Max surge in Cat 5 on Miami Beach is 10 feet?

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logybogy

Max surge in Cat 5 on Miami Beach is 10 feet?

#1 Postby logybogy » Sun Sep 18, 2005 1:24 pm

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/12672922.htm

There's an interesting article in the Miami Herald today about if the big one a Cat 4 or Cat 5 plowed directly into Downtown Miami.

There is some good news. Deep waters right off Miami Beach would likely absorb surging waters and limit on-shore surge to 10 feet, according to researchers at the hurricane center. But surge from shallow Biscayne Bay could top 18 feet south of there.
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#2 Postby Recurve » Sun Sep 18, 2005 1:32 pm

And always remember, suge is just the base rise in sea level. You could have 15 feet (25 ft even?) of waves on top of that rolling onto the beach. Large structures close to the water could be undermined.
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Derek Ortt

#3 Postby Derek Ortt » Sun Sep 18, 2005 1:33 pm

surge would be lower, but waves would be about 50 feet
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#4 Postby Recurve » Sun Sep 18, 2005 1:38 pm

YOW!

Thanks for the clarification Derek.
People don't realize that the surge becomes the new sea level, then hurricane winds blow that into very large waves, if I understand it right.
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#5 Postby inotherwords » Sun Sep 18, 2005 1:39 pm

Derek Ortt wrote:surge would be lower, but waves would be about 50 feet


Wow :eek:

Why is that? Because of the depth of the water offshore?

I wish I could see some sort of computer animation that would show what this would do. How far the water would come inland, what depth, etc.
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#6 Postby logybogy » Sun Sep 18, 2005 1:41 pm

The Herald also had a companion piece about the surge in Broward County.

It would only be 8 feet in Broward County, even in a Category 5 Hurricane.

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/12667537.htm

Storm surge, the most feared killer in a hurricane, should be much smaller in South Florida than it was in the Gulf.

Hurricane Katrina pushed a mountain of water more than 20 feet high ashore along parts of the Gulf Coast Aug. 29. Here, due to deep coastal waters off Broward and most of Miami-Dade, surging waters have someplace else to go instead of relentlessly forward onto land.

''Pure storm surge is likely not to exceed eight feet along the Broward coastline in even a Category 5,'' said Dr. Stephen Baig, chief of the storm surge research unit at the National Hurricane Center.

The bad news, Baig said, is the storm-whipped wave action that would occur on the temporary ocean that will rise rapidly in the coastal evacuation zones in both counties.

''For six to eight hours, you'll have wind-driven waves impacting structures that were never designed or intended to withstand such impacts,'' said Baig, who dislikes the commonly used ''wall of water'' metaphor for storm surge.

Broward is above sea level, so flooding here won't be nearly as bad as in New Orleans. Broward's flood maps indicate much of the county may be inundated in a hurricane, but water managers will lower canal levels in advance of a storm to accommodate more runoff. Who gets hit the hardest will depend largely on specific elevation and the angle of the hurricane if it makes landfall, officials say.

Unlike the levees in New Orleans, the levee system that separates the Everglades from the developed parts of the county is sound, according to officials with the South Florida Water Management District and the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers. Even if a breach were to occur, they say, water levels in western Broward and Miami-Dade would never become life-threatening because water levels there are too low.

Huge pumps also stand ready to remove excess water into the Everglades conservation zones.

Still, a hurricane that can drop 15 inches of rain in six hours, as Katrina did in some spots last month across South Florida, would overwhelm the system and leave low lying areas under perhaps three or four feet of water.

''I may get in trouble for saying this, but there are some places where they should never have allowed people to build,'' said Fred Remen, the water management district's director of field operations.

``There's no system that can get rid of water that quickly. In low-lying areas, you are going to flood.''

The 70-year-old, leaky 25-foot dike surrounding Lake Okeechobee could aggravate Broward's water woes. A serious breach would put thousands of nearby residents in places like Belle Glade in Palm Beach County in mortal danger. But in Broward, draining waters would only exacerbate flooding.
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#7 Postby Dmetal81 » Sun Sep 18, 2005 1:41 pm

inotherwords wrote:
Derek Ortt wrote:surge would be lower, but waves would be about 50 feet


Wow :eek:

Why is that? Because of the depth of the water offshore?

I wish I could see some sort of computer animation that would show what this would do. How far the water would come inland, what depth, etc.


I think thats the exact reason the waves would remain so large, while deeper water counters the surge, it allows you to get the kind of waves that you get ... well.. in deep water. Notice in Katrina, wave estimates were 45-55ft in the deeper waters. Im sure (and this IS a hypothetical event, not a forecast) if a CAT 4 or 5 hit downtown miami, that while the surge would be mitigated some, the wave size would only be mitigated some as well.... can you imagine 35 ft waves hitting those hi rise condos? :eek:
Last edited by Dmetal81 on Sun Sep 18, 2005 1:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#8 Postby Recurve » Sun Sep 18, 2005 1:41 pm

Inotherwords -- someone posted a NOAA link that had exactly what you say. I was able to see on my street in Key Largo where the expected surge would go. I am sorry I can't find the link now. I'm pretty sure it was a NOAA or FEMA surge mapping tool.
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