Is the 00Z CMC on crack?

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Scott_inVA
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#41 Postby Scott_inVA » Wed Jun 07, 2006 2:42 pm

southerngale wrote:
Scott_inVA wrote:
Scorpion wrote:What models are good? It seems like the only good globals are the UKMET and GFS.


Gotta follow trends to see.


Top 5 from the "GOM 5's" last year
:

EMILY
TPC/NHC
NOGAPS
BAMD
GFS
DSHP

KATRINA
NOGAPS (aviation tracker)
BAMD
UKMET
GFDL
EC
(note: NHC bombed at 72 hrs due to bad forecasting early in the storm cycle. Last 72 hours they were awesome)

WILMA
UKMET
NOGAPS (aviation tracker)
GFS
TPC/NHC
EC

This exclues less familiar models to the public but you get the idea.

Scott
Mid-Atlantic WX.com
Lexington, VA


What about Rita? Rita was one of the GOM 5's that hit as a major.


Southerngale, inserted Rita "top 5" into my original reply :wink:

Scott
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#42 Postby wxman57 » Wed Jun 07, 2006 2:43 pm

Note that the WRF will be officially replacing the NAM (formerly ETA) next week. This isn' the HWRF (Hurricane WRF).
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#43 Postby Scott_inVA » Wed Jun 07, 2006 2:54 pm

Scorpion wrote:More and more models picking up on development...


CMC will not verify on closing off a Low in GOM...especially with Invest 93 in Pacific, just W of Central America. GFS likes this and this morning's EC did as well.

Scott
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#44 Postby HurricaneHunter914 » Wed Jun 07, 2006 2:57 pm

So let me get this straight. Once models start to agree with each other on a system does that increase the chances of a Development?
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#45 Postby HurricaneHunter914 » Wed Jun 07, 2006 2:58 pm

So let me get this straight. Once models start to agree with each other on a system does that increase the chances of a Development?
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Scorpion

#46 Postby Scorpion » Wed Jun 07, 2006 2:58 pm

Hurricane Hunter 914 wrote:So let me get this straight. Once models start to agree with each other on a system does that increase the chances of a Development?


Without a doubt.
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#47 Postby Steve » Wed Jun 07, 2006 3:07 pm

>>WRF is no good to me.but yes the MM5 is part of the GFS but my point is nothin is going to develope right now there is just to much shear.

You do realize that shear is typically involved in early and late season storms, right? (I knew you did, I just wanted to point out that the shear isn't going to stop something that is determined to form).

Btw, it seems to me that in the 4-6 day range, the models are having a tough time concerning whether development will be on the EPAC or Atlantic side of C.A. I think we'll know whether all this was practice or not by Saturday.

Steve
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#48 Postby southerngale » Wed Jun 07, 2006 3:11 pm

Scott_inVA wrote:
southerngale wrote:What about Rita? Rita was one of the GOM 5's that hit as a major.


Southerngale, inserted Rita "top 5" into my original reply :wink:

Scott


Thanks bunches, Scott. I was curious which models did best with Rita. I know most of them were pretty much out to lunch early on, with a landfall in the Northern Mexico/Deep South Texas area.
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#49 Postby Scott_inVA » Wed Jun 07, 2006 3:20 pm

Hurricane Hunter 914 wrote:So let me get this straight. Once models start to agree with each other on a system does that increase the chances of a Development?


Generally, confidence builds when model consensus has a reasonable error margin to synoptic wx obs and upper winds.

Not always a done deal. Debby, 2000 went from a hurricane to dissipation in 36 hours. As I recall only the MM5 progged that. Need to check but it was considered a major threat to SFL only to do the Big Fizz. Most models and the NHC performed poorly with the TC.

"Live by models, get stabbed in the head by models"
one of my many favorite DT quotes ;)

Scott
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#50 Postby wxmann_91 » Wed Jun 07, 2006 6:07 pm

Scorpion wrote:What models are good? It seems like the only good globals are the UKMET and GFS.


I prefer GFS, UKMET, and ECMWF.
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#51 Postby wxmann_91 » Wed Jun 07, 2006 6:13 pm

Not always a done deal. Debby, 2000 went from a hurricane to dissipation in 36 hours. As I recall only the MM5 progged that. Need to check but it was considered a major threat to SFL only to do the Big Fizz. Most models and the NHC performed poorly with the TC.


I think the TUTT that caused the dissipation was small enough so the Globals didn't really have a good handle on it, except for the one mesoscale model, the MM5. Usually though, if the models agree I'm going to take them seriously.
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#52 Postby Scorpion » Wed Jun 07, 2006 6:14 pm

I believe Debby moved into Hispaniola and that's what caused the dissipation. I could be wrong though.
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#53 Postby wxmann_91 » Wed Jun 07, 2006 6:18 pm

NHC Debby Report wrote:The weakening storm turned toward the west and moved along the northern coast of Hispaniola. Although the mountainous land mass of that island may have played some role in the weakening by restricting inflow from the south and disrupting the southern part of the cyclone's circulation, it appears that vertical shear was the main cause for weakening.
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Derek Ortt

#54 Postby Derek Ortt » Wed Jun 07, 2006 8:22 pm

for Debby, I fully disagree with the NHC findings, as satellite imagery clearly indicated that there was a lack of low-level inflow while over Hispaniola. Also, G-IV dropsondes showed that the shear was not due to the TUTT, but due to the SAL
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#55 Postby wjs3 » Wed Jun 07, 2006 8:42 pm

I know we're really talking about model handling of development, and not track so much, but the issue of consensus applies to track too.
And while consensus on tracks is "good..."

One of the worst sets of model performance I've seen in recent years has to be Ivan. As I recall, there was continuous model consensus that the storm was going to start a poleward move run after run, day after day as it croseed the Carribean...yet it did not.

From Stacy Stewart's analysis:

"Official track forecasts had, in general, a persistent right-of-track bias for the first 11 days of Ivan's existence as a tropical cyclone (Figure 5a). The official track forecasts relied heavily on the global model forecasts, which prematurely eroded the large and strong subtropical ridge to the north of Ivan that extended well westward across the Bahamas, Florida, and into the Gulf of Mexico. In fact, several of the GFS model forecast cycles consistently eroded the ridge across Bahamas and took Ivan well to the east of Florida, even as the hurricane was approaching Jamaica. The westward jog that Ivan made on 11 September appears to be, at least in part, the result of a mid- to upper-level cold low to the north of Hispaniola that moved slowly southwestward rather than weakening and lifting out to the northeast as some of the models had been forecasting"


So, consensus is good, but guidance is guidance, just that. Even if models agree, they can agree and be wrong.


WJS3
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Jim Cantore

#56 Postby Jim Cantore » Wed Jun 07, 2006 8:45 pm

heres the worst preformer by storm

Arlene

LBAR

Bret

LBAR

Cindy

LBAR

Dennis

LBAR

Emily

LBAR

Franklin

LBAR

Gert

LBAR

Harvey

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Irene

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Jose

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Katrina

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Lee

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Maria

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Nate

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Ophelia

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Phellipe

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Rita

LBAR

Stan

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Tammy

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Vince

LBAR

Wilma

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Alpha

LBAR

Beta

LBAR

Gamma

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Delta

LBAR

Epsilon

LBAR

Zeta

LBAR

I just noticed this! There seems to be a pattern :eek:
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