Katrina - Ground Zero at home

[Scorpion]

It takes awhile to do a complete reanalysis. Not 2 weeks. And they also have Emily's max intensity at 110 kts?

[dhweather]

http://www.wlox.com - Keesler AFB reported sustained winds of 105, gusts
to 140 when the instrument failed.


KAFB is 33ft above MSL - 4-8 feet of water swamped the base.

Diamondhead FD reported 146MPH at instrument failure.

MY anemometer was hit by an object and destroyed early on.

[Brent]

Surge doesn't make it a Cat 5... that's the thing that will keep this from being a Cat 5.

[Scorpion]

Wow, those reports if true would show a strong 4(130 kts or so) at MS. Not sure about that with the pressure(927 mb) but if true then perhaps 135 kts or 140 kt at Buras is possible.

[Brent]

www.wlox.com - Keesler AFB reported sustained winds of 105, gusts
to 140 when the instrument failed.


KAFB is 33ft above MSL - 4-8 feet of water swamped the base.

Diamondhead FD reported 146MPH at instrument failure.

MY anemometer was hit by an object and destroyed early on.

That's the 1st time I've heard those obs... not sure what to make of them.

[f5]

Well, to end the debate on Katrina, the reanalysis I think has been completed, and the intensity level was changed at all three landfalls (I can't tell you anymore, you have to click the link . Take a look at this site and scroll down to Katrina, look on the rightmost column.

http://lwf.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/research/2005/2005-atlantic-trop-cyclones.html

(PS It's interesting how the reanalysis for Dennis' landfall in Cuba isn't finished yet)

Dennis was 130 knots at maximum intensity and emily was at 110 knots how can that be?

[f5]

How long should the reanlysis take espically Katrina's?

[wxman57]

I have heard of at least one unofficial reading of a 160 mph gust in Laurel. Timnms told me about it but didn't give any other information so I have no idea how it was obtained. Lindaloo in Pascagoula said they had Cat4 winds in that area and she says she is guaging it by the damage, not just what she saw happen. She does know the difference between surge and wind damage too. Some of the pictures and video I have seen tell me there were Cat4 winds along much of the MS Coast. I do have to say that at this point the pictures and video I have seen do not seem to bear out Cat5 winds except possibly in a very small area right at landfall, but I am not sure how much of what I was seeing was surge damage and what was wind damage in those video/pictures. It was very hard to discern, but there were certainly trees snapped en masse and what was left standing was stripped. As was stated, it really doesn't matter what the intensity was at this point because down the road that will all be "officially worked out and reported. What matters now is getting everyone back on their feet.

Well, my mother lives next to Pascagoula and I haven't seen any pictures from there that remotely resemble Cat 4 winds. 135 mph+ winds would completely destroy many homes. I see houses with shingles missing, a few downed trees. Looks like Cat 1 wnds with gusts to Cat 2 in the Pascagoula area. That's what the observations in the area support. Many people can't imagine the force of TRUE 75 mph+ sustained wind.

[dhweather]

When I get home AND get net access, I'll send pictures.

The winds were likely cat 4 with gusts to cat 5. We'll have to see the final report.

[TheShrimper]

Thanks wxman57 for the observation and insight. I have witnessed personally, structures and vegitation that have been subjected to 150+ winds and pictures from the gulf coast, look nothing like the ones taken in Dade County 13 years ago. Granted, I am not there and would be overwhelmed if I was, much like the Andrew scenario was for me in 92. The pictures that I have seen, just dont add up to a devistating wind event.

[Cookiely]

it is very important to determine the exact intensity of this, and Camielle, so that the "Camielle Syndrome" does not happen again, where people thought that because they survived Camielle, that they could easily survive Katrina

So the next storm that comes down the pike, will they say I survived Camille and Katrina so I will ride this one out!!!!!!!!!!!

[f5]

I have heard of at least one unofficial reading of a 160 mph gust in Laurel. Timnms told me about it but didn't give any other information so I have no idea how it was obtained. Lindaloo in Pascagoula said they had Cat4 winds in that area and she says she is guaging it by the damage, not just what she saw happen. She does know the difference between surge and wind damage too. Some of the pictures and video I have seen tell me there were Cat4 winds along much of the MS Coast. I do have to say that at this point the pictures and video I have seen do not seem to bear out Cat5 winds except possibly in a very small area right at landfall, but I am not sure how much of what I was seeing was surge damage and what was wind damage in those video/pictures. It was very hard to discern, but there were certainly trees snapped en masse and what was left standing was stripped. As was stated, it really doesn't matter what the intensity was at this point because down the road that will all be "officially worked out and reported. What matters now is getting everyone back on their feet.

Well, my mother lives next to Pascagoula and I haven't seen any pictures from there that remotely resemble Cat 4 winds. 135 mph+ winds would completely destroy many homes. I see houses with shingles missing, a few downed trees. Looks like Cat 1 wnds with gusts to Cat 2 in the Pascagoula area. That's what the observations in the area support. Many people can't imagine the force of TRUE 75 mph+ sustained wind.

Remember the eye was a ways west of pascagoula

[TheShrimper]

Yeh, about 30 miles, big deal.

[Jim Cantore]

the FL landfall was at least 80

as for cat 5

maybe in SE LA but wind data might be hard to find

[Recurve]

Second what Derek said -- important to establish actual conditions because people often think they went though worse than they did.

I saw Andrew damage up close, some of it was worse than what you think wind alone can do. If uptown and the French Quarter had gotten those winds, those areas wouldn't be relatively OK.

Just from seeing video of Katrina in NOLA and MS, areas close to the eye didn't get as much wind as a Cat 5, maybe not more than Cat 3. Parts of the Garden District and CBD were very close to the western eyewall; even with those shattered windows on the Hyatt, 5-10 stories up, wind damage could have been at lot worse.

And really, doesn't 30 miles from the eye make a heck of a difference? In Andrew, 15 miles made all the difference. Of course Katrina was larger, but still.

So much of the MS damage was obviously battering surge.

[Matt-hurricanewatcher]

Katrina was well on her to rebuilding her self as she was moving in. So who knows how strong she was. Plus how many reports could of been recovered with everyone that would take them dead or the wind gauge blown away.

In Emily top winds for a short time was 153 knots. In which the nhc stated there selfs that she could of been a short lived cat5.


Also the eye did not go over New orleans. So your not going to see much wind damage. But you look to the east you will see alot of cat4 damage.

Take a look at this...
http://ngs.woc.noaa.gov/katrina/

The wind damage alone makes Ivan seem like a cat1. Of course surge was like a tsunumi.

[manofsteele79]

I don't have any official wind speed data, but that wind was #$%&$% relentless from 12:30 - 2:30 in Hattiesburg. I watched roofs fly off, trees crush houses, had a traffic light land in my yard (I don't live near any traffic lights), vehicles totaled from trees, etc. I cut 6 pines out of (not on top of) a friends house and 2 out of another friends master bedroom. I looked like a bomb went off in parts of hattiesburg.

[Javlin]

I think anometers should get checked or recalibrated. Judging from what I have seen via the media, there are too many trees that were left undisturbed and not even defoliated to warrant those proclaimed windspeeds. The damage in MS was primarily a surge event. Business's were destroyed, yet thier flimsy signs remained intact just elevated enough to escape the surge. Knowing where Slidell is, and knowing how large Katrina was, New Orleans should not have a tree standing in the city if Kat was as strong as you claim. I know what Cat. 4 winds do to oak, maple, banyan, cuban laurel trees. They destroy them. They strip them, then they snap them of like twigs. You would not see a leave left on a tree, because there would be no trees left standing. Plus, NO even being below sea level should have seen much more structural damage than what occured. Not buying it.

Well Shrimper tell that to my oldest Oak in the back yard(200yrs+) she now has a 6 foot scabb where a 24" limb came loose.Yes there will be NO FALL this year.Cat 5 probably not but one hell of a Cat 4.I was 9 when Camille came and Katrina was definitily worst in many ways in death and destruction.Houses that where 160yrs old are now gone without a splinter to be found.

[Steve]

Not sure what the power was, but does it really matter? Forget a little compact Cat 5 like Camille or a slightly larger Cat 5 such as Andrew. Neither of them REMOTELY compare with the devastation Katrina has wrought. I've been everywhere from Lockport to Mobile and there is damage all the way across. The surge must have been incredible as there is plenty of water debris on the I-10 in Mississippi. If you know that area, it's WAAAAY inland. I went into South Slidell 2 days after the storm and it was wiped out. My neighborhood in Metairie is still unreachable. I did get to go to my house Saturday morning though. We drove by (had special RN/Medical passes) and drove to the traintracks by Metairie Road. I ran into someone I knew who loaned me their hip boots that I used to wade to my house. Water was still in the streets 2 weeks later and a large 50 year old Pecan Tree was through my roof. Oddly enough, no windows were blown out but the neighborhood (not yet cleared due to the standing water) was beyond a warzone. I was only going to take exterior pictures but since my back door was wide open, I couldn't resist. I went in to see if anyone was sheltering inside or if there were any snakes or alligators. Nothing was in there but water damage and mold. It was unreal. I grabbed my skateboard out of the attic and one of my kids 2 championship soccer patches he asked me to grab. I left everything else and walked out in disgust. There is literally nothing left to salvage though we'll go in there once the smell is bearable and try to get some crystal, jewelry and stuff. I'll be homeless for at least 8 months and hopefully the flood insurance company will total everything so I can just bulldoze my house and start over again.

In the meantime, I'm in Alabama, my kids are in New York and my wife is still working at the hospital in Metairie for a little while but is going to try to get a travel assignment in California. My dog is down in Central Lafourche Parish. But what are you going to do? There are people in far worse shape than I am who have lost everything without insurance even. I stopped into a web cafe' in Mobile just to say hey and thought this would be a good thread to do so. Hope all are well and one day I'll be back online.



Steve

[Javlin]

Yeh, about 30 miles, big deal.

Some how I do not think you ever been through a cane yet.I live in Biloxi(middle) and can drive 8 miles W to HWY49 and you can see the rampping up of the destruction.More and More trees roofs and two story buildings and apartments esp.being riipped too pieces.Those precious miles met to some LIFE or DEATH.