannot explain the why's and wherefore's of what happened here. Was it political, a Democrat governor and a Republican president or was it ego, or worse yet was it incompetence? I feel that the Civil Defense/Emergency Managers from the local to state level share much of the burden. They should have been jumping down the throats of the politicians, trying to push them to be more aggressive. This is just my humble opinion.

Yes, FEMA should have an individual that has EM experience as its leader instead of a politician. Yes, FEMA should be separate from Homeland Security. I would love to see Dan Summers, formerly Emergency Management Director of New Hanover County in Wilmington, NC and now in Florida, can't remember county.
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