Israel vs Hezbollah Thread #3

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Audrey2Katrina
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#281 Postby Audrey2Katrina » Mon Jul 31, 2006 7:19 pm

Surprised that it took Israel this long to commit a more pronounced ground attack. Most likely they bought into the idea of a air campaign doing the job.


Yep, I think they're finally going to go in and just clean up some areas; which is what they should've done all along. I think it had a lot to do with battling egos between military leaders--those of the school that thought it could be won by air power alone--and those whe KNEW otherwise.

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Last edited by Audrey2Katrina on Mon Jul 31, 2006 8:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#282 Postby Brent » Mon Jul 31, 2006 7:28 pm

The Syrian President has told his Army to go on higher alert...
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#283 Postby M_0331 » Mon Jul 31, 2006 7:41 pm

I have attacked heavily fortified layered bunker complexes
with fellow Marines. The Israel soldiers face one of the most
horrible things they will ever do. No amount of bombing can
push back the enemy. I have seen too many men be killed
on both sides. Only grunts(boots on the ground) can take the
12 miles back at extreme cost. May God be with them in the
coming battle.

Semper Fi
RVN 1968 Eddie
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#284 Postby Audrey2Katrina » Mon Jul 31, 2006 8:19 pm

I have seen too many men be killed
on both sides. Only grunts(boots on the ground) can take the
12 miles back at extreme cost. May God be with them in the
coming battle.



I agree, both in premise and conclusion. Well stated.

A2K
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#285 Postby Brent » Tue Aug 01, 2006 6:35 pm

Israel escalated the ground war in a huge way...

BOURJ AL-MULOUK, Lebanon - Israel launched a major attack deep into Lebanon, and Hezbollah said its guerrillas were fighting Israeli commandos on the ground near the eastern city of Baalbek near Syria early Wednesday.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14128276/
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#286 Postby Audrey2Katrina » Tue Aug 01, 2006 7:03 pm

Good for Israel... success in clearing out the cowardly terrorists that have tried to make this region their launching point for terror in Northern Israel.

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#287 Postby Derek Ortt » Thu Aug 03, 2006 3:05 pm

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/08/ ... index.html

Hezbollah threatens Tel Aviv, and Israel threats destruction of Lebanese infrastructure
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#288 Postby nystate » Thu Aug 03, 2006 3:09 pm

Something that has been noted over the duration of this conflict; when Nasrallah threatens to do something, it happens. They can either launch a long-range rocket into Tel Aviv (which is iffy at best), or they can do a bomb attack inside the city (much harder to carry out). Either approach will escalate the situation seriously.

I would be very worried in Tel Aviv right now! Hopefully the IDF will intercept whatever plot is out there before it can be carried out.

Also, I read today (I think in Newsday) that OBL's son has made his way into Lebanon to plan terror attacks against Israel! Not good news for sure!
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#289 Postby Derek Ortt » Thu Aug 03, 2006 3:26 pm

I wouldn't want to be in Lebanon though if the attack was carried out. There may be a severe response in return (infrastructure bombing is what we did in the Kosovo War, and we all know that many civilians died as a result)

Israel's policy should be the unconditional surrender of Lebanon at this point. (Yes, I know what is involved in getting UC, we saw it to an extent in 1999 in Kosovo) The lebanese government has showed itself to be in bed with hezbollah, so treat them as the enemy that they are
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#290 Postby Audrey2Katrina » Thu Aug 03, 2006 4:37 pm

Well today marked some 8 dead Israeli civilians... the difference being they're not parading them in front of every camera available for propaganda purposes. They're doing what they need to do--eradicate evil in their back yard.

OBL's son has made his way into Lebanon to plan terror attacks against Israel! Not good news for sure!


If Israel finds out his whereabouts, the very worst news will be his... and I dearly hope and pray they do.

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#291 Postby M_0331 » Thu Aug 03, 2006 7:41 pm

Derek Ortt wrote:I wouldn't want to be in Lebanon though if the attack was carried out. There may be a severe response in return (infrastructure bombing is what we did in the Kosovo War, and we all know that many civilians died as a result)

Israel's policy should be the unconditional surrender of Lebanon at this point. (Yes, I know what is involved in getting UC, we saw it to an extent in 1999 in Kosovo) The lebanese government has showed itself to be in bed with hezbollah, so treat them as the enemy that they are


Tactically, IDF must go deeper than the "12 mile safe zone". The cheap 122mm rockets that are fired daily have a range of 18 -20 miles. The use of FROG(Fly right over ground) missiles(guided +_ 1/2 mile) are tactical battlefield weapons to normally attack your enemy 30- 80 miles behind the front lines to disrupt supply areas, etc. Hezbollah will return when the IDF return to pre-war positions. An UN/NATO combat force with unrestricted rules of engagement to occupy a 25 mile zone between Hezbollah and Israel is just not going to last, even if such force is put in place. Hezbollah can not be completely destroyed because it is idealist extremist group based in Syria/Iran. Israel must maintain a 25 mile standoff buffer.

<Eddie>
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#292 Postby Audrey2Katrina » Fri Aug 04, 2006 11:58 am

Ishai David (of the Israeli IDF) just reported by telephone that over 400 Hezbollah fighters have been killed in the fighting in the last few days... don't ever think Israel isn't putting a major "hurt" on these terrorists, and it's the biggest reason they are launching such a huge propaganda campaign--they're feeling the hurt bigtime--and it couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of hate/terror mongers.

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#293 Postby Stephanie » Fri Aug 04, 2006 12:01 pm

Audrey2Katrina wrote:Ishai David (of the Israeli IDF) just reported by telephone that over 400 Hezbollah fighters have been killed in the fighting in the last few days... don't ever think Israel isn't putting a major "hurt" on these terrorists, and it's the biggest reason they are launching such a huge propaganda campaign--they're feeling the hurt bigtime--and it couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of hate/terror mongers.

A2K


I agree.
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#294 Postby Derek Ortt » Fri Aug 04, 2006 12:27 pm

CNN reporting 57 Lebanese buried under rubble.

Israel is turning up the heat big time. Preemptive active action for Hezbollah threatening Tel Aviv?
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#295 Postby Scorpion » Fri Aug 04, 2006 12:52 pm

This is not good for Israel. It will only provoke more hate for them by the Muslim world. Soon foriegn fighters will infilitrate Lebanon and fight for their cause.
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#296 Postby JTD » Fri Aug 04, 2006 12:57 pm

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060804/wl ... lahweapons

Iran to supply Surface-to-Air Missiles to Hezbollah
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#297 Postby Derek Ortt » Fri Aug 04, 2006 1:25 pm

This is no way will make things worse

MOST OF THE ARABS ALREADY HATE ISRAEL FOR MERELY EXISTING
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#298 Postby M_0331 » Fri Aug 04, 2006 1:40 pm

Audrey2Katrina wrote:Ishai David (of the Israeli IDF) just reported by telephone that over 400 Hezbollah fighters have been killed in the fighting in the last few days... don't ever think Israel isn't putting a major "hurt" on these terrorists, and it's the biggest reason they are launching such a huge propaganda campaign--they're feeling the hurt bigtime--and it couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of hate/terror mongers.

A2K


First off, I totally support IDF. On body count in military intelligence, it is divided by four. Every body- civilian or enemy is counted. every blood trail is counted. Every " I hit him hard but he ran off" is counted. I personally was in a Marine battalion that had 80% losses in two weeks but we were in full force and fighting in one week. Body is not needed, just kill every enemy you see and then shoot again to be sure, then body count is not needed as something to encourage folks back home.
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#299 Postby stormie_skies » Fri Aug 04, 2006 2:08 pm

Scorpion wrote:This is not good for Israel. It will only provoke more hate for them by the Muslim world. Soon foriegn fighters will infilitrate Lebanon and fight for their cause.


I agree with you that this isn't turning out well for Israel, but not necessarily for the reason you describe. Hate for Israel in the ME is as much a political tool as anything else - at least outside of directly threatened areas like the OT and south Lebanon, where its a life or death matter. Its increase or decrease does more to affect regional politics than it ever will to affect Israel - who, after all, are working with far and away the most superior resources, from weapondry to cash.

The issue of foreign fighters is an interesting and complicated one. The vast majority of the radicals Israel & the US have dealt with in the past have been Sunni Wahhabi, groups who have been loathe to include Hizbollah as "one of them" due to religious differences (Hizbollah, for those who don't know, is a Shi'ite nationalist party). In many ways I suspect Hizbollah started this whole thing both to show the Sunnis up and to gain their respect and support - how could they not support Hizbollah, after all, when it is Hizbollah actually taking Israel to the mat? And there are some significant signs that it has worked: Bin Laden threw his support behind Hizbollah more than a week ago, and that would have been practically unthinkable before.

Still, I don't see the Sunni radicals throwing much more than verbal support into the ring at this time. I would bet that they are still too wary of the Shia to provide material support ... they want to fight the West, but they want to do it THEIR way, and their way most certainly does NOT include a prominent place of glory for the Shia.

However, I DO think that Hizbollah is getting and will continue to get increased material and hands-on support from the Shi'ite minority in the region - most notably from Iran and Iraq. This action has given Hizbollah great status in the region - they are now the Arab army that has fended off the IDF the longest, and I suspect as we head into occupation they will turn to the same tactics the Sunnis have been using against us in Iraq - and we've all seen how that has turned out. Its a huge power play by a religious minority - why do you think Egypt and Saudi opposed it at first?

What I fear most, though, is what I said in another thread: that Ayatollah Sistani will turn his Shi'ite following against the US in Iraq as a result of our "failure" to force a ceasefire. That will bring a quick and bloody end to the "Iraqi experiment"....
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#300 Postby stormie_skies » Fri Aug 04, 2006 2:45 pm

Audrey2Katrina wrote:Ishai David (of the Israeli IDF) just reported by telephone that over 400 Hezbollah fighters have been killed in the fighting in the last few days... don't ever think Israel isn't putting a major "hurt" on these terrorists, and it's the biggest reason they are launching such a huge propaganda campaign--they're feeling the hurt bigtime--and it couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of hate/terror mongers.

A2K


This all depends on what you consider "hurt", though - because victory for Hizbollah and victory for Israel are NOT the same things.

First, you have to recognize that Hizbollah is NOT the same kind of organization as, say, al Queda. There are fundamental differences in both their politics (al Queda is a Wahhabi radical cult, Hizbollah is a Shi'ite nationalist party formed to remove Israel from Shi'ite territory in the 80's) and in their organizational structure (al Queda is loosely knit and based on abstract ideas, Hizbollah is a bona fide nationalist political organization, with all the roots that go along with it). al Queda operations are easily disrupted - cells are small and easily extracted, and intelligence can go a long way towards discovering them. Hizbollah, on the other hand, is woven into the fabric of the Shi'ite community - you will not kill Hizbollah unless you kill pretty much all the Shia, something that is not a politically or morally feasible goal, obviously.

So if we know that Hizbollah in some way shape or form will survive - then what?

The most Israel can hope for, IMO, is to destroy as many Hizbollah rockets as possible and then usher in a forceful international army to act as a buffer to prevent future strikes. They could have done that - but they have chosen to go much, much further. And at this point they are only playing to Hizbollah's advantage.

All Hizbollah has to do to win in the eyes of the Arab world is survive. Truth is, they have already won in many ways: they have the respect they wanted both from the Arab street and from other Arab non-state actors and they have inflicted damage on Israel and the IDF while holding their own to an extent (thats more than any other Arab army has been able to do). Now Israel is making the (IMO VERY DUMB) mistake of trying to reoccupy Lebanon, which will give Hizbollah the opportunity to fight the IDF the same way the Sunnis in Iraq fight us. They will continue to inflict damages on the IDF and make them look weaker and weaker in the eyes of the world, trapping them in Lebanon and forcing them to face casualties or to retreat.

Frankly, I don't know how Israel could get out now and still save adequate face.... but Hizbollah will survive, regardless of the casualties they sustain.
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