Israel thread #2

[stormtruth]

I wonder if the Iraqi PM has ties to Hezbollah as well? He certainly sent some love out to Hezbollah yesterday. What's going to happen when we leave Iraq. Will they turn around with their new army and attack Israel?

[Derek Ortt]

CNN need sto change its name to HNN, The Hezbollah News Network

More Hezbollah propaganda broadcast today

[stormtruth]

CNN need sto change its name to HNN, The Hezbollah News Network

More Hezbollah propaganda broadcast today

The Hezbollah leader statement is everywhere not just CNN

[Derek Ortt]

its the other peices, which only show civilian casualties in the hezbollah neighborhoods

CNN International is much worse though

[stormtruth]

its the other peices, which only show civilian casualties in the hezbollah neighborhoods

CNN International is much worse though

is the Internatinal website -> http://edition.cnn.com ?

They probably aren't being given access to areas where the dead Hezbollah peeps are.

[sunny]

From the drudgereport:

Lebanon: Two journalists kidnapped by Hizbullah released

Two British journalists earlier kidnapped by Hizbullah in Beirut have been released by Lebanese police, a local police officer said. (AFP)



They were realeased by Lebanese POLICE? Did I miss something?

[Audrey2Katrina]

I wonder if the Iraqi PM has ties to Hezbollah as well? He certainly sent some love out to Hezbollah yesterday. What's going to happen when we leave Iraq. Will they turn around with their new army and attack Israel?

That's a valid question. What with some of the prattle coming from him of late, it would give Israel pause to ponder just what the heck is going on with Iraq--from one monster to another. Again, although people don't like to bring the religion backdrop back into the picture, I believe Hezbollah is Shia (sp?), and the majority in both Iran and Iraq is also Shia... (The Sunni's under Saddam were a minority--the government actually under the political Ba'ath party).. There may be a link there. Who knows? I think I'll stop there before I really say what I think of some of the nutcases out in the ME.

A2K

[Audrey2Katrina]

They were realeased by Lebanese POLICE? Did I miss something?

Let's see... kidnapped by the Hizbullah/Hezbollah (this is as bad as Usama/Osama was) ... then released by the Lebanese "police."....

Yeah... that's the ticket!... Makes sense to me!

NOT.

A2K

[ericinmia]

Kidnapped by Hezbollah, release hours later by the Lebanon police? Either we are missing some VERY big steps or the govt. is as corrupt as many have been claiming. Remember Hezbollah holds CABINET level positions in the Lebanese govt.
-Eric

Derek i loved that comment... The HNN

[stormtruth]

I wonder if the Iraqi PM has ties to Hezbollah as well? He certainly sent some love out to Hezbollah yesterday. What's going to happen when we leave Iraq. Will they turn around with their new army and attack Israel?

That's a valid question. What with some of the prattle coming from him of late, it would give Israel pause to ponder just what the heck is going on with Iraq--from one monster to another. Again, although people don't like to bring the religion backdrop back into the picture, I believe Hezbollah is Shia (sp?), and the majority in both Iran and Iraq is also Shia... (The Sunni's under Saddam were a minority--the government actually under the political Ba'ath party).. There may be a link there. Who knows? I think I'll stop there before I really say what I think of some of the nutcases out in the ME.

A2K

Yup, Hez is Shia and so are the Iraqis in Southern Iraq -- I'd have to agree that some of them are very extreme and backwards. I think some of the shias in Southern Iraq do that scalp cutting blood ritual march thing. It was banned under Saddam but started up again over the last couple years. The Iraqi Shias are awaiting for the "hidden Imam" to rise up.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2931903.stm

Shia has always been the rigid faith of the poor and oppressed waiting for deliverance. It is seen as a messianic faith which awaits the coming of the "hidden Imam", Allah's messenger who will reverse their fortunes and herald the reign of divine justice.

[Janice]

2 Israeli Military choppers down in Northern Israel. I will get the CNN link soon...

This is all CNN is saying now.....Two Israeli Apache helicopters crash into each other over northern Israel, the IDF says, adding there are casualties.

[Janice]

U.N. chief calls for immediate cease-fire

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- U.N. chief Kofi Annan called on Thursday for an immediate end to the fighting between Israeli and Hezbollah forces.

The secretary-general blamed Hezbollah for triggering the crisis and accused it of holding Lebanon hostage with its campaign against Israel.

"While Hezbollah's actions are deplorable and, as I've said, Israel has a right to defend itself, the excessive use of force is to be condemned," Annan told the U.N. Security Council.

Annan said that the continued bombardments and the destruction of roads and airports have made it impossible for U.N. and other humanitarian groups to provide services.

He said that arranging a cease-fire would be difficult, but he called for the council to take strong action.

"Both the deliberate targeting by Hezbollah of Israeli population centers with hundreds of indiscriminate weapons and Israel's disproportionate use of force and collective punishment of the Lebanese people must stop," Annan said.

The Lebanese people "have been brutally dragged back into war," he said.

He also called for the release of the abducted Israeli troops and for Israel to allow humanitarian groups to reach civilians.

Israel has rejected calls for a cease-fire until it can push Hezbollah back from its northern frontier and retrieve the soldiers kidnapped in a cross-border raid July 12. That position is supported by the United States.

U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations John Bolton has maintained that a cease-fire is a "simplistic" solution to the current problem between Israel and the Lebanese militia.

"As we've said repeatedly, what we seek is a long-term cessation of hostilities that is part of a comprehensive change in the region and a part of a real foundation for peace," Bolton said. "But, still, no one has explained how you conduct the cease-fire with a group of terrorists."


http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/07/ ... index.html

[Lindaloo]

Trying To Get Out
Kimberly Curth
News 5 at 6pm
Jul 19, 2006


We have new information tonight about a story you heard first on News 5. We now know more about Mobile families who are stranded in Lebanon.

A Mobile man who is trapped in Southern Lebanon has contacted News 5. He's desperate to get his family and other families out of the area.

News 5 has learned Raymond Kopec is stranded with 3 families including children and the elderly as the violence in Lebanon continues to escalate. Kopec says all of the families are from Mobile and all are American citizens.

We contacted the President of the American Lebanese Club of Mobile, Kamal Constantine, about Kopec's situation. Constantine knows the Kopec family. News 5 and Constantine both spoke with Kopec on the phone.

Constantine has been trying to help American-Lebanese families from Mobile get out of Lebanon. He's concerned for the Kopec family.

Constantine asked Kopec on the phone " is there anyway you can make it to Syria?"

Kopec said "No I can't because most people who are getting killed, they are getting killed from highways. The highways not safe at all."

News 5 contacted Congressman Jo Bonner about Kopec's situation. Bonner says the State Department has confirmed the Kopec family is on the list of individuals to be evacuated. And, they are in the process of making those arrangements.



http://www.wkrg.com/servlet/Satellite?p ... ws%21local

[Janice]

Hezbollah leader scoffs at Israeli offensive

Nasrallah: Militant group 'will deliver surprises that it promises'

Thursday, July 20, 2006; Posted: 6:49 p.m. EDT (22:49 GMT)

(CNN) -- Nine days of Israeli artillery and airstrikes pounding Lebanon failed to dent Hezbollah politically or militarily, the Islamic militia's leader said Thursday, denying Israeli claims to the contrary.

"I can say at this moment, and assure without exaggeration, without psychological warfare, just facts, that the political leadership of Hezbollah has not been harmed," Sheik Hassan Nasrallah said in a Thursday interview with Arabic-language news network Al-Jazeera.

The network released excerpts of the interview, the entirety of which was scheduled to air later Thursday. (Watch Nasrallah promise Hezbollah 'surprises' -- 1:17)

The Israeli military said Wednesday that it dropped 23 tons of bombs on a bunker housing Hezbollah senior leadership. On Thursday, the military said it estimated that its days of attacks had destroyed about half of Hezbollah's military assets.

Both claims are false, Nasrallah said.

"They are unable, up until this moment, to do anything to harm us, and I assure you of that," he said. "Hezbollah has stood fast and absorbed the strike and now is going to initiate and will deliver surprises that it promises. We keep other things for ourselves that we'll do later on."

After Israel announced that it had struck the bunker, Hezbollah announced on its Al-Manar television station that Israel had hit an under-construction mosque, but caused no casualties.

Hezbollah, which is considered a terrorist organization by the United States and Israel but is lauded by many Lebanese for its social endeavors, became the target of Israeli assaults after the group's guerillas kidnapped two Israeli soldiers and killed three others during a cross-border raid July 12.

Though Israel has struck what it calls strategic points throughout Lebanon -- including airports, docks, roads, bridges and Hezbollah political offices -- Nasrallah said Thursday that his group is still operating calmly and methodically. (Watch Israeli pilots describe strikes -- 1:54)

Only "indirect negotiation" will bring about the return of the two kidnapped soldiers, he said.

"Even if the whole world comes down, they will not be able to return the two Israeli soldiers unless we have an indirect negotiation," he said.

After the soldiers' abduction, Hezbollah demanded Israel open negotiations on a prisoner exchange. Israel rejected the demand, saying it would encourage more kidnappings.

In another excerpt, Nasrallah said he is fighting for the nation of Lebanon, not just for Hezbollah.

[JTD]

think the old enemy was more likely Syria and Iran not everyday Lebanese christians and muslims

Granted, it's not your "everyday" Lebanese... but the ones in power... including the government, military, et. al... have proven repeatedly that they are little more than shills for the governments of Syria and Iran--and as such, need to be dealt with as they were never going to do anything about Hezbollah.

A2K

The present Lebanese government is one that was democratically elected after the international community helped foster elections there and one that the U.S. administration has warned the Israelis that it does not want to see toppled.

[Audrey2Katrina]

The present Lebanese government is one that was democratically elected after the international community helped foster elections there and one that the U.S. administration has warned the Israelis that it does not want to see toppled.

Wouldn't wanna bet on who the US would back if it came to open conflict would ya? That's utterly non-sequitur. If you choose to put a terrorist group in some 30 seats of your parliament, and 2 in your cabinet... you lose a LOT of legitimacy. Bottom line, all that informaiton notwithstanding--Hezbollah STARTED this... and in order to protect themselves and their citizens, Israel is going to finish it. I can have empathy for the honestly innocent Lebanese civilianry, I have little to NO use for folks, Lebanese or otherwise, who can "side" with an openly known terrorist group, bent on genocide.

A2K

[Cookiely]

CNN need sto change its name to HNN, The Hezbollah News Network

More Hezbollah propaganda broadcast today

Derek I think the problem is the total control of news being released from Israel is zilch. For protection Israel is releasing very little information to the media to protect itself and not give anything to the enemy. The info appears one sided because it is all CNN has to work with. Frankly, it makes me sick and I'm not watching anymore. I wouldn't give one minute of coverage to a terrorist organization or air time to the leaders of a terrorist organization.

[NBCintern]

CNN need sto change its name to HNN, The Hezbollah News Network

More Hezbollah propaganda broadcast today

Derek that is like saying we should change the U.S.A. to U.S.I..

[NBCintern]

Seriously. My comment was only because the discussion seems to stay on topic for the most part, then when NBCintern joins in, arguments ensue. I was hoping my little comment would be taken as a hint and we could continue, but apparently not.

Southerngale, as a potential journalist, I have to look at different views. I see stuff that you don't get to see. I am not trying to argue with anyone, but when I see far out posts I am going to respond in kind. Not everyone has to agree with what Israel is doing. How many posts have I done on this thread alone versus others? Not much at all. If you want me to leave this forum, then say so don't scurt around the issue. Just say leave. Unlike many on this board, I can take some criticizm.

[bvigal]

Hmm, Fox seems to have found some evacuees saying thanks.

Freebie Ride Still Cause for Complaint, Questions About Expenses

Thursday, July 20, 2006
Fox News
WASHINGTON — Americans evacuating Lebanon continue to arrive in the United States, and U.S. officials expect the numbers to grow in the coming days.

Five Navy vessels led by the USS Nashville, with a capacity of 1,200, are moving Americans out of the Mideast country. Four more Navy vessels will soon arrive.

"Nearly 3,000 Americans have been transported from Lebanon to date, over 2,400 in the last 24 hours, including those currently aboard the USS Nashville," Brig. Gen. Michael Barbero, deputy director for regional operations for the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said Thursday.

In addition to moving Americans from Lebanon to Cyprus, the United States will soon direct evacuees to a U.S. airbase in Incirlik, Turkey. Flights home are increasing too.

"We hope that as many as six flights will go on Friday. And those flights are now going to both BWI, or will now be going to BWI, Baltimore-Washington International Airport, as well as to Philadelphia," Assistant Secretary of State for Consular Affairs Maura Harty said.

The first round of evacuees touched down Thursday morning in Baltimore, Md. For the most part, the 138 aboard that first flight praised the U.S. evacuation plan.

"It feels wonderful to be back in the States. We just want to thank so much the State Department and the people that helped the government, the Marines, to help get us out," said one arrival at BWI.

But Americans who left Lebanon with European evacuees on non-U.S. vessels said they encountered a far rougher journey.

"We went on a cargo ship from the port of Lebanon. ... It was horrible. There were no facilities on the ship, just get out alive, that was it. We were on the ship for about 16 hours. It's a trip that takes about 4 or 5 hours," said Tom Charara from Long Beach, Calif.

A mini-media circus met the evacuees, symptomatic of a near-obsession with the fate of Americans caught in the Middle East crossfire and an evacuation that has drawn sporadic criticism.

First among the complaints was that the Orient Queen cruise liner was late on the scene. U.S. officials said it took time to contract with the Greek vessel because U.S. cruise liners don't dock in Lebanon. Others were reluctant to challenge the Israeli sea blockade of Lebanon's coast, though State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said the United States had been working with the Israeli government to ensure safe passage for evacuation ships.

Another criticism was the U.S. evacuation ships were late to arrive. U.S. officials said it had to dispatch vessels from Europe and the United States, which had to get down to the eastern Mediterranean Sea.
"I think everyone would have liked to have seen the evacuation get up to speed a little bit faster," said Sen. John Sununu, R-N.H.

Still one more criticism offered is that Americans were initially forced to sign promissory notes to repay the U.S. government up to $200 for passage from Beirut to Cyprus.

Reimbursement has been included in the State Department Basic Authorities Act since 1956. In part, the law says expenditures for evacuations can be made for "private United States citizens or third-country nationals, on a reimbursable basis to the maximum extent practicable ... except that no reimbursement under this clause shall be paid that is greater than the amount the person evacuated would have been charged for a reasonable commercial air fare immediately prior to the events giving rise to the evacuation."

"Making people sign promissory notes is impractical, sends the wrong message and its simply unnecessary," Sununu argued.

On Tuesday, Sen. Joseph Biden, D-Del., the ranking Democrat on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, sent a letter to Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice saying that the law, when it was modified in 2001, states explicitly that the secretary has "the necessary flexibility not to seek reimbursement when it is not practicable."

"I believe the current crisis in Lebanon is just such a case. With thousands of Americans at risk, the international airport closed, and danger to civilians from the ongoing military activity, which could not have been foreseen, your top priority should be the safe evacuation of American citizens. I strongly urge you to exercise the authority in the Act to not seek reimbursement from evacuees," he wrote.

Under the critical eye of lawmakers and the public, administration officials quickly changed their minds.

"The basic tenets of the law have been in place for about 50 years. It was modified five years ago. ... But Secretary Rice wanted to go the extra mile for our American citizens in need, and we have waived that fee. So there is not going to be any charge we wanted to take away any last worries that people might have, we understand they're experiencing great difficulties, so we wanted to take away those worries," McCormack told FOX News on Wednesday.

U.S. Amb. to Cyprus Ronald L. Schlicher said those evacuation expenses include the boat ride from Lebanon to Cyprus and elsewhere, facilities to stay in until they depart those intermediate stops and sometimes hotel arrangements. The cost of food and medicine are also taken care of by the government.

Schlicher said the majority of folks leaving Lebanon for Cyprus so far have been people with dual nationality, but also some "people of third nationalities, but who have like ties of marriage or kinship." The total cost of the evacuation effort has not been assessed, and officials said it would not be until the operation is complete.

In Baltimore, where the majority of evacuees arrived, the state of Maryland is footing the bill.

"We are travel agent, we are the health department, we are the bank. We are everything they need, and obviously we are very, very happy to do this," said Gov. Robert Ehrlich, adding that he's not concerned about who ultimately pays the state's expenses.

"I don't care. We are going to do what we need to do. We will work it out with the feds later. If we have to eat some of this, that's the way it is," he said.

With the waiver in force, some have said evacuated Americans should have had to take some responsibility for the costs arising from their travel to Lebanon. Prior to the latest outbreak of violence between Israel and the Lebanon-based Hezbollah, the State Department warned Americans to "carefully weigh the necessity of their travel to Lebanon."

After the violence began, the State Department also advised all Americans in Lebanon to register with the U.S. Embassy. Many Americans ignored that advice, subsequently slowing their departure.
---------------------

Dual nationals - This is a term I didn't pay much attention to before living overseas. Many people live in the country of their primary citizenship, where they have citizenship through their parents, but have been born in the U.S., thus end up with dual nationality. When a problem arises in their own country, they then exercise their rights as U.S. citizens or those with ties to U.S. citizens, to be evacuated by U.S. government.

Registration - This is a process which many U.S. tourists either ignore or have no knowledge of, where you fill out a form stating your travel plans (timeframe) to a foreign country, where you are staying, how you can be reached. In addition, due to U.S. Privacy laws, you must sign a privacy waiver if you want your family in the U.S. to be able to contact the State Department for information on you in the event of an emergency.
http://travel.state.gov/travel/tips/reg ... _1186.html

It's possible that American tourists have not been first out because they did not register, instead waiting "in line" behind the more savvy dual nationals who did.

It will be interesting to see if the next catastropic earthquake or tsunami, with hazardous conditions afterward, spurs a flurry of Congressional representatives pressuring the State Department to again waive evacuation costs.