Blanco & the National Guard

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Blanco & the National Guard

#1 Postby stormie_skies » Thu Sep 15, 2005 4:46 pm

While this topic has been touched on in several threads, I think it deserves one of its own. Little seems to be known about when and how Blanco deployed the NG, or whether the apparent inefficiency of the deployment is her responsibility alone or that of a number of things.

Congress appears to be confused as well, according to this article:


By SHARON THEIMER, Associated Press Writer
Sat Sep 3, 6:38 PM ET



WASHINGTON - Another 10,000 National Guard troops are being sent to the hurricane-ravaged Gulf Coast, raising their number to about 40,000, but questions linger about the speed with which troops were deployed.

Several states ready and willing to send National Guard troops to the rescue in New Orleans didn't get the go-ahead until days after the storm struck — a delay nearly certain to be investigated by Congress.

New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson offered Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco help from his state's National Guard last Sunday, the day before Hurricane Katrina hit Louisiana. Blanco accepted, but paperwork needed to get the troops en route didn't come from Washington until late Thursday.

California troops just began arriving in Louisiana on Friday, three days after flood waters devastated New Orleans and chaos broke out.


In fact, when New Orleans' levees gave way to deadly flooding on Tuesday, Louisiana's National Guard had received help from troops in only three other states: Ohio, which had nine people in Louisiana then; Oklahoma, 89; and Texas, 625, figures provided by the National Guard show.

Maj. Gen. Thomas Cutler, who leads the Michigan National Guard, said he anticipated a call for police units and started preparing them, but couldn't go until states in the hurricane zone asked them to come.

"We could have had people on the road Tuesday," Cutler said. "We have to wait and respond to their need."

The Michigan National Guard was asked for military police by Mississippi late Tuesday and by Louisiana officials late Wednesday. The state sent 182 MPs to Mississippi on Friday and had 242 headed to Louisiana on Saturday.

Typically, the authority to use the National Guard in a state role lies with the governor, who tells his or her adjutant general to order individual Guard units to begin duty. Turnaround time varies depending on the number of troops involved, their location and their assigned missions.

One factor that may have further complicated post-Katrina deployment arose when Louisiana discovered it needed Guardsmen to do more law enforcement duty because a large portion of the New Orleans police force was not functioning, according to Lt. Gen. Steven H. Blum, chief of the National Guard Bureau at the Pentagon.

Because the agreement that was already in existence for states to contribute Guard troops to Louisiana did not include a provision on their use in law enforcement, Blum said, Gov. Blanco had to get separate written agreements authorizing Guardsmen to do police-type duty.

Still, Blum said, this took only minutes to execute.

With many states' Guard units depleted by deployments to Iraq, Katrina's aftermath was almost certain from the beginning to require help from faraway states.

Republicans and Democrats alike in Congress are just beginning to ask why one of the National Guard's most trusted roles — disaster relief — was so uneven, delayed and chaotic this time around.

Sen. Chuck Hagel (news, bio, voting record), R-Neb., said the situation has shown major breakdowns in the nation's emergency response capabilities. "There must be some accountability in this process after the crisis is addressed," he said.

Democrat Ben Nelson, Nebraska's other senator, said he now questions National Guard leaders' earlier assertions that they had enough resources to respond to natural disasters even with the Iraq war.

"I'm going to ask that question again," Nelson said. "Do we have enough (troops), and if we do, why were they not deployed sooner?"

President Bush was asked that question Friday as he toured the hurricane-ravaged Gulf Coast area and said he disagrees with criticism the military is stretched too thin.

"We've got a job to defend this country in the war on terror, and we've got a job to bring aid and comfort to the people of the Gulf Coast, and we'll do both," he said.

Senate Armed Services Committee Chairman John Warner, R-Va., plans to make oversight of the Defense Department, the National Guard and their assistance his top priority when he returns to Washington next week from an overseas trips, spokesman John Ullyot said Friday.

Bush had the legal authority to order the National Guard to the disaster area himself, as he did after the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks . But the troops four years ago were deployed for national security protection, and presidents of both parties traditionally defer to governors to deploy their own National Guardsmen and request help from other states when it comes to natural disasters.

In addition to Guard help, the federal government could have activated, but did not, a major air support plan under a pre-existing contract with airlines. The program, called Civilian Reserve Air Fleet, lets the government quickly put private cargo and passenger planes into service.

The CRAF provision has been activated twice, once for the Persian Gulf War and again for the Iraq war.



I found this article interesting for a number of reasons. First of all, it states that Blanco accepted NG troops from New Mexico on Sunday. Wouldn't that have to mean that she had already begun the deployment process, meaning that the time factor may not be as much of an issue?

Clearly, some of the delays must be chalked up to administrative crud. That's a problem, obviously.

Now, if I am reading this right.....Blanco tells her general to order up troops, and he does. OK. So she has to order up each individual unit, correct? If so, then thats a problem for her, because it doesn't look like she ordered enough....although its too early to say until we know how many of these "administrative delays" there were, and what the turnaround time was for the units she ordered.

I know that the NO NG had 50 vehicles flooded and half their equipment destroyed, so I suppose we can excuse them for being late....

Unfortunately, we still don't seem to know just how many units Blanco deployed and how many were available immediately....

Does anyone have any idea???
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#2 Postby mf_dolphin » Thu Sep 15, 2005 5:51 pm

Since she's issued a gag order to her Guard Units I guess we'll have to wait and see during the inquiries. The only report I've seen was one of the State Emergency Managers say he only requested 900 Guardsman initially. he admitted that was a mistake during the interview.
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#3 Postby stormie_skies » Thu Sep 15, 2005 6:24 pm

mf_dolphin wrote:Since she's issued a gag order to her Guard Units I guess we'll have to wait and see during the inquiries. The only report I've seen was one of the State Emergency Managers say he only requested 900 Guardsman initially. he admitted that was a mistake during the interview.


Seriously??? Well, that sure doesn't look good.... I can't imagine she would do that unless she was worried that what she did would get her in trouble...

Is there any way to find out how many units were available in Louisiana, how many were deployed and when? Like a government website or something.....:?:
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#4 Postby Lindaloo » Thu Sep 15, 2005 6:26 pm

She should have NOT had HAD to deploy the National Guard. She should have had them on standby for goodness sakes. Anytime you declare a state of emergency the guard is put on full alert. She did not have her ducks in a row and neither did the mayor of New Orleans.

I know right after the winds died down the National Guard here was out in full force. I saw them. We also had no communications at all not even a 911 system. So SOMEONE sent them out.
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#5 Postby stormie_skies » Thu Sep 15, 2005 6:30 pm

Lindaloo wrote:She should have NOT had HAD to deploy the National Guard. She should have had them on standby for goodness sakes. Anytime you declare a state of emergency the guard is put on full alert. She did not have her ducks in a row and neither did the mayor of New Orleans.

I know right after the winds died down the National Guard here was out in full force. I saw them. We also had no communications at all not even a 911 system. So SOMEONE sent them out.


Yeah, I see your point there. I think she had some of them on standby, but its clear it was a ridiculously small number. Did she really think this thing wasn't gonna be a big deal???

And its clear that no one on any level planned on the law enforcement issues.....
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#6 Postby mf_dolphin » Thu Sep 15, 2005 6:42 pm

The LA Guard has a little over 10,000 men and women. Around 3,200 were deployed to Iraq at the time. From what I remember the initial call up was for 900 guardsmen. Does anyone on this board think that number was anywhere close to realistic?
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#7 Postby vbhoutex » Thu Sep 15, 2005 6:44 pm

stormie_skies wrote:
Lindaloo wrote:She should have NOT had HAD to deploy the National Guard. She should have had them on standby for goodness sakes. Anytime you declare a state of emergency the guard is put on full alert. She did not have her ducks in a row and neither did the mayor of New Orleans.

I know right after the winds died down the National Guard here was out in full force. I saw them. We also had no communications at all not even a 911 system. So SOMEONE sent them out.


Yeah, I see your point there. I think she had some of them on standby, but its clear it was a ridiculously small number. Did she really think this thing wasn't gonna be a big deal???

And its clear that no one on any level planned on the law enforcement issues.....


No one was expecting to have the law enforcement issues initially that arose and no one was expecting the flooding issues initially either, at least not nearly as bad as happened.
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#8 Postby kevin » Thu Sep 15, 2005 7:41 pm

I agree they probably did not expect what happened, but with the civil strife I think they should have expected the things which happened.

I'm sorry but I expected drugless gangsters to cause problems. Hindsight is 20/20, and arm chair quarterbacks never get sacked, but I think the civil strife should have been expected. Anytime you have an absence of power, people always without exception fill that vacuum.
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#9 Postby Lindaloo » Thu Sep 15, 2005 8:02 pm

She should have known it was a big deal. Why? Because the director of the NHC was on the phone telling them that this is the one they have feared for a long time and it was going to be bad. Can anyone verify if the director of the NHC has EVER been on the phone directly to warn a mayor of how bad a hurricane is going to be? Pure negligence is what this is.
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#10 Postby chrisnnavarre » Thu Sep 15, 2005 10:32 pm

The National Response Plan, which was at the Department of Homeland Security Webpage has been removed.

http://www.dhs.gov/interweb/assetlibrary/NRP

And there's a good reason for it too. A review by the Congressional Research Service indicates that neither Bush nor Blanco where the ones responsible for the slow Federal Response.

"These CRS reports were produced by the Congressional Research Service, a branch of the Library of Congress providing nonpartisan research reports to members of the House and Senate."
The report found that:

All necessary conditions for federal relief were met on August 28. Pursuant to Section 502 of the Stafford Act, "[t]he declaration of an emergency by the President makes Federal emergency assistance available," and the President made such a declaration on August 28. The public record indicates that several additional days passed before such assistance was actually made available to the State;

The Governor must make a timely request for such assistance, which meets the requirements of federal law. The report states that "[e]xcept to the extent that an emergency involves primarily Federal interests, both declarations of major disaster and declarations of emergency must be triggered by a request to the President from the Governor of the affected state";

The Governor did indeed make such a request, which was both timely and in compliance with federal law. The report finds that "Governor Kathleen Babineaux Blanco requested by letter dated August 27, 2005...that the President declare an emergency for the State of Louisiana due to Hurricane Katrina for the time period from August 26, 2005 and continuing pursuant to [applicable Federal statute]" and "Governor Blanco's August 27,2005 request for an emergency declaration also included her determination...that 'the incident is of such severity and magnitude that effective response is beyond the capabilities of the State and affected local governments and that supplementary Federal assistance is necessary to save lives, protect property, public health, and safety, or to lessen or avert the threat of disaster."

The full report will be available soon on the House Democrats' Judiciary website."

"Chertoff delayed federal response, memo shows

BY JONATHAN S. LANDAY, ALISON YOUNG AND SHANNON MCCAFFREY

Knight Ridder Newspapers

WASHINGTON - (KRT) - The federal official with the power to mobilize a massive federal response to Hurricane Katrina was Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff, not the former FEMA chief who was relieved of his duties and resigned earlier this week, federal documents reviewed by Knight Ridder show."

Chertoff was responsible plain and simple....

http://www.timesleader.com/mld/timeslea ... 637130.htm

What I still can't understand and needs to be asked is how can both the Governor and President declare MAJOR DISASTERS yet nothing in the government can be moved until a stupid memo is signed by the Director of Homeland Security.

:roll:
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#12 Postby stormie_skies » Fri Sep 16, 2005 10:49 am

Thanks for the links. I will post the relevant parts from a couple of the articles. From US News & World report:

FRIDAY, August 26

At 4 p.m., the latest update from the National Hurricane Center comes into the state's Emergency Operations Center (EOC) in Baton Rouge, suggesting that New Orleans will be directly in the storm's path.

Governor Kathleen Blanco declares a state of emergency, with the National Guard placed on full alert. Earlier that afternoon, the state had activated its Crisis Action Team at Level 3, bringing in a collection of senior leaders from all the affected departments with the power to make split-second decisions about the state'sresources. They begin monitoring the storm's progress around the clock.

Officials hold a conference call with parish leaders throughout southeastern Louisiana to discuss contingencies. Still, it looks like the storm will spare the state the worst.


Okay, so the National Guard was activated. I know there were some questions about that here.....

SATURDAY, August 27

By 7 a.m., the storm looks like it is moving even further west, and the Louisiana National Guard stands up its Joint Operation Center, beginning to coordinate emergency planning with the neighboring states and local parishes. Lt. Col Jacques Thibodeaux, the director of military support to civilian operations for the Louisiana National Guard, had been tracking the storm since Friday. Now, he begins monitoring and planning the evacuation from his position in the Joint Operations Center in Jackson Barracks, a military base straddling New Orleans and St. Bernard Parish.

"We hadn't seen this in 30 years," says Col. William Doran, the operations chief for Louisiana's Office of Homeland Security and Emergency Preparedness. Some 2,000 National Guard troops are activated, from volunteers, to be staged in and around New Orleans. FEMA sends a representative to join the planning team.



So more than 900 guardsmen were staged....thats good. Still clearly not enough, though...

SUNDAY, August 28

Louisiana National Guard troops are sent to the Superdome to establish a "special needs shelter" for evacuees who needed medical attention but couldn't leave the city in time. Thibodeaux realizes that they didn't have enough troops and recommends to his commanders to call up reinforcements. Additional troops are activated and New Orleans begins its evacuation in earnest.


So reinforcements are called for.....which, for obvious reasons, seems like the logical thing to do....

Still, not everyone has the means to leave the city. Thibodeaux estimates that as many as 100,000 to 150,000 people in New Orleans failed to heed the evacuation call. The state designates the Superdome as a special needs shelter, complete with medical care, staging a National Guard contingent of 400 soldiers there for security.


Probably not enough to control that many people, even though they didn't think they would have to control them for more than 48 hours (per FEMA's assurances) and they had the help of law enforcement.... so I dunno....

Thibodeaux begins to plan for post-storm evacuations and search-and-rescue missions, monitoring the resources ready to move into the city once Katrina clears out. In the final conference call before the storm, a FEMA representative assures the parish presidents that resources are pre-staged; they just need 48 to 60 hours to get things out to everybody.


Now, that is important to note, because you have to take these people's mentality into account....the worst of the suffering and outright lawlessness came between Wednesday and Friday....the time in which they had planned on national resources being there, but they werent....
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#13 Postby stormie_skies » Fri Sep 16, 2005 11:10 am

Alright, now for the Air Force Times:

Question: How much faster can full-time troops respond to disasters such as Hurricane Katrina than the National Guard?

Answer: A good example is the Army’s elite 82nd Airborne Division. This unit, headquartered at Fort Bragg, N.C., is capable of dropping troops into action anywhere in the world in less than 20 hours.

It can take National Guard units several days to respond in strength to hurricanes.

The 82nd Airborne is now helping with humanitarian aid in the Gulf Coast region, steering clear of any police activity.

There are about 20,000 active duty troops in the Gulf Coast region now, serving alongside 50,000 National Guard forces.



Well, this certainly accounts for some of the slow response on the state level.... according to the article before this, reinforcements were first called for 24 hours before the storm started....if it still takes several days for people to actually start showing up.....

Q: As New Orleans flooded and slipped into anarchy, Katrina victims were pleading for more security. Why couldn’t federal troops come to their rescue?

A: Federal troops are legally constrained in what they can do domestically by the Posse Comitatus Act. Passed in 1878 to limit the use of federal troops to control Southern polling places, Posse Comitatus makes it a crime to employ “any part of the Army ...to execute the laws.” It does not apply to the Coast Guard.

Q: Can the restrictions against using federal troops for domestic enforcement be suspended in time of emergency?

A: Two laws allow this.

The president can invoke the Insurrection Act dating back to 1795, which permits the military use of federal troops on U.S. soil to put down violence that local authorities are incapable of handling.

Under the National Defense Act of 1916, the president can federalize a state’s National Guard troops in an effort to centralize control over a chaotic situation. Bush suggested “federalizing” Louisiana’s Guard forces when the chaos in New Orleans began escalating, but Gov. Kathleen Blanco objected.


I'm not so sure about this, because the Department of Homeland Security Act states otherwise. According to that Act, the President should have had the ability to call in the active military for keeping the peace as soon as he invoked Stafford....

As for the issue of federalizing the NG, was that even an issue before Thursday or Friday? That was the first I had heard of it.

I know that Gen. Honore said on CNN that he didn't need or particularly want the NG federalized....but I need to find a transcript or something for that....

A: Invoking rarely used measures can be difficult, time-consuming and potentially controversial.

In the case of Louisiana, a Republican president would be taking control from a Democratic governor. The Bush administration debated this and decided against it, according to reports about the dialogue between Washington and Baton Rouge.

Automatic mechanisms that permit, or even obligate, a powerful federal military response to a major disaster could save time by eliminating politics and indecision.



When lives are on the line, there should be no room for "politics and indecision", IMHO.

As far as the other articles go......are we allowed to post links to partisan political sites and opinion columns on this board? Every other article that had a link was either from a political site or blog or linked to an opinion page. If everyone starts linking to their favorite blogger or activist group or whatever, I am afraid this topic (and others) will turn into flame wars pretty quickly.

In any case.....I'm not really looking for opinions here, of any political persuasion.....I really do want the facts, hard numbers when possible. Spin just keeps getting in the way of things.... :double:
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#14 Postby stormie_skies » Fri Sep 16, 2005 11:23 am

OK, this is from Yahoo News....http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050910/ap_on_re_us/katrina_national_guard

About 41,000 Guard members are scattered across Alabama, Mississippi and Louisiana, along with 17,000 active-duty troops. About 30,000 Guard members are serving in Iraq, with smaller numbers in Afghanistan, Kosovo and elsewhere overseas.


So now we have totals for the area, though I wish it broke it down by state. Its a start, though.

The head of the National Guard Bureau said Friday the assignment of thousands of Guard troops from Mississippi and Louisiana to Iraq delayed those states' initial hurricane response by about a day.

"Had that brigade been at home and not in Iraq, their expertise and capabilities could have been brought to bear," said Lt. Gen. Steven Blum, the bureau's chief.

However, Blum said that overall, the Iraq assignment is not limiting the military's ability to continue the rescue and recovery operations.



Okay....so the AFT says that it can, under normal circumstances, take several days for NG troops to respond en masse to a natural disaster. Apparently the NG is saying that Iraq cost them one more day. So exactly how much advance notice is required to get NG troops where you need them at this point? If it takes the NG 3 days or 4 days to respond, aren't they kind of ineffectual overall???
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#15 Postby stormie_skies » Fri Sep 16, 2005 11:52 am

Bingo! I think I hit paydirt..... :lol:

This from the AP, via Yahoo News....source was the National Guard Bureau:

A day-by-day look at when National Guard troops from around the country arrived in Louisiana and Mississippi, the two states hit hardest by Hurricane Katrina:

ADVERTISEMENT

TUESDAY, Aug. 30:

In Louisiana:

• 4,725, all from Louisiana

In Mississippi:

• 2,747, all from Mississippi

WEDNESDAY, Aug. 31:

In Louisiana:

• Ohio: nine

• Oklahoma: 89

• Texas: 625

In Mississippi:

Arkansas: 350

Delaware : 68

Florida: 350

Maryland: 130

THURSDAY, Sept. 1:

In Louisiana:

Arkansas: 446

Colorado: 4

Kansas: 12

Missouri: 40

Nevada: 12

Ohio: 210

Oklahoma: 283

Texas: 972

In Mississippi:

Alabama: 1,500

Ohio: 42

West Virginia: 3

FRIDAY, Sept. 2:

In Louisiana:

Alabama: 300

California: 517

Washington, DC: 100

Kansas: 87

Massachusetts: 100

Maryland: 65

Missouri: 10

North Carolina: 300

New Hampshire: 62

New Mexico: 250

Nevada: 92

Oklahoma: 210

Oregon: 100

Pennsylvania: 200

Puerto Rico: 60

Rhode Island: 150

Tennessee: 326

Vermont: 25

In Mississippi:

Delaware: 52

Georgia: 12

Indiana: 47

Ohio: 1200

SATURDAY, Sept. 3 (origins of Guard troops unavailable):

In Louisiana:

3,500

In Mississippi:

2,500

__

Source: National Guard Bureau


http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050903/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/katrina_guard_glance_1

So according to the NG numbers, Louisiana consistantly deployed as many or more NG troops than Mississippi, which seems to be a lot of people's benchmark. The initial deployment in Louisiana was almost double. So it seems to me, at least from Tuesday onward, that Louisiana was calling a reasonable number of NG troops.

We know that the pre-storm deployment in Louisiana started around 2k, and additional soldiers were called for before the storm.

Does anyone know what the pre-storm deployment was in Mississippi???
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#16 Postby stormie_skies » Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:19 pm

This article from TIME (http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/09/12/katrina.governor.tm/index.html?section=cnn_latest) discusses the state's shortcomings in general (there are also pieces on the mayor and the feds, I don't know if they link), but there are a few bits regarding the NG:

Beginning the previous Friday, when the forecasts still had it that the hurricane was more likely to hit the Florida Panhandle, the Governor had followed her responsibilities under the state's disaster plan to the letter. She proclaimed a state of emergency; put the National Guard on alert; arranged to have traffic patterns on outgoing roadways reconfigured; made sure the parishes that were not at risk would have shelters and supplies for people from the ones that were.


More corroboration that the NG was on alert well before the storm hit...

Here is some insight into the issue of federalizing the NG:

Further tangling the post-Katrina disaster effort was a struggle for power. On the Friday after the hurricane, as the Governor met with Bush aboard Air Force One on the tarmac of the New Orleans airport, the President broached a sensitive question: Would Blanco relinquish control of local law enforcement and the 13,268 National Guard troops from 29 states that fall under her command?

State officials say Blanco considered it an odd move, given that federal control would not in itself mean any additional troops and would prohibit the guard under the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878 from acting as policemen. And she thought the request had a political motive. It would allow Washington to come in and claim credit for a relief operation that was finally beginning to show progress.

Dan Bartlett, counselor to the President, denied anything as unseemly as politics was behind the move.

"The same discussions" were under way with Republican Governor Haley Barbour of hurricane-ravaged Mississippi, he told Newhouse News Service. However, Barbour's press secretary Pete Smith told TIME that "no such request" was made of the Mississippi Governor. (Bartlett says Barbour's office made it clear early on they did not want to relinquish authority.)

Blanco asked for 24 hours to consider it, but as she was meeting at midnight that Friday night with advisers, Card called and told her to look for a fax. It was a letter and memorandum of understanding under which she would turn over control of her troops. Blanco refused to sign it.


Important things to note:

Bush didn't ask to federalize the NG until Friday....which seems odd to me, because there were active duty troops already on the ground at that point. What good would it have done? Does anyone know?

There were 13,268 total National Guardsmen in Louisiana by Friday.

Apparently Blanco believed that federalizing the NG would result in them being held to posse comitatus. Why on earth are the laws concerning that issue so darn confusing???

Gov. Barbour was likely also requested to turn over his NG troops, and he declined also (the matter of the offer is, apparently, disputed by Barbour's office).

Interesting stuff.
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#17 Postby kometes » Fri Sep 16, 2005 8:00 pm

mf_dolphin wrote:Since she's issued a gag order to her Guard Units I guess we'll have to wait and see during the inquiries.


Do you have a link for this?
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#18 Postby mf_dolphin » Fri Sep 16, 2005 9:04 pm

It's been widely reported. Here's the O'reily show where they talked about it for one.

http://asjewelers.com/FRstuff/Katrina/NG_Gag_Order.wmv
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