The Great 1899 Arctic Outbreak

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#21 Postby f5 » Sun Dec 11, 2005 4:08 pm

Extremeweatherguy wrote:Joe Bastardi is predicting a major arctic outbreak beginning this next weekend (the weekend of the 17th) and heading into next week (the week of the 19th). He said a significant snow/ice storm could reach SOUTH Texas and as far east as mobile. He said it could rival the storm last christmas. He also mentioned a "deep freeze" for areas east of the rockies. If he is right, then we may be in for some interesting weather come the next week or two. Could it rival 1899? Unlikely...1989? Possibly...I guess we won't know until it happens.


the only way it can rival is 1899 is unless its the HIGH is below 32 in Miami(29 back in 1899),there is ice pack in galveston bay,also how often is it you see floating ice on the mississippi in NO.like i said there will always be arctic outbreaks but none appear to be like 1899
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#22 Postby Extremeweatherguy » Sun Dec 11, 2005 5:04 pm

f5 wrote:
Extremeweatherguy wrote:Joe Bastardi is predicting a major arctic outbreak beginning this next weekend (the weekend of the 17th) and heading into next week (the week of the 19th). He said a significant snow/ice storm could reach SOUTH Texas and as far east as mobile. He said it could rival the storm last christmas. He also mentioned a "deep freeze" for areas east of the rockies. If he is right, then we may be in for some interesting weather come the next week or two. Could it rival 1899? Unlikely...1989? Possibly...I guess we won't know until it happens.


the only way it can rival is 1899 is unless its the HIGH is below 32 in Miami(29 back in 1899),there is ice pack in galveston bay,also how often is it you see floating ice on the mississippi in NO.like i said there will always be arctic outbreaks but none appear to be like 1899


Yes, that is why I said "could it rival 1899? Unlikely..", but 1989 would not be out of the realm of possibility. It would truely be amazing to see it not get above 32 in Miami, but I don't think we have to worry about something like that for this upcoming event.
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#23 Postby f5 » Sun Dec 11, 2005 6:41 pm

back in 1977 it snowed in Homestead!!Yes i said Homestead .i wasn't around yet but some of the older folks on this thread can.what i read so far the mid to late 1970s were brutal winters.in fact in Chicago it snowed so much the incumbent mayor lost beacuse of the way he was handling snow removal.Who would of thought something beyond man's control would influence an election?
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#24 Postby Brent » Sun Dec 11, 2005 6:46 pm

I doubt VERY seriously we'll be alive to see a repeat of 1899... and quite frankly, I hope we don't. It would absolutely destroy the economy.
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#25 Postby Brent » Sun Dec 11, 2005 6:48 pm

f5 wrote:back in 1977 it snowed in Homestead!!Yes i said Homestead .i wasn't around yet but some of the older folks on this thread can.what i read so far the mid to late 1970s were brutal winters.in fact in Chicago it snowed so much the incumbent mayor lost beacuse of the way he was handling snow removal.Who would of thought something beyond man's control would influence an election?


The Winter of 1977-1978 is the one in question. EIGHTEEN winter storms hit Illinois that winter(that is not limited to just snow but also ice). The average is 5.
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#26 Postby JenyEliza » Sun Dec 11, 2005 7:44 pm

Brent wrote:
f5 wrote:back in 1977 it snowed in Homestead!!Yes i said Homestead .i wasn't around yet but some of the older folks on this thread can.what i read so far the mid to late 1970s were brutal winters.in fact in Chicago it snowed so much the incumbent mayor lost beacuse of the way he was handling snow removal.Who would of thought something beyond man's control would influence an election?


The Winter of 1977-1978 is the one in question. EIGHTEEN winter storms hit Illinois that winter(that is not limited to just snow but also ice). The average is 5.


I remember that winter! Brrr.

Even had a good bit of snow in GA that winter (as I recall--I was a freshman in high school).

:jacket:
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#27 Postby JenyEliza » Sun Dec 11, 2005 7:48 pm

f5 wrote:back in 1977 it snowed in Homestead!!Yes i said Homestead .i wasn't around yet but some of the older folks on this thread can.what i read so far the mid to late 1970s were brutal winters.in fact in Chicago it snowed so much the incumbent mayor lost beacuse of the way he was handling snow removal.Who would of thought something beyond man's control would influence an election?


The mayor of Chicago did a northern, winter time version of Ray Nagin.

People were peeved....they were housebound and couldn't leave their homes for long periods because the roads weren't cleared in a timely fashion.

The mayor knew in advance the storm(s) were coming (like Nagin), but didn't prepare in properly....no crews on standby, etc. The voters took their frustration out on the mayor. Rightfully so, I think.

Jen
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#28 Postby f5 » Sun Dec 11, 2005 10:15 pm

JenyEliza wrote:
f5 wrote:back in 1977 it snowed in Homestead!!Yes i said Homestead .i wasn't around yet but some of the older folks on this thread can.what i read so far the mid to late 1970s were brutal winters.in fact in Chicago it snowed so much the incumbent mayor lost beacuse of the way he was handling snow removal.Who would of thought something beyond man's control would influence an election?


The mayor of Chicago did a northern, winter time version of Ray Nagin.

People were peeved....they were housebound and couldn't leave their homes for long periods because the roads weren't cleared in a timely fashion.

The mayor knew in advance the storm(s) were coming (like Nagin), but didn't prepare in properly....no crews on standby, etc. The voters took their frustration out on the mayor. Rightfully so, I think.

Jen


whats even more amazing is that the mayor's opponent was part of the same political party.so much for party loyalty.he probably blamed the meterologist 5 day forecast for his defeat
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#29 Postby JenyEliza » Sun Dec 11, 2005 10:20 pm

f5 wrote:
JenyEliza wrote:
f5 wrote:back in 1977 it snowed in Homestead!!Yes i said Homestead .i wasn't around yet but some of the older folks on this thread can.what i read so far the mid to late 1970s were brutal winters.in fact in Chicago it snowed so much the incumbent mayor lost beacuse of the way he was handling snow removal.Who would of thought something beyond man's control would influence an election?


The mayor of Chicago did a northern, winter time version of Ray Nagin.

People were peeved....they were housebound and couldn't leave their homes for long periods because the roads weren't cleared in a timely fashion.

The mayor knew in advance the storm(s) were coming (like Nagin), but didn't prepare in properly....no crews on standby, etc. The voters took their frustration out on the mayor. Rightfully so, I think.

Jen


whats even more amazing is that the mayor's opponent was part of the same political party.so much for party loyalty.he probably blamed the meterologist 5 day forecast for his defeat


Politics in Chicago back in the '70s was a whole different thing to the politics of now. ;)

Jen
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#30 Postby Burn1 » Sun Dec 11, 2005 10:54 pm

Jan 19, 1977 I was in 8th grade living in Fort Lauderdale.....Walking to school that morning at around 8am it began to snow.....It was amazing, and amazingly cold for S. FL..
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Re: The Great 1899 Arctic Outbreak

#31 Postby donsutherland1 » Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:20 pm

Two good sources of information on this historic Arctic outbreak:

Montly Weather Review
National Climatic Data Center
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#32 Postby f5 » Mon Dec 12, 2005 6:11 pm

i bet people act like its the end of civilization when it starts snowing in south flordia
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#33 Postby richtrav » Mon Dec 12, 2005 8:39 pm

I really doubt next weekend will approach the massive outbreak of 1989, and I haven't heard any weatherperson forecasting anything that disastrous. Now a little bit colder than last week's outbreak I could see. Even that freeze was pretty tame compared to any of about 5-6 freezes was had in the 1980s or 1996.

And one note, as cold as 1899 was, Miami almost surely did not have a high of 29 that day the freeze came in, they didn't even have records from Miami back then. Now they did have LOWS of about 28-29 around Jupiter during that freeze.
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#34 Postby Burn1 » Mon Dec 12, 2005 9:12 pm

Wrong.....Observations were recorded in Miami back then.....Miami on
Feb 14th 1899 had a high temp of 29 degrees....The only sub freezing high recorded for the city.

Now lets just say records and information were primitive for the time so even if it didn't hit 40 that is one cold high for S FL
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#35 Postby richtrav » Mon Dec 12, 2005 11:30 pm

Burn

Where is that mentioned? I would love to see the info for Miami and the general temperatures that month for Florida (or Texas) but don't have access to any of it. It's not in the NWS Florida Summary for Feb 1899, which other than a few books is all I have access to. Is it in a newspaper article? It would be truly remarkable if it could be verified
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#36 Postby Burn1 » Tue Dec 13, 2005 12:08 am

Great Blizzard of 1899
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The Great Blizzard of 1899 was a winter weather event unprecendented in American history. What made it historic was both the severity of winter weather and the extent of the U.S. it affected, especially in the South. The only event since that has been remotely similar was the 1993 "Storm of the Century", however that storm and its effects were less severe (though by no means less surprising) because it occurred at a warmer time of the year in mid-March instead of mid-February.

[edit]
Arctic cold
The event started out on February 11 as a severe arctic outbreak in which every part of the East Coast from Georgia to Maine received sub-zero Fahrenheit temperatures. The following state record low temperatures for February were achieved:

Tallahassee, Florida: −2 °F (−19 °C) (the only sub-zero Fahrenheit reading in Florida to this day)

Diamond, Georgia: −12 °F (−24 °C)

Sandy Hook, Kentucky: −33 °F (−36 °C)

Minden, Louisiana: −16 °F (−27 °C)

Fort Logan, Montana: −61 °F (−51 °C)

Camp Clark, Nebraska: −47 °F (−44 °C)

Milligan, Ohio: −39 °F (−39 °C)

Lawrenceville, Pennsylvania: −39 °F (−39 °C)

Santuc, South Carolina: −11 °F (−24 °C)

Erasmus, Tennessee: −30 °F (−34 °C)

Monterey, Virginia: −29 °F (−34 °C) (all time state low until 1985)

Dayton, West Virginia: −35 °F (−37 °C)

Washington, D.C.: −15 °F (−26 °C) (still the all time low temperature within the District of Columbia, though a −18 °F (−28 °C) reading was achieved at Dulles Airport (which usually has low temperatures a few degrees colder than the city itself) in January, 1984)

[edit]
Winter weather
The port of New Orleans, Louisiana was completely iced over by February 13.

On February 14, the high temperature in Miami, Florida was 29 °F (−2 °C), the coldest (and only sub-freezing) high that the city has ever recorded.

On February 12, snow started falling from Fort Myers and Tampa in Florida west towards New Orleans. The storm crossed the Florida peninsula and intensified as it rapidly moved up the East Coast. Washington, D.C. recorded its all-time record single snowfall of 34 inches (86 cm). Cape May, New Jersey also recorded 34 inches (86 cm), which is the highest single day snowfall total ever in New Jersey (ironically in what is normally the least snowiest part of the state).

North of the Mid-Atlantic region, the storm weakened somewhat, but it was still a very powerful blizzard. New York City's Central Park recorded 16 inches (41 cm) (which at the time was its 3rd biggest snowfall), but many surrounding areas recorded 2-3 feet (60 to 90 cm), as did most of New England.

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Blizzard_of_1899"
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#37 Postby Brent » Tue Dec 13, 2005 12:12 am

Burn1 wrote:
Tallahassee, Florida: −2 °F (−19 °C) (the only sub-zero Fahrenheit reading in Florida to this day)

Diamond, Georgia: −12 °F (−24 °C)

Sandy Hook, Kentucky: −33 °F (−36 °C)

Minden, Louisiana: −16 °F (−27 °C)

Fort Logan, Montana: −61 °F (−51 °C)

Camp Clark, Nebraska: −47 °F (−44 °C)

Milligan, Ohio: −39 °F (−39 °C)

Lawrenceville, Pennsylvania: −39 °F (−39 °C)

Santuc, South Carolina: −11 °F (−24 °C)

Erasmus, Tennessee: −30 °F (−34 °C)

Monterey, Virginia: −29 °F (−34 °C) (all time state low until 1985)

Dayton, West Virginia: −35 °F (−37 °C)

Washington, D.C.: −15 °F (−26 °C) (still the all time low temperature within the District of Columbia, though a −18 °F (−28 °C) reading was achieved at Dulles Airport (which usually has low temperatures a few degrees colder than the city itself) in January, 1984)


:cold: :jacket: :froze:

No thank you... :eek: 30 and snow is so much more pleasant and bearable. :lol:
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#38 Postby southerngale » Tue Dec 13, 2005 1:20 am

richtrav wrote:Burn

Where is that mentioned? I would love to see the info for Miami and the general temperatures that month for Florida (or Texas) but don't have access to any of it. It's not in the NWS Florida Summary for Feb 1899, which other than a few books is all I have access to. Is it in a newspaper article? It would be truly remarkable if it could be verified


You might find something in here too.

donsutherland1 wrote:Two good sources of information on this historic Arctic outbreak:

Montly Weather Review
National Climatic Data Center
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#39 Postby richtrav » Tue Dec 13, 2005 9:07 pm

Hmm, well yes it does say that in about Miami in Wikipedia, can anyone verify it somewhere else?

I noticed they played kind of loose with the facts about last year's Christmas snow in South Texas (the last time it had snowed in Brownsville was 1894 not 1899), granted they are minor nitpicky errors but it's enough to make me question whether such a bold claim of a sub-32 degree day in Miami is true.
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#40 Postby richtrav » Tue Dec 13, 2005 9:09 pm

Doh! I can't get it right either! That should read 1895, not 1894
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