Israel strikes Lebanon

[SouthFloridawx]

LEBANESE PRIME MINISTER CURRENTLY ON CNN.

[Janice]

Ok, lets not debate old wars. Lets keep this discussion to what is currently going on. We do not want debates here and we do not want this great post locked and it will, if there is bickering, etc.

Please keep the subject to the present situation.

[Derek Ortt]

France wanted to intervene into the American Revolution, because of their defeat in the French and Indian War. This would not have been possible had unconditional surrender been the outcome of that war. The same for WW2. Had Germany been forced to surrender unconditionally, WW2 could not have started

The outcome of this war should be the full unconditional surrender of Syria, Lebanon, and Iran, and NK if they decide to come to their aid of Iran (which would be moronic, IMO)

[Janice]

Ok, lets not debate old wars. Lets keep this discussion to what is currently going on. We do not want debates here and we do not want his great post locked and it will, if there is bickering, etc.

Please keep the subject to the present situation.

[Derek Ortt]

Debates, as long as we do not stray into the relm of politics are allowed here, at least I had thought so. If I'm wrong, any mod can feel free to correct me

[Rainband]

Ok, lets not debate old wars. Lets keep this discussion to what is currently going on. We do not want debates here and we do not want his great post locked and it will, if there is bickering, etc.

Please keep the subject to the present situation.

Nothing is getting out of hand thus far. Everyone is doing well. I think Derek was basing what we should do now and comparing past wars. Others were just giving their views. No harm no foul.

[Brent]

I'm watching the CBC right now, they don't have much information on those possible Canadians that were killed. I hope this isn't going to disrupt Canadian/Israeli relationships.

Canada is planning an evacuation of Canadians in Lebanon very shortly.

I doubt it will. Israel didn't deliberately target them, so it was an accident. It's happened before in war and sadly it'll happen again.

Thoughts with the families.

[conestogo_flood]

I just turned CNN on. What is going on? What is Foud Siniora talking about?

[Rainband]

Very sad news. I agree Brent. Unfortunately war is hell.

[kevin]

Well Janice, while I'm all for staying on topic I have to just correct something posted previously and won't further comment.

The settlement after WWI was the most stinging insult to any country in modern european times. The Germans lost their military, were held solely responsible for a war they did not start, lost chunks of their territory, and were treated as if they had unconditionally surrendered.

Had Germany been occupied as happened later in WWII, the allies would still have had to pull out and then when the economic depression began, there still would have been a resurgent Germany.

Instead of taking out rage on Germany, the allies should have built up moderate German institutions by not depriving them of legitimacy in the eyes of the Germans.

[x-y-no]

Well, in deference to Janice's pleas to keep this to the current events, I'll only say that unconditional surrender is a heck of a lot more difficult to compel than you may think - either in those historical examples or in any present-day cases.

That said, the Treaty of Versaille was just about as close to an unconditional surrender as Germany could get. So such "total" victory is not neccesarily all it's made out to be in the long run.

[SouthFloridawx]

This picture featured on http://www.cnn.com really shows the severity of the situation in Isreal/Lebanon. Sometimes I think people here in American forget the human aspect of war.

[Derek Ortt]

I fully understand the human aspect of war, but I also understand that war is not bloodless and its not a video game. People do die in war, and I accept that fact

[Janice]

Yes, Rainband, you are right. I was just trying to get people's attention to not challenge each others views. We can listen to each view and respect them for it. Thanks

[Audrey2Katrina]

One could make a better case for this claim, but actually I'd argue that the cause of WW2 was an all-too harsh settlement of WW1. In particular, the French insistence on punitive measures including ceding of the Rhineland industrial area (prompted by their lasting resentment over the Franco-Prussian war) led to the economic and political chaos which fostered both the Communist and National Socialist movements in Germany.

Well, I gotta tell ya, after having been a student of WWI for a couple of years, and compiler of a reference on same--you've summarized this nicely. I agree with your assessment.... with all due respect to Janice's request, I don't consider this to be bickering over a completely non-related issue, as an analogy has been drawn between the ramifications of the current crisis in Lebanon/Mid-East, and some of these wars. I do not, personally, see much of a historical comparison, (beyond deep hatred and resentment) whereas the previous "wars" were pretty much political... and the current crisis, is as much "religious" as it is political... there are "religious" precedents, but the aforemetioned wars just don't seem to fit that bill. The deep-rooted resentment/hatred of the Islamic neighbors of Israel has NEVER really allowed them to simply leave Israel alone in peace. They have, without regard to any semblance of concern for human life, consistently aided and abetted the causes of any and all terror groups--and the religious differences go SO FAR back... that it is small wonder there is no end in sight.

A2K

[Audrey2Katrina]

This picture featured on http://www.cnn.com really shows the severity of the situation in Isreal/Lebanon. Sometimes I think people here in American forget the human aspect of war.

Why? What would you have us do? The "human aspect" is on both sides of this equation.

A2K

[Rainband]

Yes, Rainband, you are right. I was just trying to get people's attention to not challenge each others views. We can listen to each view and respect them for it. Thanks

I know and I/we appreciate it Thank You

[Brent]

Canadian Foreign Minister: Eight Canadians killed in Lebanon

[SouthFloridawx]

This picture featured on http://www.cnn.com really shows the severity of the situation in Isreal/Lebanon. Sometimes I think people here in American forget the human aspect of war.

Why? What would you have us do? The "human aspect" is on both sides of this equation.

A2K

Or am I not allowed to have my own opinion on the situation. I completely understand whey Isreal thinks they need to take the actions they are taking and I also understand why Lebanon thinks that this attack is on them. I also understand that some things must be done and the human sacrifice is "necessary". Excuse me for trying to feel for the people there that are suffering.

I am sitting here on my cozy couch making opinions on the situation when the people there are the ones going through it. Does my opinion even matter on this situation, no it probably doesn't but, someone has to feel for the human component.

[Brent]

State Dept. says it's too dangerous for Americans to leave Lebanon, short of sending in troops to get them out looks like there will be no evacuation.