Israel vs Hezbollah Thread #3

Chat about anything and everything... (well almost anything) Whether it be the front porch or the pot belly stove or news of interest or a topic of your liking, this is the place to post it.

Moderator: S2k Moderators

Message
Author
User avatar
stormtruth
Category 2
Category 2
Posts: 651
Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2006 4:15 pm

#201 Postby stormtruth » Sun Jul 30, 2006 3:14 pm

Brent wrote:
Janice wrote:Wow, I cannot find that. Maybe it is not on the net yet. Thanks.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14107035/


Wow. Sounds like Israel's actions are really swaying public opinion in the Middle East our way.

Several thousand people massed outside the building in downtown Beirut chanting “Death to Israel, death to America! We sacrifice our blood and souls for Lebanon!”


This is really NOT going help us turn things around in Iraq. Well, it seems as if everyone wants to forget that war now that things have gotten so bad there. :roll:
0 likes   

Stratosphere747
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 3772
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 8:34 pm
Location: Surfside Beach/Freeport Tx
Contact:

#202 Postby Stratosphere747 » Sun Jul 30, 2006 3:17 pm

They have been chanting this crap for decades....
0 likes   

User avatar
stormtruth
Category 2
Category 2
Posts: 651
Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2006 4:15 pm

#203 Postby stormtruth » Sun Jul 30, 2006 3:20 pm

Stratosphere747 wrote:They have been chanting this crap for decades....


True. But the Lebanon pres did Thank Hezbollah today. That's new. And the Shias in Southern Iraq siding with Hezbollah. That's new. Those are the Shias we went in to Iraq to save by the way. Remember them? The people we were told wanted freedom and democracy but the truth is they want an Islamic State and to cheer for terrorist groups. They are free today thanks to our actions in Iraq.
0 likes   

Stratosphere747
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 3772
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 8:34 pm
Location: Surfside Beach/Freeport Tx
Contact:

#204 Postby Stratosphere747 » Sun Jul 30, 2006 3:24 pm

Iraq is another story and there is no sense in getting into a debate about that...;)

Have not seen any story about the Lebanon prez thanking Hezbollah.
0 likes   

User avatar
stormtruth
Category 2
Category 2
Posts: 651
Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2006 4:15 pm

#205 Postby stormtruth » Sun Jul 30, 2006 3:33 pm

Stratosphere747 wrote:Iraq is another story and there is no sense in getting into a debate about that...;)

Have not seen any story about the Lebanon prez thanking Hezbollah.


Not it isn't another story. It's 100% related since the Iraqi President has given his support to Hezbollah. Also there have been pro-Hez marches in Iraq and Sadr is sending 1,500 elite fighters to Lebanon to fight Israel. So it is completely related and relevant to the Israel-Lebanon War.
0 likes   

Stratosphere747
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 3772
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 8:34 pm
Location: Surfside Beach/Freeport Tx
Contact:

#206 Postby Stratosphere747 » Sun Jul 30, 2006 3:41 pm

If we still had the PA, then I would be all for going into a more specific and at length discussion about Iraq...Otherwise, no comment.

I responded to your quote about the "chanting" which has been going on long before anything to do with Iraq.
0 likes   

User avatar
stormtruth
Category 2
Category 2
Posts: 651
Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2006 4:15 pm

#207 Postby stormtruth » Sun Jul 30, 2006 3:48 pm

Stratosphere747 wrote:If we still had the PA, then I would be all for going into a more specific and at length discussion about Iraq...Otherwise, no comment.

I responded to your quote about the "chanting" which has been going on long before anything to do with Iraq.


Well whether or not someone is to blame for the Iraq War would be political if that's what you meant but i didn't say that. I just raised the question that it might have been a mistake to free up all these Shias who don't seem very pro-Western. But the Shias in the South supporting Hezbollah is just a fact. Hez itself is a Shia organization. You would actually be ignoring the big picture if you don't talk about Iraq, which has a massive Shia population in the South.
0 likes   

JTD
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 1558
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2003 6:35 pm

#208 Postby JTD » Sun Jul 30, 2006 3:53 pm

From Talking Points Memo:

Lebanese Prime Minister Fuoad Siniora expressed his 'gratitude' to Hizbullah and its leader Hassan Nasrallah for "sacrificing their lives for the country."
During a press conference held in wake of the Qana village incident in which 55 Lebanese were killed, Siniora asked: "Is Israel's mission to wipe out the Lebanese? It seems they want to kill all of us. One of those killed today is a baby just one day old. With its aggression, Israel is encouraging extremism."

"Israel won't obtain a thing through the war," he added. "Does it believe that through war it will obtain goals? They won't obtain a thing, and the opposite is the truth. The entire Lebanese nation is united against the Israeli aggression," Siniora said.


-- TPM Reader DK
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(July 30, 2006 -- 11:17 AM EST // link)
So here, this morning, we have news of the IAF attack on the south Lebanese village of Qana, in which more than 50 people were killed, mainly women and children. The fact that Olmert, Peretz and Halutz offered an immediate apology and pledged an investigation tells you it's probably just as bad as it sounds.

Since Hizbullah doesn't broadcast news of their casualties, I think the damage Israel is doing to its fighting strength on the ground is likely being understated. But I don't see how we can argue, at this point at least, that Hizbullah as a movement doesn't seem strengthened by all this. Hopefully there's some way out of this in which the underlying problem here can be solved -- Lebanon's lack of control over the belligerent militia controlling its southern border. But it's hard to find the signs promising at this moment. And for Israel, one number tells the irreducible story. 140 rockets fell on northern Israel today. That's the highest count since July 12th when the whole thing started. And in terms of how Israel understands its own security, that's the most damning thing: even using main force, they can't stop the rocket attacks on their civilian areas.

As I said a couple days ago, the thing about this region is that things can always get worse, much worse.

And along those lines, I wanted to finish this post by flagging something ominous that keeps coming up in the Israeli press. There's a mix of public and private communications going on between Jerusalem and Damascus. Israel is trying to assure Damascus that they don't plan or want to expand the war to include Syria. Syria is clearly worried that they will and has their troops on full alert. Israel is also warning in no uncertain terms that Syria getting involved will spark massive retaliation.

But there are persistent signs that the US is egging Israel on to bring the war to Damascus.

Here's a clip from the end of an article today in the Jerusalem Post ...

[Israeli]Defense officials told the Post last week that they were receiving indications from the United States that the US would be interested in seeing Israel attack Syria.
And there are other ominous indications of the US pressing for expansion the Israelis don't seem to want.

There's more here than the US not wanting a ceasefire before meaningful changes on the ground have happened in south Lebanon. Or at least I fear there is. This started because Israel doesn't want and won't tolerate a menacing militia building up on their northern border and lashing out with occasional raids or missile attacks, especially in the context of withdrawals from other areas.

The world has sat by for six years and let Hizbullah's anamolous position in south Lebanon be Israel's problem. Whether their response was wise or just, I'll set aside for the moment. It's not about totalitarianism or Afghanistan or Iraq, at least not in an operational sense, or dingbat fantasies about Freedom and Terror. But there do appear to be forces in Washington -- seemingly the stronger ones, with Rice just a facade -- who see this whole thing as an opportunity for a grand call of double or nothing to get out of the disaster they've created in the region. Go into Syria, maybe Iran. Try to roll the table once and for all. No failed war that a new war can't solve. Condi's mindless 'birth pangs' remark wasn't just a gaffe -- or perhaps it was a gaffe in the Kinsleyan sense of inopportunely saying what you really think. That seems to be the thinking -- transformation through destabilization.
0 likes   

User avatar
stormtruth
Category 2
Category 2
Posts: 651
Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2006 4:15 pm

#209 Postby stormtruth » Sun Jul 30, 2006 4:03 pm

Iraq Minister Nouri al-Maliki refuses to back down from statement supporting Hezbollah even while here in the U.S.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,205634,00.html
0 likes   

Brent
S2K Supporter
S2K Supporter
Posts: 38105
Age: 37
Joined: Sun May 16, 2004 10:30 pm
Location: Tulsa Oklahoma
Contact:

#210 Postby Brent » Sun Jul 30, 2006 4:09 pm

Reuters: Israel agrees to 48-hour halt in Aerial Activity to allow civilians to evacuate and to provide aid.
0 likes   
#neversummer

Derek Ortt

#211 Postby Derek Ortt » Sun Jul 30, 2006 4:10 pm

we're egging Israel on to start a war with Syria?

we seem to be caving to the calls for ease fire before it is over
0 likes   

User avatar
feederband
S2K Supporter
S2K Supporter
Posts: 3423
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 6:21 pm
Location: Lakeland Fl

#212 Postby feederband » Sun Jul 30, 2006 4:14 pm

Brent wrote:Reuters: Israel agrees to 48-hour halt in Aerial Activity to allow civilians to evacuate and to provide aid.


Kind of smart actually...This will let more civilians out...And the Hezballoh will come out of their hiding maybe even move some of their missles around and Israel will see them doing this....Then in 48 hours..Israel will probably let lose...
0 likes   

rainstorm

#213 Postby rainstorm » Sun Jul 30, 2006 4:15 pm

israel fought a half war. this is a big victory for iran, syria, and hezbollah
0 likes   

User avatar
feederband
S2K Supporter
S2K Supporter
Posts: 3423
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 6:21 pm
Location: Lakeland Fl

#214 Postby feederband » Sun Jul 30, 2006 4:17 pm

Don't think its over yet....I also don't think Hezballoh will stop firing missles into Israel...

Now its only a 24 hour...
0 likes   

Brent
S2K Supporter
S2K Supporter
Posts: 38105
Age: 37
Joined: Sun May 16, 2004 10:30 pm
Location: Tulsa Oklahoma
Contact:

#215 Postby Brent » Sun Jul 30, 2006 4:19 pm

feederband wrote:Don't think its over yet....I also don't think Hezballoh will stop firing missles into Israel...

Now its only a 24 hour...


Israel has also said that if they see an attack coming or are attacked within this "window", they will strike back against it.

and it's defintely not over. This only applies to Southern Lebanon, Beirut and other parts could still be bombed.
0 likes   
#neversummer

User avatar
Audrey2Katrina
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 4252
Age: 75
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2005 10:39 pm
Location: Metaire, La.

#216 Postby Audrey2Katrina » Sun Jul 30, 2006 6:42 pm

Wow. Sounds like Israel's actions are really swaying public opinion in the Middle East our way.


Run a war based on "public opinion" and you've already LOST.

A2K
0 likes   
Flossy 56 Audrey 57 Hilda 64* Betsy 65* Camille 69* Edith 71 Carmen 74 Bob 79 Danny 85 Elena 85 Juan 85 Florence 88 Andrew 92*, Opal 95, Danny 97, Georges 98*, Isidore 02, Lili 02, Ivan 04, Cindy 05*, Dennis 05, Katrina 05*, Gustav 08*, Isaac 12*, Nate 17, Barry 19, Cristobal 20, Marco, 20, Sally, 20, Zeta 20*, Claudette 21 IDA* 21 Francine *24

User avatar
stormtruth
Category 2
Category 2
Posts: 651
Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2006 4:15 pm

#217 Postby stormtruth » Sun Jul 30, 2006 6:51 pm

Audrey2Katrina wrote:
Wow. Sounds like Israel's actions are really swaying public opinion in the Middle East our way.


Run a war based on "public opinion" and you've already LOST.

A2K


Well with public opinion moving more against US because of the Israel bombings it makes it much much more likely that we will be unable to win in Iraq. You can't win a war in a country you are occupying when "public opinion" becomes overwhelmingly against you. You can't win if the insurgency just keeps growing. This is all bad news for the U.S.
0 likes   

User avatar
Audrey2Katrina
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 4252
Age: 75
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2005 10:39 pm
Location: Metaire, La.

#218 Postby Audrey2Katrina » Sun Jul 30, 2006 6:56 pm

israel fought a half war. this is a big victory for iran, syria, and hezbollah


It ain't over till it's over, in the words of the immortal Yogi.

And I don't see no fat lady approaching the podium either.

A2K
0 likes   
Flossy 56 Audrey 57 Hilda 64* Betsy 65* Camille 69* Edith 71 Carmen 74 Bob 79 Danny 85 Elena 85 Juan 85 Florence 88 Andrew 92*, Opal 95, Danny 97, Georges 98*, Isidore 02, Lili 02, Ivan 04, Cindy 05*, Dennis 05, Katrina 05*, Gustav 08*, Isaac 12*, Nate 17, Barry 19, Cristobal 20, Marco, 20, Sally, 20, Zeta 20*, Claudette 21 IDA* 21 Francine *24

User avatar
stormtruth
Category 2
Category 2
Posts: 651
Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2006 4:15 pm

#219 Postby stormtruth » Sun Jul 30, 2006 6:59 pm

Audrey2Katrina wrote:
israel fought a half war. this is a big victory for iran, syria, and hezbollah


It ain't over till it's over, in the words of the immortal Yogi.

And I don't see no fat lady approaching the podium either.

A2K


Let's hope not because we need to fight as many enemies as possible all at once so that we stretch ourselves out really thin and lose everywhere. We want to make sure that we don't get one single country under control before start a conflict somewhere else :roll:
0 likes   

User avatar
Audrey2Katrina
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 4252
Age: 75
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2005 10:39 pm
Location: Metaire, La.

#220 Postby Audrey2Katrina » Sun Jul 30, 2006 7:05 pm

Well with public opinion moving more against US because of the Israel bombings it makes it much much more likely that we will be unable to win in Iraq. You can't win a war in a country you are occupying when "public opinion" becomes overwhelmingly against you. You can't win if the insurgency just keeps growing. This is all bad news for the U.S.


Okay... so WHAT would you have us do, ST? Instead of just complaining about this, that, or the other thing, how about a realistic suggestion about what we should do? It's not us fighting the COWARDS in S. Lebanon--it's Israel, and they DO have the right to defend their nation-- or don't they? The bottom line is this. It's real easy to sit here and complain and complain about mean ol' Israel simply doing what ANY sensible nation would do in a similar situation surrounded on all sides by terrorists. Instead of all the griping; why not offer a suggestion about what to do? Tell Israel they MUST stop? What purpose would that serve other than to embolden the very people determined to push these people into the sea?

I said it before, and NOBODY has offered a respectable answer yet: Given the SAME kind of coverage of the US and Allied bombing over Germany (And Japan) in WWII, would you have been equally outraged, and suggest that the Allies CEASE? Because I can guarantee you, that if that mentality had prevailed during WWII, we'd STILL be dealing with the Third Reich. War is ugly... very ugly, and it's got to be made to appear that way in the hopes that it will so revulse people it will become a rare event. Make it this game of "tag" and it will drag on ad-infinitum and the ultimate toll many times worse.

A2K
0 likes   


Return to “Off Topic”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests