Immediate search and rescue in mandatory evacuation zones?
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Immediate search and rescue in mandatory evacuation zones?
Should we?
If people were told to get out, offered transportation out (I know Naples
had busing and other transportation to get folks to shelter), and did not
get out, and CHOSE to stay behind, should we really put a great effort
into sending our first responders in and risking their own lives to
rescue these people?
This is something that must be addressed this winter. New Orleans,
the Keys, who is next? Search and Rescue operations are very
expensive, and that's ultimately our tax dollars.
If people were told to get out, offered transportation out (I know Naples
had busing and other transportation to get folks to shelter), and did not
get out, and CHOSE to stay behind, should we really put a great effort
into sending our first responders in and risking their own lives to
rescue these people?
This is something that must be addressed this winter. New Orleans,
the Keys, who is next? Search and Rescue operations are very
expensive, and that's ultimately our tax dollars.
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- CharleySurvivor
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- LSU2001
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I tend to agree dh, but you know that the political firestorm that would result from leaving the fools to perish would be horrific. I cannot see our govt. as having the political will to ignore stranded people even if they were warned, offered transportation, and even told of the consequences. I believe that people would be rescued even if they have no reason for being in the prediciment in the first place. I think what needs to happen is that people need to understand that the price of living on the coast is that life will be interruped by evacs and that is simply part of life. If they cannot accept evacs then they don't need to live on the coast.
Tim
Tim
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- LSU2001
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CharleySurvivor wrote:We all make bad judgements...we're 'humans'.
Yes we do and most of the time we have to live with the consequences. In the case of Natural Disasters we want to make bad decisions and have others risk life and limb to save our a@@es.
Tim
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Personal Forecast Disclaimer:
The posts in this forum are NOT official forecast and should not be used as such. They are NOT endorsed by any professional institution or storm2k.org. For official information, please refer to the NHC and NWS products.
The posts in this forum are NOT official forecast and should not be used as such. They are NOT endorsed by any professional institution or storm2k.org. For official information, please refer to the NHC and NWS products.
- Downdraft
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While it would be nice to say people should be held not only responsible but accountable for their own actions the fact is it's not going to happen. I'll always remember Harry Truman whose home was on the side of Mt Saint Helens. Urged over and over to evacuate he flatly declared he'd live on the side of the mountain all his life and if the mountain wanted to kill him the mountain was going to kill him. A couple of days later he was buried under 200 feet of boiling hot mud. At least Harry accepted responsibility for his own actions.
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- drudd1
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gtalum wrote:We don't leave people to die when we have the means to help them. We're Americans and we're better than that.
Excellent post gtalum!
The fact of the matter is, everyone, and yes I mean everyone, will make many mistakes in their lives. With luck, none will result in serious injury or mishap, but sadly, some will. If we choose not to help someone who was silly enough not to evacuate prior to a hurricane making landfall, because the decision was stupid; then are we also going to stop responding with ambulances and helos for the tragic traffic accident that was caused by a driver taking their attention from the road for, say the screaming child or cell phone, which we also know is stupid? No way! A decision like this would be tantamount to sentencing a person to death for being stupid. How about we leave that punishment for a capital crime such as murder, rape, child molestation, and such, and not be quite so rough with the ones making poor decisions. After all, at some point in our lives each of us will be in this group.
For each and every person on this board, it will be sheer luck if a lapse of judgment, mistake, or plain "brain fart" does not require at some point in our lives the aide of someone else to help fix our goof. Hopefully, your goof won't require serious intervention, but in the event it does, I hope the responder does not have the attitude I see coming out in this thread. If so, you are out of luck!
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Nice discussion folks.
I still think we need some form of accountability for people that are ABLE
to evacuate but REFUSE to evacuate.
Just from a business case, the US has invested a fortune in training
first responders. Why should they go out immediately after a hurricane
for folks that refused to leave? Let them sit a day or two, it won't kill
them. Hell, people sat on their roof in New Orleans for 4-6 days.
Again, hurrcanes are like terrorist attacks in one aspect - you only
have to be wrong once and you may very well die. Fortunately, we
have MUCH better intelligence for hurricanes, plenty of time to prepare,
and know the consequences.
I still think we need some form of accountability for people that are ABLE
to evacuate but REFUSE to evacuate.
Just from a business case, the US has invested a fortune in training
first responders. Why should they go out immediately after a hurricane
for folks that refused to leave? Let them sit a day or two, it won't kill
them. Hell, people sat on their roof in New Orleans for 4-6 days.
Again, hurrcanes are like terrorist attacks in one aspect - you only
have to be wrong once and you may very well die. Fortunately, we
have MUCH better intelligence for hurricanes, plenty of time to prepare,
and know the consequences.
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Yes, we need to help them..
Because, everyone makes mistakes.
If only to hold them up, and allow them to serve as examples of failure, survival and hope.
Most everyone deserves a second chance.
I think the damage to the Keys may also convert a few "non-believers" into leaving when told o do so.
Because, everyone makes mistakes.
If only to hold them up, and allow them to serve as examples of failure, survival and hope.
Most everyone deserves a second chance.
I think the damage to the Keys may also convert a few "non-believers" into leaving when told o do so.
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dhweather wrote:Nice discussion folks.
I still think we need some form of accountability for people that are ABLE
to evacuate but REFUSE to evacuate.
Just from a business case, the US has invested a fortune in training
first responders. Why should they go out immediately after a hurricane
for folks that refused to leave? Let them sit a day or two, it won't kill
them. Hell, people sat on their roof in New Orleans for 4-6 days.
Again, hurrcanes are like terrorist attacks in one aspect - you only
have to be wrong once and you may very well die. Fortunately, we
have MUCH better intelligence for hurricanes, plenty of time to prepare,
and know the consequences.
What?!?!
That is unbelievable; see my above post where I say "Just because they're idiots doesn't mean they don't deserve to be rescued." If this were one of your aunts or uncles, etc. would you want to 'let them sit a day or two?'
Oh and by the way, those people that were stuck on their roofs in New Orleans will likely be enduring major psychological repercussions from that for the rest of their lives.
Wow...
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We, as a government, spend endless millions to maintain the health of millions of prisoners in our prison system... many who have committed haneous crimes. There are certainly many other cost-saving measures to be considered... not saving the lives of people who made a bad, and perhaps uneducated decision should not be one of them.
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- dougjp
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A good discussion, but aren't we skirting the core issue? The words "mandatory evacuation". As it stands now, it isn't! Now what part of those words doesn't a society understand? And when dealing with mother nature why is anyone allowed to have any option in this! Civil liberties, forget it when a hurricane is coming. 100% have to go, no questions, no delays. Take a clue from countries who are adept at dealing with approaching storms and realize the status quo is not working. How much proof do we need?
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I say, go and get them if you can do so without causing further damage to other peoples property and when the risk is minimal for the responders. When Rita's storm surge flooded the area I live in, the rescuers flooded my house when they passed by in huge deuce and a half army trucks, throwing huge wakes.............BTW, the people being rescued were stranded, not dying.
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- HurryKane
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dhweather wrote:Nice discussion folks.
I still think we need some form of accountability for people that are ABLE
to evacuate but REFUSE to evacuate.
Just from a business case, the US has invested a fortune in training
first responders. Why should they go out immediately after a hurricane
for folks that refused to leave? Let them sit a day or two, it won't kill
them. Hell, people sat on their roof in New Orleans for 4-6 days.
Again, hurrcanes are like terrorist attacks in one aspect - you only
have to be wrong once and you may very well die. Fortunately, we
have MUCH better intelligence for hurricanes, plenty of time to prepare,
and know the consequences.
Ouch. I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one, bud. How are you going to determine which ones refused to leave, and which ones couldn't? Maybe they didn't know about it (it's plausible), maybe they aren't familiar with the danger that a hurricane of a certain strength brings because they are new to the area/don't watch the weather/etc. How do you know that the ones who stayed aren't without life-saving dialysis, medications, oxygen, what have you, and that those two days could mean the difference between life and death?
I would never be able to sit back and watch someone suffer when the means to help them is there, just because they made a mistake. You'd move heaven and earth to help Pootus no matter what she does, and all people deserve the same benefit of the doubt and help that you feel those close to you do.
Except you know, dummies who hang out in swamps.

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- weathermom
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T-man wrote:BTW, the people being rescued were stranded, not dying.
I think that is the difference. I think if you choose to stay you need to be prepared to be STRANDED. Whether it be from water, trees down, downed power lines etc. You need to be prepared to stay for quite a while WITHOUT HELP until it is safe. It is not reasonable to expect the gov't to come bail you out, at the personal risk of the responders because you didn't do what you were told.
Yes, if it is your family stranded you want to see them rescued. But you have to keep in mind that the rescuers are also someones family, and they are putting their lives at risk to help people who CHOSE to stay.
What is the point of a Mandatory Evacuation if it is actually voluntary?
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It has been explained to us folks here that when a mandatory evac is called, it means that you are strongly urged to leave the area. No emergency services will be available during the event, and if you stay, you need to understand that you are on your own for the duration of the event. Makes sense even to those of us who "hang out in the swamp"
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