2 U.S kidnnapped soldiers bodies found

Chat about anything and everything... (well almost anything) Whether it be the front porch or the pot belly stove or news of interest or a topic of your liking, this is the place to post it.

Moderator: S2k Moderators

Message
Author
User avatar
x-y-no
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 8359
Age: 65
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 12:14 pm
Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL

#41 Postby x-y-no » Tue Jun 20, 2006 3:49 pm

sunny wrote:
gtalum wrote:I just don't understand how people desperately defending their homeland should be considered "terrorists".


But see, there is another problem gtalum!! If these were Iraqi's then I might have to step back for a minute. But the majority of these fighters are FOREIGN fighters.


Well, the people who captured, tortured and killed these soldiers were apparently part of "al Qaeda in Iraq" which primarily does consist of foreigners. And I'll certainly agree that that's a terrorist organization.

OTOH, a substantial majority of those fighting us in Iraq are not members of "al Qaeda in Iraq" but rather native Iraqi insurgent groups.

So in the context of this particular event, you're right. But in the context of the overall war, that's a different story.
0 likes   

CajunMama
Retired Staff
Retired Staff
Posts: 10791
Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2003 9:57 pm
Location: 30.22N, 92.05W Lafayette, LA

#42 Postby CajunMama » Tue Jun 20, 2006 3:49 pm

*Ahem*...might i step in here a moment? There are 3 of y'all that need to step away from this thread. Name calling will not be allowed. Arguing your views like this doesn't make for good reading. Thanks.....
Last edited by CajunMama on Tue Jun 20, 2006 3:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
0 likes   

User avatar
artist
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 9792
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2005 3:26 pm
Location: West Palm

#43 Postby artist » Tue Jun 20, 2006 3:49 pm

I am sure it would have found its way into the history books.
Also - you never answered my other ?
0 likes   

User avatar
mf_dolphin
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 17758
Age: 68
Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2002 2:05 pm
Location: St Petersburg, FL
Contact:

#44 Postby mf_dolphin » Tue Jun 20, 2006 3:52 pm

gtalum wrote:I just don't understand how people desperately defending their homeland should be considered "terrorists". I'm not sure if you're aware of it, but we fought a pretty dirty guerrilla war in the American Revolution and we won because of it. When you're defending your home from an attacking nation, you will take desperate measures. The failure to account for this insurgency is IMHO the biggest failure of the operation and one we will be paying for for many years to come.

As you noted we are verging into the political, and I will not say any more on this topic. I apologize if I've offended.


Since when are Saudis, Iranian's, Syrian's et al defending their homeland in Iraq? These aren't desperate measures it's and out butchery. To try and compare the two situations is beyond absurd IMO. When you run across a mad dog you don't anything but shoot it on site. That's exactly what should happen to these barbarians.
0 likes   

User avatar
gtalum
S2K Supporter
S2K Supporter
Posts: 4749
Age: 49
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2004 3:48 pm
Location: Bradenton, FL
Contact:

#45 Postby gtalum » Tue Jun 20, 2006 3:55 pm

If Saudis are fighting in Iraq, the further question is, "why are we still allied with Saudi Arabia?"
0 likes   

User avatar
artist
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 9792
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2005 3:26 pm
Location: West Palm

#46 Postby artist » Tue Jun 20, 2006 3:56 pm

since there are some bad saudi's then all must be condemned? I do think that is a little bit extreme.
0 likes   

User avatar
SouthFloridawx
S2K Supporter
S2K Supporter
Posts: 8346
Age: 46
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2005 1:16 am
Location: Sarasota, FL
Contact:

#47 Postby SouthFloridawx » Tue Jun 20, 2006 3:57 pm

Iraqi: Soldiers killed in 'barbaric way' By KIM GAMEL, Associated Press Writer
28 minutes ago



U.S. forces on Tuesday recovered the bodies of two American soldiers reported captured by insurgents last week. An Iraqi defense ministry official said the men were tortured and "killed in a barbaric way." Al-Qaida in Iraq claimed responsibility for killing the soldiers, and said the successor to terror leader Abu Musab al-Zarqawi had "slaughtered" them.

The claim was made in a Web statement that could not be authenticated. The language in the statement suggested the men were beheaded.

U.S. Maj. Gen. William Caldwell said the remains were believed to be those of Pfc. Kristian Menchaca, 23, of Houston, and Pfc. Thomas L. Tucker, 25, of Madras, Ore.

He said U.S. troops — part of a search involving some 8,000 American and Iraqi forces — found the bodies late Monday near Youssifiyah, where they disappeared Friday.

Troops did not recover the bodies until Tuesday because they had to wait until daylight to cordon off the area for an ordnance team for fear it was booby-trapped, Caldwell said.

The checkpoint attacked Friday was in the Sunni Arab region known as the "Triangle of Death" because of frequent ambushes there of U.S. soldiers and Iraqi troops. Caldwell said troops encountered a lot of roadside bombs and other explosives during the three-day search, including in the area where the bodies were found.

The cause of death was "undeterminable at this point," and the two bodies will be taken back to the United States for DNA tests to confirm the identities, Caldwell said.

The two soldiers disappeared after an insurgent attack Friday at a checkpoint by a Euphrates River canal, 12 miles south of Baghdad. Spc. David J. Babineau, 25, of Springfield, Mass., was killed. The three men were assigned to the 1st Battalion, 502nd Infantry Regiment, 2nd Brigade, 101st Airborne Division from Fort Campbell, Ky.

The director of the Iraqi defense ministry's operation room, Maj. Gen. Abdul-Aziz Mohammed, said the bodies showed signs of having been tortured. "With great regret, they were killed in a barbaric way," he said.

The claim of responsibility was made in the name of the Mujahedeen Shura Council, an umbrella organization of five insurgent groups led by al-Qaida in Iraq. The group posted an Internet statement Monday claiming it was holding the American soldiers captive.

"We give the good news ... to the Islamic nation that we have carried God's verdict by slaughtering the two captured crusaders," said the claim, which appeared on an Islamic militant Web site where insurgent groups regularly post statements and videos.

"With God Almighty's blessing, Abu Hamza al-Muhajer carried out the verdict of the Islamic court" calling for the soldiers' slaying, the statement said.

The statement said the soldiers were "slaughtered," suggesting that al-Muhajer beheaded them. The Arabic word used in the statement, "nahr," is used for the slaughtering of sheep by cutting the throat and has been used in past statements to refer to beheadings.

The U.S. military has identified al-Muhajer as an Egyptian associate of al-Zarqawi also known as Abu Ayyub al-Masri.

The killings would be the first acts of violence attributed to al-Muhajer since he was named al-Qaida in Iraq's new leader in a June 12 Web message by the group. Al-Zarqawi was killed in a U.S. airstrike on June 7.

Al-Zarqawi made al-Qaida in Iraq notorious for hostage beheadings and was believed to have killed two American captives himself — Nicholas Berg in April 2004 and Eugene Armstrong in September 2004.

Caldwell said that Iraqi and American troops involved in the search for the missing soldiers killed three suspected insurgents and detained 34 in fighting that wounded seven U.S. servicemen.

Also, just hours before the two soldiers went missing Friday, a U.S. airstrike killed a key al-Qaida in Iraq leader described as the group's "religious emir," he said.

Mansour Suleiman Mansour Khalifi al-Mashhadani, or Sheik Mansour, was killed with two foreign fighters in the same area where the soldiers' bodies were found, the U.S. spokesman said. The three were trying to flee in a vehicle.

Al-Mashhadani was "a key leader of Al Qaida in Iraq, with excellent religious, military and leadership credentials" and tied to the senior leadership, including al-Zarqawi and his alleged replacement, Caldwell said.

U.S. forces captured Mansour in July 2004 because of his ties to the militant groups Ansar al-Islam and Ansar al-Sunna, but the military let him go because he was not deemed an important terror figure at the time.

A witness to the attack Friday told The Associated Press on Sunday that insurgents swarmed the checkpoint, killing the driver of a Humvee before taking two of his comrades captive.

Ahmed Khalaf Falah, a farmer, said three Humvees at the checkpoint came under fire from many directions. Two Humvees went after the assailants but the third was ambushed.

He said seven masked gunmen, one carrying a heavy machine gun, killed the driver and took the two other U.S. soldiers captive. His account could not be verified independently.

Kidnappings of U.S. service members have been rare since the 2003 U.S.-led invasion of Iraq, despite the presence of about 130,000 forces.

The last U.S. soldier to be captured was Sgt. Keith M. Maupin of Batavia, Ohio, who was taken on April 9, 2004 after insurgents ambushed his fuel convoy. Two months later, a tape on Al-Jazeera purported to show a captive U.S. soldier shot, but the Army ruled it was inconclusive and remains listed as missing.

Caldwell said that in addition to the two soldiers, a dozen Americans — including Maupin and 11 private citizens — are missing in Iraq. In addition, Capt. Michael Speicher, a Navy pilot, remains listed as missing in Iraq since the 1991 Persian Gulf War, he said.

___

Associated Press writers Ryan Lenz in Balad, Iraq, and Nadia Abou el-Magd in Cairo, Egypt, contributed to this report.



Copyright © 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. The information contained in the AP News report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed without the prior written authority of The Associated Press.


Copyright © 2006 Yahoo! Inc. All rights reserved.
Questions or Comments
0 likes   

User avatar
gtalum
S2K Supporter
S2K Supporter
Posts: 4749
Age: 49
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2004 3:48 pm
Location: Bradenton, FL
Contact:

#48 Postby gtalum » Tue Jun 20, 2006 3:58 pm

artist wrote:since there are some bad saudi's then all must be condemned? I do think that is a little bit extreme.


The truth of the matter is that nearly everyone in Saudi Arabia feels the same way about us as those who actually may be fighting us feel. Muslim extremism is the enemy here. Saudi Arabia is abouttu as Muslim-extremist as a nation can get. They practice Wahhabism, the most extreme sect of Islam. In fact, Iraq was very light on Muslim extremism, and was a relatively secular nation.
0 likes   

User avatar
SouthFloridawx
S2K Supporter
S2K Supporter
Posts: 8346
Age: 46
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2005 1:16 am
Location: Sarasota, FL
Contact:

#49 Postby SouthFloridawx » Tue Jun 20, 2006 4:01 pm

Perhaps we can get back to the the two US soldiers that were killed and slaughtered in a barbaric way instead of needlessly arguing back and forth about something that should be discussed in a political thread perhaps.
0 likes   

Janice
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 4564
Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2002 6:14 pm
Location: Puerto Rico
Contact:

#50 Postby Janice » Tue Jun 20, 2006 4:02 pm

I don't think this has gone political yet...
0 likes   

User avatar
gtalum
S2K Supporter
S2K Supporter
Posts: 4749
Age: 49
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2004 3:48 pm
Location: Bradenton, FL
Contact:

#51 Postby gtalum » Tue Jun 20, 2006 4:02 pm

It is a tragedy that they were killed at all, and even moreso because of the method.
0 likes   

User avatar
x-y-no
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 8359
Age: 65
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 12:14 pm
Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL

#52 Postby x-y-no » Tue Jun 20, 2006 4:03 pm

gtalum wrote:If Saudis are fighting in Iraq, the further question is, "why are we still allied with Saudi Arabia?"


Well that's an easy one - Saudi Arabia is the world's biggest oil producer and the developed world is desperately dependent on oil. Thus, we have no option but to take the strategic decisions which will maximize the chance of SA remaining stable and inclined to produce oil at their maximum capacity, regardless of how we may feel about their actions and policies (including having tacitly fostered much of the Islamist extremism we're facing).

It's a heck of a bind (and for decades I've been urging an agressive policy of energy independence precisely in order to free us of this dilemma and afford us more freedom of action) but we're in it for at least another decade or two. No sense denying reality.
0 likes   

User avatar
artist
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 9792
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2005 3:26 pm
Location: West Palm

#53 Postby artist » Tue Jun 20, 2006 4:05 pm

Do you see them slaughtering us in droves as Americans step on their soil? I think not. That is because they, just as we, tolerate each other for the good of both. Countries have done this for years.
0 likes   

User avatar
artist
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 9792
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2005 3:26 pm
Location: West Palm

#54 Postby artist » Tue Jun 20, 2006 4:07 pm

i agree - it would be good to get back to the immediate topic - how sad it is what has happened to these young men. My heart grieves for their familes and my prayers go up for them all.
0 likes   

User avatar
sunny
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 7031
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2004 2:11 pm
Location: New Orleans

#55 Postby sunny » Tue Jun 20, 2006 4:10 pm

artist wrote:i agree - it would be good to get back to the immediate topic - how sad it is what has happened to these young men. My heart grieves for their familes and my prayers go up for them all.


The new "al-Qaeda" leader is claiming responsibility.
0 likes   

User avatar
SouthFloridawx
S2K Supporter
S2K Supporter
Posts: 8346
Age: 46
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2005 1:16 am
Location: Sarasota, FL
Contact:

#56 Postby SouthFloridawx » Tue Jun 20, 2006 4:12 pm

BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- Three members of the 101st Airborne Division have been charged with murder in the May shooting deaths of three Iraqi prisoners, the U.S. military announced Monday.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/06/ ... index.html

There are also consequences when our troops do things that are wrong also.
0 likes   

Janice
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 4564
Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2002 6:14 pm
Location: Puerto Rico
Contact:

#57 Postby Janice » Tue Jun 20, 2006 4:15 pm

The difference is our men get charged for torture and severe punishment of prisoners.
They go to court and face severe penaties. The terrorists never get punished for their tortures of our boys. They get praises from all their superiors.
0 likes   

User avatar
artist
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 9792
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2005 3:26 pm
Location: West Palm

#58 Postby artist » Tue Jun 20, 2006 4:15 pm

[quote="
There are also consequences when our troops do things that are wrong also.[/quote]

Exactly! Do you see the terrorists charging their own with atrocities?? I think not ( sorry- just had to say something)
0 likes   

User avatar
sunny
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 7031
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2004 2:11 pm
Location: New Orleans

#59 Postby sunny » Tue Jun 20, 2006 4:15 pm

SouthFloridawx wrote:BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- Three members of the 101st Airborne Division have been charged with murder in the May shooting deaths of three Iraqi prisoners, the U.S. military announced Monday.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/06/ ... index.html

There are also consequences when our troops do things that are wrong also.


There are. And we punish our soldiers accordingly.
0 likes   

User avatar
x-y-no
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 8359
Age: 65
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 12:14 pm
Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL

#60 Postby x-y-no » Tue Jun 20, 2006 4:16 pm

SouthFloridawx wrote:BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- Three members of the 101st Airborne Division have been charged with murder in the May shooting deaths of three Iraqi prisoners, the U.S. military announced Monday.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/06/ ... index.html

There are also consequences when our troops do things that are wrong also.



A very important point. It's hard to stick to one's standards when facing a vile enemy who does the kind of stuff they did to these soldiers. But long term, we win by doing that.
0 likes   


Return to “Off Topic”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests