You heard it first- 6/21/06=4/11/65?

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BillyBobzWildWX

You heard it first- 6/21/06=4/11/65?

#1 Postby BillyBobzWildWX » Tue Jun 20, 2006 10:42 pm

This may be a bit risky for my first board forecast, but I'm going to go ahead and just say it. Tomorrow I think could be a serious severe weather event/tornado outbreak, along the lines of if not worse than Palm Sunday 1965.

The systems aren't really that similar I'll admit in terms of exact layout. 4/11/65 was a strong surface low that spun off a line of discrete supercells, a powerful late winter/early spring system. But I mention it because I feel first of all it could be similar in terms of numbers, and secondly because its occuring over the exact same regions that were affected on Palm Sunday. Tomorrow will likely be much more dynamic when it comes to the upper level jet. The wind profiles are incredible from this thing! Winds are backed and unidirectional at first glance, so the thinking is tomorrow will mostly be a wind event. But, the wind fields will begin to change through the day, LCLs will be low, and storms should begin as surface based rotating sups in North Central Illinois. Storms should begin to fire along a line here and progress eastward throughout the day. SB CAPE values are already approaching 3000 j/kg, and will likely be higher. Moisture return looks good. Helicity is a bit eh at this point, but very steep lapse rates will give the storms a hell of alot to build off from, and I think due to the intense upper/lower level shearing, 50-60kts, the storms will be able to rotate easily.

The biggest question for tomorrow is surface heating/clearing, which is looking more and more.... intense. Temps are expected to reach upper 80's, to potentially 90 tomorrow. 00Z NAM is very bullish, progressive, and strong, breaking out massive convection around 12z and continuing with multiple lines of supercells/squalls. WRF is also quite bullish. With the system out in the midwest decaying, and a smaller window now for an overnight/early morning MCS, that will leave us in the clear for daytime heating. Temps will soar, and soar quickly through the tri state region. Winds look to be offshore in the afternoon, so seabreeze/marine affect should be limited.

So, today's bust is tomorrow's hell. Parameters are definitely in place for major severe outbreak tomorrow, with strong/violent tornadic supercells initally, lining out and forming into a large squall line/derecho with embedded sups. The SPC has a 45% hatched area on the Day 2, they dropped the 60% in order to get the hatching on for tomorrow as 45%. If they had gone 60% hatched, that would have been a high risk. However, I feel confident that tomorrow the SPC will issue a high risk by 1630z. If I had to put out probs, I'd say 60% hatched for wind, 45% for hail, and 30% hatched for tornadoes, perhaps even 45% hatched later on. Major and dangerous day, akin to the Palm Sunday Outbreak. Would not at all be surprised to see 50 or even 75 tornado reports, some long track and violent are possible. Take this threat seriously, VERY SERIOUSLY! It could prove to be fatal if you do not and are in the highest risk areas. :eek: :eek: :eek:
Last edited by BillyBobzWildWX on Wed Jun 21, 2006 12:39 am, edited 3 times in total.
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#2 Postby wxmann_91 » Tue Jun 20, 2006 10:56 pm

The MCS will form, no doubt. The upper air support will arrive, coupled with the 45 kt LLJ, it will, undoubtedly. Indeed, like today, the MCS may prove deadly to tomorrows setup, if it forms too late tonight. However, the RUC does paint the nose of the LLJ to veer to the east tonight, so maybe this go around the MCS can clear more quickly. I'm not going to say that tomorrow will be a Palm Sunday. I'm don't have data for the Palm Sunday outbreak, but I'm pretty sure it was a very dynamic setup given the long-track nature of the tornadoes. This will not be close. The core of the 250 mb winds will be to the north. But what I'm thinking is the 45% hatched/60% was for wind and wind only, and nobody sane would issue a high risk Day 2 for wind. I'm not good with derechos, so I really can't provide reasoning for why I think tomorrow will be one.

Nevertheless, great first post! :D
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#3 Postby BillyBobzWildWX » Tue Jun 20, 2006 11:08 pm

Thanks. If you're speaking for tonight's MCS, then you're correct. I think an MCS will form at some point, but its looking shortlived and shouldn't affected surface based heating/initiation tomorrow, so things should be able to get going. I'm not one to blatantly hype events without some form of backup, and I'm not even necessarily saying this will equal Palm Sunday. Its quite outrageous to think that there will be 20 violent tornadoes tomorrow, I should have highlighted that in my OP. It was a dynamic system, but with no hodograph soundings/good upper air data, its near impossible for me to highlight the differences and the complexities in the 65 storm system.

Another, probably more realistic analog event for me was 10/24/01, but I feel this has the certain potential to pass that. You're a correct about some of the dynamics being a bit north of the moisture trajectory, we shall see how that plays out. Cap is looking breakable at 850mb, today's problem was the tight inversion between 750mb and 850mb, that held back convection. Its a possibility tomorrow again, I won't lie, but there's nothing really to indicate that its going to reoccur. Again, not trying to hype, and I agree that an MCS will develop, and as tomorrow's system progresses through Ohio another will develop. But tomorrow has dangerous written all over it, for tornadoes, perhaps isolated but I contend potentially very violent, and a huge wind event. Very impressive dynamics shaping up, and thank you for your input.
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#4 Postby CrazyC83 » Tue Jun 20, 2006 11:56 pm

I am looking at more of a derecho than tornado outbreak. I'm looking at a repeat of May 31, 1998.
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#5 Postby wxmann_91 » Tue Jun 20, 2006 11:59 pm

CrazyC83 wrote:I am looking at more of a derecho than tornado outbreak. I'm looking at a repeat of May 31, 1998.


Again, dynamics won't be as strong. Core of upper level winds will be to the north of the instability, and the LLJ won't be as strong as it was.

However, I do see something like May 21, 2004 in the works tomorrow... everything shifted west a little.
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#6 Postby BillyBobzWildWX » Wed Jun 21, 2006 12:01 am

CrazyC83 wrote:I am looking at more of a derecho than tornado outbreak. I'm looking at a repeat of May 31, 1998.


Even so, the May 30-31, 1998 event featured an outbreak of 64 tornadoes, though it was predominantly wind. Do not discount the tornado threat right now.
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#7 Postby wxmann_91 » Wed Jun 21, 2006 12:22 am

BillyBobzWildWX wrote:
CrazyC83 wrote:I am looking at more of a derecho than tornado outbreak. I'm looking at a repeat of May 31, 1998.


Even so, the May 30-31, 1998 event featured an outbreak of 64 tornadoes, though it was predominantly wind. Do not discount the tornado threat right now.


...Over a three-day period. And again, we are comparing apples to oranges. The dynamics that time were quite impressive, otherwise we wouldn't have had a cyclic tornadic supercell followed by a derecho followed by a tornado outbreak. This system will be much more benign.
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#8 Postby CrazyC83 » Wed Jun 21, 2006 12:58 am

Still, I doubt the SPC will throw the High Risk initially, but I think they might later in the afternoon if the situation warrants it. Confidence is too low.

My guess for the initial threat:

Tornado - 10
Wind - 45-hatched
Hail - 30
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#9 Postby CrazyC83 » Wed Jun 21, 2006 1:03 am

They held the moderate risk, a bit farther north...
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#10 Postby conestogo_flood » Wed Jun 21, 2006 10:51 am

The Weather Network says severe thunderstorms are possible in extreme southwest Ontario today, and non-severe thunderstorms all over. They are totally underplaying this situation, is it really that severe? I live 50 miles southwest of Toronto and 150-200 miles northeast of Detroit(maybe less). I don't know what to expect today, I am in the 5% tornado risk but I cannot tell if I am in the moderate risk.
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#11 Postby CrazyC83 » Wed Jun 21, 2006 12:08 pm

conestogo_flood wrote:The Weather Network says severe thunderstorms are possible in extreme southwest Ontario today, and non-severe thunderstorms all over. They are totally underplaying this situation, is it really that severe? I live 50 miles southwest of Toronto and 150-200 miles northeast of Detroit(maybe less). I don't know what to expect today, I am in the 5% tornado risk but I cannot tell if I am in the moderate risk.


You are clearly in the moderate risk now.
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#12 Postby BillyBobzWildWX » Wed Jun 21, 2006 2:38 pm

Stuff is starting to break out now just west of the Mississippi, 18z soundings across the region are absolutely monstrous. IMHO, SPC has done a horrible job with the percentages today. Tornado percentages need to be at least 15%, and wind needs to be hatched. I'm at 86 now with sunny skies, towers going up to my west.
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#13 Postby CrazyC83 » Wed Jun 21, 2006 3:54 pm

484
WWCN12 CWTO 212014
SEVERE WEATHER BULLETIN
ISSUED BY ENVIRONMENT CANADA
AT 4:14 PM EDT WEDNESDAY 21 JUNE 2006.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
WATCHES/WARNINGS IN EFFECT FOR NORTHERN ONTARIO...

TORNADO WARNING FOR:
=NEW= CITY OF THUNDER BAY
=NEW= KAKABEKA FALLS - WHITEFISH LAKE - ARROW LAKE.

SEVERE THUNDERSTORM ABOUT 40 KM/H WEST OF THUNDER BAY AT
4.10 PM IS MOVING EAST AT 70 KM/H AND WILL REACH THE CITY OF
THUNDER BAY NEAR 5.00 PM. THIS SUPERCELL IS CAPABLE OF
PRODUCING A TORNADO. DAMAGING WINDS OF 100 KM/H..TORRENTIAL
DOWNPOURS REDUCING VISIBILITY TO NEAR ZERO AND 2 CM HAIL ARE
ALSO QUITE POSSIBLE.

THIS IS A DANGEROUS STORM AND PERSONS OUTSIDE SHOULD TAKE COVER
IMMEDIATELY.


THIS IS A WARNING THAT SEVERE THUNDERSTORMS WITH TORNADOES ARE
IMMINENT OR OCCURRING IN THESE REGIONS. MONITOR WEATHER
CONDITIONS. TAKE IMMEDIATE SAFETY PRECAUTIONS.

NOTE..A SUMMARY OF ALL WARNINGS AND WATCHES FOR NORTHERN
ONTARIO IS AVAILABLE IN THE WWCN12 CWTO BULLETIN ISSUED
IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWING THIS BULLETIN.
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#14 Postby CrazyC83 » Wed Jun 21, 2006 4:03 pm

BULLETIN - EAS ACTIVATION REQUESTED
TORNADO WARNING
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE GRAND RAPIDS MI
459 PM EDT WED JUN 21 2006

THE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE IN GRAND RAPIDS
HAS ISSUED A

* TORNADO WARNING FOR...
CALHOUN COUNTY IN SOUTH CENTRAL MICHIGAN

* UNTIL 530 PM EDT

* AT 456 PM EDT...NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE DOPPLER RADAR INDICATED A
SEVERE THUNDERSTORM PRODUCING A TORNADO. THIS STORM WAS LOCATED 5
MILES SOUTHWEST OF BATTLE CREEK...AND MOVING EAST AT 40 MPH.

* THE TORNADO WILL BE NEAR...
BROWNLEE PARK BY 510 PM EDT
MARSHALL BY 520 PM EDT

THE SAFEST PLACE TO BE DURING A TORNADO IS IN A BASEMENT. GET UNDER A
WORKBENCH OR OTHER PIECE OF STURDY FURNITURE. IF NO BASEMENT IS
AVAILABLE...SEEK SHELTER ON THE LOWEST FLOOR OF THE BUILDING IN AN
INTERIOR HALLWAY OR ROOM SUCH AS A CLOSET. USE BLANKETS OR PILLOWS TO
COVER YOUR BODY AND ALWAYS STAY AWAY FROM WINDOWS.

A TORNADO WATCH REMAINS IN EFFECT UNTIL 1100 PM EDT WEDNESDAY EVENING
FOR SOUTHWESTERN MICHIGAN.

LAT...LON 4234 8529 4224 8530 4220 8487 4240 8487

$$
COBB
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#15 Postby BillyBobzWildWX » Wed Jun 21, 2006 4:06 pm

Media now reporting a possible tornado near Swains Lake in Jackson County. Very dangerous cell.
Last edited by BillyBobzWildWX on Wed Jun 21, 2006 4:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#16 Postby CrazyC83 » Wed Jun 21, 2006 4:07 pm

Where is there any media coverage on that? I'm following the Thunder Bay cell...population 120,000 and likely in the crosshairs of a tornado...
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#17 Postby BillyBobzWildWX » Wed Jun 21, 2006 4:10 pm

A BRIEF TORNADO TOUCHDOWN IS BELIEVED TO HAVE OCCURRED NEAR SWAINS
LAKE AT 449 PM EDT.


Reported by a media spokesperson I believe.
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#18 Postby BillyBobzWildWX » Wed Jun 21, 2006 4:43 pm

Major tornado outbreak looks to be underway. Several confirmed reports now near Hillsdale, Calhoun, and Jackson counties with numerous discrete sups roaming through the area, more starting to fire now down to my south. Quite a few warnings out now.
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#19 Postby CrazyC83 » Wed Jun 21, 2006 4:58 pm

The SPC hasn't reported any tornadoes yet...
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#20 Postby CrazyC83 » Wed Jun 21, 2006 5:07 pm

http://www.760wjr.com/article.asp?id=142275 - WJR-AM Detroit (until a TV pickup becomes available)
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