500,000 March for the Rights of Illegals in Los Angeles, etc

[gtalum]

Deport them now!!!

how do you find them to deport them?

Gtalum I know you like the Idea of the North American union but it will not happen ever as long as I'm alive!

I give it a decade. By the end of the decade we'll have free immigration between all North Americna nations, if not an outright union between us.

[senorpepr]

I give it a decade. By the end of the decade we'll have free immigration between all North Americna nations, if not an outright union between us.

I disagree with that, especially since immigration between North American nations are becoming more restricted, especially when concerning passports. Maybe in the long-term future, but not in the next decade.

[GalvestonDuck]

Some of us wouldn't provide such proof even when asked, no matter the circumstances. If a cop asked me for such proof, he'd be speaking to my attorney right quick.

That's the problem. The laws aren't strictly enforced. And then if they are, there would be those like you who would lawyer up and tie up the authorities unnecessarily , making it easier for those who are actually breaking the law because it would be such a hassle to enforce.

[senorpepr]

Some of us wouldn't provide such proof even when asked, no matter the circumstances. If a cop asked me for such proof, he'd be speaking to my attorney right quick.

That's the problem. The laws aren't strictly enforced. And then if they are, there would be those like you who would lawyer up and tie up the authorities unnecessarily , making it easier for those who are actually breaking the law because it would be such a hassle to enforce.

Well, for what it's worth, there isn't a law to be enforced... strictly or not. You cannot be forced to show proof of ID, unless you are driving a vechicle.

[gtalum]

Well, for what it's worth, there isn't a law to be enforced... strictly or not. You cannot be forced to show proof of ID, unless you are driving a vechicle.

Exactly. And the US Constitution prevents a general ID requirement, unless amended.

[GalvestonDuck]

Well, for what it's worth, there isn't a law to be enforced... strictly or not. You cannot be forced to show proof of ID, unless you are driving a vechicle.

Sure there is. They aren't called ILLEGAL immigrants for nothing, are they? There are immigration laws to be enforced (my point). Title 8 covers all of that.

I never said there was a law to show an ID. However, in order to enter the US legally, one must grow through the proper channels. Most times, that means showing some proof of citizenship (of whatever country from which you came). Then, if you don't have proof of US citizenship or other papers that show you can enter the States, you must obtain such papers or turn around and leave.

I've been to the border a number of times and also flown in and out of the country. No one could enter without showing proper papers.

[Matt-hurricanewatcher]

Deport them now!!!

how do you find them to deport them?

Gtalum I know you like the Idea of the North American union but it will not happen ever as long as I'm alive!

I give it a decade. By the end of the decade we'll have free immigration between all North Americna nations, if not an outright union between us.

So you think we will become one nation. How would this goverment work it would be large in powerful if it did. I would rather see the states get there power back way before anything like this.

[greeng13]

Duckie, actually it seems like they can get here without papers...
























just NOT LEGALLY.

i think that is why the point of the new legislation is to go against employers who employ those that are illegal because in order to hold a LEGAL job in this country you must a) provide proof of citizenship in the US or b) provide proof of permanent resident status or c) a work visa or d) a green card (if I am not mistaken).

the other thing that irks me is that an illegal can come here and in 10 days (just an arbitray number it can be less) give birth and that child IS an American citizen (if I am not mistaken).....and if said mother does not have a job or cannot provide then we have another welfare case.

there are proper routes to take is the point...that is the law...and the law is the law...write your congressman/woman!!!!

which i think you will find...people have been doing and that is a lot of the reason why this is taking place now--legislation.

you are not going to just be able to stop someone on the street and demand identification...the US does not have such a system (unless you are operating a vehicle, drinking alcoholic beverages, buying cigarettes, etc.). but in an environment where they must get food stamps, employment, driver's license, state issued ID card, etc....you should be able to find out WHO is LEGAL and who IS NOT.

Heck to become a citizen there are certain tests one must perform (if i am not mistaken)

if they are visiting or have a visa they MUST have that document on them at all times (i.e. a Passport, or proof of Visa, etc.)---if I am not mistaken

quoted from link below (at end of post) :

The Permanent Resident Card, Form I-551, is issued to all Permanent Residents as evidence of alien registration and their permanent status in the US. The card must be in your possession at all times. This requirement means that you are not only required to have a currently valid Form I-551 at all times, but also that you must carry your currently valid Form I-551 on your person at all times. The Permanent Resident Card currently is issued with a 10-year validity. You status as a Permanent Resident does not expire with the 10-year validity. Only the card expires. The card is only valid up to the expiration date and must be renewed before it expires.

i see gtalum that you seem to be playing devil's advocate here.

if you are a citizen of the US i would think that you would show at least some concern at your tax dollars going to fund the life of "thieves" essentially.

because the way i see it they steal from me...they take my fellow Americans' jobs, they break my country's laws, to an extent they have formed a "black market" of slave labor, and most of all my taxes go to programs that support people who are not even citizens of this country and Mexico is not considered an "opressive regime" from which one must escape political or religious persecution, where the government hunts down its own people and forces them to live their way or forces them into exile, etc. (if i am not mistaken)

fine them heavily for being here illegally so the law is not a moot point...deport them, and then make them go through the proper routes to establish being here legally if their goal is to live here. which i would think involves some aspect of being employed or physically related (or "winning the lottery") if i am not mistaken:

quoted from same source (link below at end of post):

Some of you came to the United States as immigrants through a relative or through an employer. Some of you came as refugees or were given asylum status. And some of you came through other programs, like the Diversity Visa Lottery

a lot of reading at this site:

http://uscis.gov/graphics/services/residency/index.htm

[Aslkahuna]

GTalum-I would certainly like to be around if you were to come up to the BP checkpoint on AZ90 10 miles north of Sierra Vista and told the agent there to take a hike if he asked for ID or prove of status. It would really be amusing and BTW the Courts have already ruled on the isue which is why the checkpoints are still there. But I have a hypothethical question-what would happen if the worst fears of the Climate Change people came true and we were plunged into Ice Age conditions in the northern US which sent hordes of Americans heading towards Mexico for warmer climate, food and jobs? Would Mexico welcome us with open arms and provide free health care, welfare and education and grant us amnesty or would they put their Army at the Border with orders to shoot to kill? I believe that the latter would be far more likely than the former-Mexico may have the idea that it's perfectly fine for their people to enter another sovereign nation illegally and expect that the government of that Nation treat them better than they do their own citizens but they are most unfriendly towards people who enter their Country illegally-get caught in Mexico without papers (which you MUST have and show when asked) and the Federales will throw you in jail until the Judge gets around to deporting you. There is a zone that extends up to 20 km inside Mexico called the Frontera where you can move in and out with no problems, beyond the Frontera, you need to show that you are in the Country legally either by a passport showing your entry, or a Turista permit or whatever else they give you when you enter the Country. What would be even more amusing is if gtalum was crazy enough to demand his rights if he were in Mexico and confronted by the authorities.

Steve

[greeng13]

Agreed...i thought about mentioning some of that but:

a) too far out of my realm
b) never been to Mexico
c) or Arizona

[weatherlover427]

Because they have no proof that they are here legally which you get when you enter the Country legally. The city of Costa Mesa has decided to no longer be a Sanctuary city. We have a couple of Sanctuary cities in AZ (Chandler and Mesa are two) but the trend in AZ recently has been to make AZ less hospitable towards illegals from the Governor, who is deploying Guard troops along the Border to a series of bills being passed by the Legislature. The idea is to get rid of illegals here and send them elsewhere in the Country so that those who don't think there's a problem can deal with them. As far as Uncle Stupid is concerned, he can't be trusted to do right by us.

Steve

Normally I don't get into these types of threads; but once I saw Costa Mesa mentioned I had to post (since that's where I live).

As stated, I live in the city of Costa Mesa and I have not heard anything about this. I can definitely vouch for the fact that a lot of Hispanics are lounging around various areas of both this city as well as Santa Ana; and they seem to be looking for work or just chit-chatting.

It's none of my business to go up to them and ask "De donde vives?" which means "where do you live?" but all in all I do agree that this is becoming a bigger and bigger problem by the day.

[gtalum]

So you think we will become one nation.

Not exactly. I predict a union similar in scope to the European Union. if we don't form such a union, we will eventually become uncompetitive in the world economy.

[gtalum]

GTalum-I would certainly like to be around if you were to come up to the BP checkpoint on AZ90 10 miles north of Sierra Vista and told the agent there to take a hike if he asked for ID or prove of status. It would really be amusing and BTW the Courts have already ruled on the isue which is why the checkpoints are still there.

Interestingly enough, I have refused to show ID at two such checkpoints in texas. I can't speak from experience in Arizona. When asked for ID by teh authorities, I generally ask "Will I be arrested if I don't show ID?" and the answer has always been "No>'> So then i respond 'No thanks" and go away. I sincerely hope that they try to sarrest me for it one time. I'd definitely like to take some cash for it.

But I have a hypothethical question-what would happen if the worst fears of the Climate Change people came true and we were plunged into Ice Age conditions in the northern US which sent hordes of Americans heading towards Mexico for warmer climate, food and jobs? Would Mexico welcome us with open arms and provide free health care, welfare and education and grant us amnesty or would they put their Army at the Border with orders to shoot to kill?

I'd say that's irrelevant. Do you really consider Mexico to be a beacon of human rights?

What would be even more amusing is if gtalum was crazy enough to demand his rights if he were in Mexico and confronted by the authorities.

I'm confused. We were talking about the US. Since the rights you mention don't exist in Mexico, why would I demand them there? On the other hand, they are constitutionally guaranteed here, so I will and do demand them constantly.

I choose not to allow police to intimidate me. I distrust and therefore have little respect for government authority in general, but police are generally the worst of the bunch, IMHO.

[gtalum]

I have no problems with requiring ID to obtain "welfare", but despite certain claims I have seen no evidence that illegal immigrants actually get welfare of any kind. And as for concern over my tax dollars goign to "thieves", they're going to do so whether there are illegal immigrants in the country or not. This is why I always push for lower taxes. IMHO taxes themselves are theft.

In the end, illegal immigrants provide much more value to the nation than they cost us in benefits.

[Janice]

We have an address, maybe a car, an employer, a purse or wallet full of id, bank cards, birth certificate, we speak fluent English and I am sure if a cop asked us a question regarding our country, we could answer it. We could pop off the name of a school we attended. No, not all us keep id on us all the time, jogging for one. So, in a blue moon, we might have to come up with some idea by going home, etc. But, I am sure we would not be id'd unless we were doing something suspicious.

[gtalum]

Sure that's great for you, but what about an naturalized American citizen of Mexican descent who is doing soemhting "suspicious" like walking near the border? What if they don't have their ID on them?

[Janice]

Well, if they look suspicious and they are on the border not carrying id, they need to be id'd. That is the same for any other American citizen. Anyone looking suspicious at the border needs to be checked.

[gtalum]

Well, if they look suspicious and they are on the border not carrying id, they need to be id'd. That is the same for any other American citizen. Anyone looking suspicious at the border needs to be checked.

Not true. In fact, the constitution guarantees my right to walk anywhere in the US without ID, should I so choose.

[Janice]

Well, we are living in different times now. The government said to watch for anything suspicious.

[GalvestonDuck]

Not true. In fact, the constitution guarantees my right to walk anywhere in the US without ID, should I so choose.

It does?

So when my boss tells me to wear my ID at all times in preparation for a JCAHO visit, I have the guaranteed right to refuse?