Canadians beat army and FEMA to St. Bernard Parish

[Praxus]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050908/wl_ ... relans_col

"A Canadian search-and-rescue team reached a flooded New Orleans suburb to help save trapped residents five days before the U.S. military, a Louisiana state senator said on Wednesday."

Thought that was kinda interesting...

[BroncoChuck]

very intersting

damn i love the responce to this crisis. Thank god the goverment is on the ball on this. Makes me feel safe and warm inside waiting for the next hurricane to hit pcola...

[GalvestonDuck]

How was the US military supposed to go in when the Gov. of LA wouldn't say yes?

[BroncoChuck]

i ment local and federal goverment. Its everyones fault on this. There will be MORE THEN ENOUGH blame for everyone involved.

[stormie_skies]

None of this makes any sense to me.

If all of this was up to the governor, why would she allow the Canadian search and rescue in, but not the American search and rescue??? That is absurd on the most basic level...

Do we know for sure that she blatantly refused help - and who she refused it from? I know FEMA turned quite a few things away because they did not have the proper paperwork or clearance... was she working with FEMA when (and if) she turned help away, or was she working against FEMA??

Wasn't there a clause in a bill pertaining to homeland security that allowed the federal government to supercede local government to intervene in a situation like this one that could be considered a national crisis (there were several other threads on this)? If the governor was really so inept as to turn away most sources of aid, why didn't the feds step in and tell her to get out of the way??

My head is spinning just trying to keep track of all of this....

[GalvestonDuck]

My head is spinning just trying to keep track of all of this....

You? Look at me -- I got the brain the size of a walnut.

[mf_dolphin]

The LA Gov's actions have been mostly ones of inaction or delayed action which is equally bad. As to this thread, I don't see anywhere that they mentioned that the Canadians were "authorized" to be there. I applaud their initiative! Unfortunately we now have three chains of command; 1. New Orleans Mayor - NO Police, 2. LA Gov - LA National Guard and State employees (Fish&Wildlife etc), 3. Federal. We know for a fact that 1 & 2 can't agree on almost anything.

[dougjp]

My guess is the Canadians saw a need and just went. Who was going to stop them, and if they were, they would have just gone a few miles down the road and helped others. Love that attitude!

[stormie_skies]

The LA Gov's actions have been mostly ones of inaction or delayed action which is equally bad. As to this thread, I don't see anywhere that they mentioned that the Canadians were "authorized" to be there. I applaud their initiative! Unfortunately we now have three chains of command; 1. New Orleans Mayor - NO Police, 2. LA Gov - LA National Guard and State employees (Fish&Wildlife etc), 3. Federal. We know for a fact that 1 & 2 can't agree on almost anything.

Yeah, I don't disagree concerning the governor...she has been hysterical and pretty irrational from the beginning, from what I can tell. But if the state government has been making the decisions as to who can help and when, and if they were controling the main routes in and out of the city, then how could the Canadians get in without some kind of authorization? And if they could get in without authorization, why didn't American groups - and our government - do the same? Isn't that what the clause allowing the feds to supercede the state government in times of crisis means?

As for the three chains of command - the NO police seem to be taking a back seat now, which makes a ton of sense, they are so overworked at this point. While I understand that it might be easier to have the National Guard and the active military under the same chain of command, isnt it true that if the governor had signed away control of the Guard to the feds, they wouldn't have been able to do law enforcement duty? I know thats what the cable news nets were saying....

Ack.

I feel sorry for the commission thats gonna try to sort all this out.

[x-y-no]

I'm with stormie and duckie as far as having a spinning head ...

As far as my (very general) impressions go ...

It seems the Mayor may have performed somewhat better than I initially thought, at least post-storm. But he appears to have made some significant mistakes prior to the storm arriving.

The governor appears to have screwed up the most, particularly post-storm.

The feds have been a mixed bag ... some elements have performed outstandingly, others not too good.

That's just my impression so far, and is obviously subject to revision with more information. I sure don't envy the folks tasked with sorting out the truth of all of this ...

[Praxus]

Given the warning people had before the hurricane even hit; I would
have expected organized rescue efforts in most of the affected areas
getting under way on tuesday. Especially since, regardless of the warning on saturday - this scenario had supposedly been practiced for much earlier, so there should have been an organized plan put into action immediately. Co-ordination of the different levels of government including command and control of the overall rescue effort should have been part of that plan.

[HurriCat]

Read every single post in this thread and others like it. Notice all of the sage advice and common-sensing - the entire spectrum of awareness, preparedness and planning, foresight, woulda-coulda-shouldas, timing, taking action and responsibility, et-cetera.

Now, why is this all so expected of everyone except the individuals who live in such a location (below sea-level) and then stay put without even basic supplies?

[deb_in_nc]

Actually I don't see why FEMA or someone didn't have some of the people bused out before the storm. School buses, city buses or any way they could. But then who am I to suggest such a thing.

Debbie

[gtalum]

Actually I don't see why FEMA or someone didn't have some of the people bused out before the storm. School buses, city buses or any way they could. But then who am I to suggest such a thing.

"Someone" should have, but it shouldn't have been FEMA. Evacuation is the responsibility of local authorities.

[Mattie]

Glad to have the Canadians - after this report - - -



7:02 P.M. - ATLANTA (AP): Hundreds of firefighters have been sitting in Atlanta, playing cards and taking FEMA history classes, instead of doing what they came to do: help hurricane victims.

The volunteers traveled south and west from around the country, leaving their homes in places like Washington state, Pennsylvania and Michigan. They came after FEMA put out a call for two-thousand firefighters to help with community service.

Firefighters arrived, as told, with lifesaving equipment and sleeping bags.

But one of the waiting volunteers says it might have been better if they'd brought paper and cell phones. That's because some of the emergency responders are being told they will go to South Carolina, to do paperwork.

Others don't know where they'll be put in action.

The FEMA director in charge of firefighters says he's trying to get the volunteers deployed ASAP, but wants to make sure they go to the right place.

One firefighter points to nightly reports of hurricane victims asking how they were forgotten. He says, "we didn't forget, we're stuck in Atlanta drinking beer."

http://www.wwltv.com/local/stories/WWLBLOG.ac3fcea.html

[artist]

in the state of La. plan they had those provisions in there that they would do that. That is not FEMA"S responsibility. As well as New (Orleans plan.

[mf_dolphin]

Yeah, I don't disagree concerning the governor...she has been hysterical and pretty irrational from the beginning, from what I can tell. But if the state government has been making the decisions as to who can help and when, and if they were controling the main routes in and out of the city, then how could the Canadians get in without some kind of authorization?

They Canadians are not in New Orleans which is the only place I know The LA Guard are controlling right now. I guarantee you a small team could even get into New Orleans if they really wanted to.

And if they could get in without authorization, why didn't American groups - and our government - do the same? Isn't that what the clause allowing the feds to supercede the state government in times of crisis means?

Most American Groups are going to abide by the authority in place. The only clause I'm aware of that would allow the President to take over a State's domain would be in the event of a National Emergency. We're talking about a huge State's Rights issue with grave Constitutional implications.

As for the three chains of command - the NO police seem to be taking a back seat now, which makes a ton of sense, they are so overworked at this point. While I understand that it might be easier to have the National Guard and the active military under the same chain of command, isnt it true that if the governor had signed away control of the Guard to the feds, they wouldn't have been able to do law enforcement duty?

As I understand it these are 2 seperate issues. The Govenor could have allowed the Federalization of the LA National Guard. This would have allowed the military to work under a unified command but would not have allowed law enforcement activities by the active duty personel. I'm not sure if the National Guard would have lost their law enforcement abilities under the Federalization option. In order for the active duty military to enforce state and local laws a Martial Law declaration would have had to taken place. This means the LA Gov would have had to request this and the Congress/President approve it. The NO Mayor's declaration of Martial Law is nothing but verbage in reality.

That's at least my understanding of the questions you asked.

[gunner1551]

The Canadian team is a highly trained urban search and rescue unit completely self-contained developed in Vancouver, British Columbia as part of an overall plan for emergency preparedness. http://www.can-tf1.org/whatisusar.html

They don't "just go" to a disaster, they are invited and were invited by the Louisiana State officials according to this CTV article:
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/s ... e=&no_ads=


They have now returned home as the mission has become one of body recovery more than search and rescue. Seems like a good idea for all major cities to have such a team(s) that could be deployed at a moments notice.

[mf_dolphin]

Thanks for the info Gunner. With that bit of information I guess I don't understand what the Senator's issue was then. If they are part of the organized rescue effort what does it matter where they came from? It would seem to make perfect sense that resources are assigned as needed and as available.

[Miss Mary]

Well, God Bless them is all I can say (we've vacationed in Canada, loved it up there).

So many "shoulds" going around....that is what I call them. I was raised on the "shoulds".....you should do this or that, they should pay attention better, follow orders, on and on. I also heard a lot about "they" too.

But that's off subject...as soon as I read articles that state what should have been done, I think of my mom! She's the queen of second guessing and the "shoulds".....

Here's my 2 cents worth - we all know real help should have arrived much sooner. Let's just admit that, correct this wrong, help now and keep on helping. Period.

Ah, but human nature as it is, will want to blame someone else. It's a big person who comes forward and says, I made a mistake. I apologize.

Okay, I'm done for my rant of the day!

Mary