Muslim Woman Sues to Wear Veil for License - PUH-LEEZ!

[mf_dolphin]

Calm down WidreMann I agree that the child beating information has nothing to do with the issue of the drivers license. It is interesting background information on the people involved but has nothing to do with the particular issue at hand.

The real point here is that there is a legal requirement to have your picture on your drivers license for identification purposes. The veil does not allow for the identification purpose of the picture. SOmeone messed up when the license was issued and they are trying to correct the mistake. It has nothing to do with hatred of Muslims. It has everything to do with complying with the law of the land. If the veil does not impair her ability to safely operate the vehicle then the picture is the only issue. If she refuses to comply with the law then she should not have the privilege of driving

[Rainband]

I agree MF..it's the law and has nothing to do with her being a child beating..waste of taxpayers money-frivilous lawsuit starting idiot!!!! BTW Just-jake..Love your response!!!!

[justjake]

The fact that she beat her children is immaterial. There are Christians who beat their children as well, as well as Jews and people of every other religion. The point is whether it is okay for her to wear her vail or not. I know if you went to a muslim country and they required that you couldn't wear any Christian paraphernalia, such as crosses or Jesuses, or whatever, you would be up in arms about how ridiculous it is that they won't let you display your faith. Oh wait a minute, when people want to ban public Christian activities and displays, you guys DO get up in arms about it. Pick one stance and stick to it; don't be hypocrits.

WM, if there was ONLY ONE thing that I could convince you of, it would be that anybody that is beating their children ARE NOT CHRISTIANS! You can walk into a church, walk the aisle, and put your name on a role, but that no more makes one a Christian than walking into a garage makes one a car.

Jesus commanded two things of his followers.

Love God with all you got.

Love others (EVERY other) more than you do yourself.

If someone goes out and murderers people, they are NOT a Christian according to many passages, but 1 John 3:15 in particular.

[WidreMann]

The point, jake, is that people professing to be of any religion, have beaten their children. I would say she isn't a good muslim for beating her children, so I guess I agree with you. But the point is not whether or not she should have been beating her children, but rather that there isn't something about her being a muslim that means that she is supposed to beat her children. She's not, and it is illegal here and there.

[justjake]

Yes, WM. And another point to make is that Islam seems to me to be not much more than a religion made out of 7th and 8th century Arab culture. She seems to think that it is because 'her lord' would be displeased, but with the way that Islam oppresses women it is apparent that it is a form of control. IMO, anyways...

[mf_dolphin]

There are a lot of cultures that oppress women. Some would say our own It's only been in recent history that things have changed for the better here in the US. The Islamic religion is about the same value set that Christianity is in general. It's man's interpretation and bastardization of the religion that is usualy at fault. This applies equally to every religion that I've studied. I'm far from an expert but you would be surprised how close a lot of the major religions are to one another...

[WidreMann]

Yes, WM. And another point to make is that Islam seems to me to be not much more than a religion made out of 7th and 8th century Arab culture.

Christianity was built out of Jewish culture and then was further affected by existing European values and philosophy. And Islam developed out of Judaism and the Arab culture, almost exactly paralleling the development of Christianity.

She seems to think that it is because 'her lord' would be displeased, but with the way that Islam oppresses women it is apparent that it is a form of control. IMO, anyways...

The same could be said of many tenets of Christian. The big three religions are all the same in that respect.

[deb_in_nc]

I'm with the majority here. If you want to drive take off the veil. It's going to really tick me off if they let her have her way.

Debbie

[Pburgh]

It's not a question of religion. It's the law. Take off the vail or don't drive. If you don't like our laws - go somewhere where you like the law!!!!!! If she looses, yes, I think she should have to pay all court costs. IMHO

[Rainband]

It's not a question of religion. It's the law. Take off the vail or don't drive. If you don't like our laws - go somewhere where you like the law!!!!!! If she looses, yes, I think she should have to pay all court costs. IMHO

I said the same thing LOL I think great minds think alike!!

[southerngale]

First of all, I've never known a Christian who beat children. The two don't go together.

And her beating children doesn't have anything directly to do with the case at hand, but it does say something about her character. If her "faith" is so strong that she doesn't want to remove her veil, what is she doing beating kids and breaking their arms? I don't think her faith has anything to do with this.

WidreMann...I wouldn't be in a Muslim country where they wouldn't allow me to wear a cross. I live in America and here I can wear crosses and here we show our faces for our drivers licenses. If she doesn't like the way we do it here, she should go to a Muslim country.

Nobody is being a hypocrit.

[David]

A poll on AOL states...

Should Sultanna Freeman be forced to take off her veil?

91% · Yes, she should have her picture taken like everyone else 557,858
9% · No, it's a violation of her religious freedom 54,276
Total votes: 612,134

Has the government gone too far in the name of security?

87% · No, the measures being taken are vital in keeping us safe 521,296
13% · Yes, what happened to "land of the free"? 74,588
Total votes: 595,884


Full Story:

ORLANDO, Fla. (May 28) - Experts in Islamic law are being called to testify in the lawsuit of a Muslim woman fighting a state order to take off her veil for her driver's license photo.

Sultanna Freeman, 35, says Florida's insistence on photographing her face violates her religious rights.

``I don't unveil ... because it would be disobeying my Lord,'' Freeman testified Tuesday at the start of her non-jury trial.

Assistant Attorney General Jason Vail argued that having an easily identifiable photo on a driver's license is a matter of public safety.

``It's the primary method of identification in Florida and the nation,'' Vail said. ``I don't think there can be any doubt there is a public safety interest.''

Freeman's attorneys argue that state officials didn't care that she wore a veil in her Florida driver's license photo until after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, an allegation the state denies.

``This is about religious liberty. It's about whether this country is going to have religious diversity,'' said Howard Marks, an attorney for the American Civil Liberties Union of Florida.

Both sides planned to call experts in Islamic law at the trial, which continues Wednesday. A copy of the Quran has been entered into evidence.

Freeman, a convert to Islam previously known as Sandra Kellar, wore her veil for the photo on the Florida driver's license she obtained after moving to the state in 2001.

Nine months later, she received a letter from the state warning that it would revoke her license unless she returned for a photo with her face uncovered.

Freeman claims her religious beliefs require her to keep her head and face covered out of modesty and that her faith prohibits her face from being photographed.

05/28/03 07:34 EDT

[j]

she probably wants to where the veil to cover up her beard!

[Miss Mary]

Leave it to you j to put a different spin on the story.....LOL

[firefighter16]

Now thats funny. Even I know their men make them shave.

[southerngale]

LOL j

[Pburgh]

Hey, I was gettin a real good MAD worked up - now look what you did. I'm laughing. shoot

[streetsoldier]

It appears to me that she and her husband are using their "Islamic faith" to cover a multitude of sins (metaphorically speaking), and really don't have a clue about basic Islamic doctrine at all.

FI, Islam is a highly patriarchal socio-religious belief, in which the MALE has literally power of life and death over his wife and children; such matters as "discipline" would have fallen to her husband, YET...it was SHE who was charged with abuse and neglect, with hubby "covering" by not permitting police to address the issue without a warant, claiming "religious status", which is also not an Islamic trait (as the family is subject to the male, so also the male is subject to the authorities, and for him to deny due process is NOT Islamic, as it also goes against strict hospitality edicts).

Does anyone else smell rotting camel dung here?

[southerngale]

Yes streetsoldier...I do!

Pburgh...laughing is good for the soul
Now what did you want to say?

[Lake Effect1]

I can picture it now, every ex con will be wearing a veil all in the name of religon. 100s' of drivers going down the freeway with veils on. Oh boy!!