Judge rules Flood Damage not covered by Insurer in Katrina

[tgenius]

I am rather not surprised by this, considering the amount of people that the insurers would have filing policies, but it is sad for those who lost everything in katrina

http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/08/15/katri ... index.html

[JonathanBelles]

bull crap!!! they diserve it!

[dwg71]

bull crap!!! they diserve it!

Not sure if I follow, is the ruling BS?

[JonathanBelles]

yes! lol

[O Town]

There is the same topic posted in Recovery and Aftermath.

http://www.storm2k.org/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=88249

[Rieyeuxs]

I think this is going to be a nightmare. While I have sympathy for those who lost everything, only the lawyers are going to profit off of this ruling. When your looking at a house that has been basically leveled, how the heck is anyone going to determine what damage percentage was wind vs water? It'll go to court, rates will raise even further, and that $1200 is only a deposit on the lawyer's retainer.

I never thought I'd take the insurer's side, but I have learned to READ the policies and not just taking an agent's word before signing on the dotted line. I know there'll be a ton of protests about this, but if you live on the coast within a 100 year floodplain, it's basically your fault if you don't buy flood insurance. If you roll the dice and wing it, sooner or later snake-eyes will come up.

And yes I have lived on the coast (Charleston) and got major sticker shock with the insurance.

[Lindaloo]

FYI, Dickie Scruggs went pro bono on these cases. So please do not say they will profit off a disaster like this.

[wayoutfront]

Dickie made 1.4 BILLION on his frivolous tobacco lawsuits

Bet he wasn't going to forgoe his % on the class suit that was going to follow if this judge ruled for them.

He selected his first clients to got to court very carefully.

Maybe he can go someplace and get a jury to hear one of these cases. Atleast he might win with an emotional plea on one these until it gets to the appeals court and gets overturned.

[Lindaloo]

Dickie made 1.4 BILLION on his frivolous tobacco lawsuits

Bet he wasn't going to forgoe his % on the class suit that was going to follow if this judge ruled for them.

He selected his first clients to got to court very carefully.

Maybe he can go someplace and get a jury to hear one of these cases. At least he might win with an emotional plea on one these until it gets to the appeals court and gets overturned.

Frivolous? LOL! That is a bold statement coming from an insurance adjuster! Most greedy people hate lawyers. They are scared that they may take their money away from them.

I doubt that this will be appealed. The judge left the door open for him to at least get money for the wind damage he did receive. If the greedy insurance industry had their ducks in a row and they had the education to distinguish what is flood and what is wind damage, then maybe there would not have been a conflict. You can't take a guess and pay what you want to pay.

And that is just so laughable about how State Farm is trying to save their image now. What a dang joke! Too little too late for them.

[wayoutfront]

Greedy?

I pay Insurance just like everyone else does. I don't want my Rates to go up to pay for your non covered damages and Dickies Lear Jet because Dickie can convince the Jury someone was a nice person.


I am adjuster and know what my policy covers.. I live on a lake and KNOW my homeowners is not paying if the lake floods but I also knew that years ago when I lived on the beack and read my policy the first time

What is so difficult about that to comprehend.

[Lindaloo]

Sounds like you are jealous. Aw don't worry about it, you live on a lake, you are comfortable. Your job pays for your Leer Jet, your gas and everything else. Hopefully this never happens to you.

So now, since you are an adjuster, you are smarter than those of us who aren't an adjuster? Hoo boy!! Hey everybody who suffered from Katrina and Rita, go get a job with the insurance industry, it will make you smart and they will teach you how to read. WOO HOO!!!

I can only comprehend what actually makes sense.

[Alladin]

I live on the Florida Gulf coast. I have lived in coastal Florida for over 30 years. During that time, I have always made sure that my houses have been well away from any flood area. I do not have flood insurance. After Ivan my house suffered minor wind damage. Today I looked at my annual homeowners’ insurance premium from 2003 and it was $253.00. Now that same coverage costs me $1,823.00 and next year it will cost me $2,789.00. Why?

I don’t blame the insurance companies. I blame the people that build their houses too close to the water and then sue their insurance companies for damages when they get flooded. It’s these people that have driven up my insurance costs. For example, in my area we have people that have built their houses on barrier islands and insurance companies write policies for them. I remember seeing a house after Ivan that had clearly suffered extensive damage from the storm surge. The owner had spray painted a message on his garage door, “Where are you State Farm?”

Obviously this homeowner expected State Farm to take care of him and his house. This homeowner did not have flood insurance (he owned the house outright). He found out that his insured losses were minimal. Damn if he didn’t hire an attorney and sue State Farm. State Farm will have to pay a lot of money to defend the case until a judge finally tells this homeowner that State Farm is not liable for storm surge damage. In the meantime, my insurance costs go up.

Also, the State of Florida created Citizens Insurance several years ago. It’s the homeowners’ insurance company of last resort in Florida. When private companies won’t insure your property then Citizens insures you. Through an unfortunate administrative oversight, Citizens did not charge high enough premiums to cover the losses they incurred as a result of the hurricanes in 2004 and 2005. Guess who gets to bail them out? All residents of Florida that have homeowners’ insurance with private companies now pay an extra premium amount to bail out Citizens Insurance.

The real kicker is that people who suffered losses due to storm surge are rebuilding their houses in the exact same locations! They don’t learn from their mistakes and as a result I end up suffering for it with higher insurance premiums. Everyone that pays for homeowners’ insurance in the state of Florida is paying for their mistakes too.

[Lindaloo]

Obviously you are not well versed on this matter. No one has asked anybody to pay for anything that was not covered.

And please do not blame your insurance woes on the people living in coastal areas. I was not and am not in a flood plain but my home was flooded. I bought flood insurance just in case.

The point is (which you missed entirely) is that entire homes were reduced to slabs. How can you possibly know which was which? There needs to be some sort of guidelines in place for that. Second, split level homes were damaged on the second floor, but the water line did not even go that high. Those adjusters were just estimating damages and the insurance companies would only pay so much out AND depreciate property to get out of paying. They also claimed that most of the damage was from flood. Maybe so on the bottom floor but there was no flood on the second floor. Do you get that now?

How do you know the man did not have flood. That is kind of condescending coming from someone that blames others for the cost of their insurance going up. Look around you, we all are paying high premiums. You need to blame the insurance companies because they are in the direction of corporate greed and playing in the stock market. If not for your money, they would not be in business nor would they be able to invest or profit, no matter what the adjuster above will tell you. Regulations being put on the insurance industry will lower your premiums. They have gotten away with it for so long and they are now out of control.


And for your bashing of people rebuilding on the coasts quite frankly, that is not any of your concern. You should move to California or Tornado Alley. You will find something to gripe about there too. You take the good with the bad anywhere you live. Don't be blaming US for your misfortunes when we are paying the same thing you are.

[Frank P]

I live on the Florida Gulf coast. I have lived in coastal Florida for over 30 years. During that time, I have always made sure that my houses have been well away from any flood area. I do not have flood insurance. After Ivan my house suffered minor wind damage. Today I looked at my annual homeowners’ insurance premium from 2003 and it was $253.00. Now that same coverage costs me $1,823.00 and next year it will cost me $2,789.00. Why?

I don’t blame the insurance companies. I blame the people that build their houses too close to the water and then sue their insurance companies for damages when they get flooded. It’s these people that have driven up my insurance costs. For example, in my area we have people that have built their houses on barrier islands and insurance companies write policies for them. I remember seeing a house after Ivan that had clearly suffered extensive damage from the storm surge. The owner had spray painted a message on his garage door, “Where are you State Farm?”

Obviously this homeowner expected State Farm to take care of him and his house. This homeowner did not have flood insurance (he owned the house outright). He found out that his insured losses were minimal. Damn if he didn’t hire an attorney and sue State Farm. State Farm will have to pay a lot of money to defend the case until a judge finally tells this homeowner that State Farm is not liable for storm surge damage. In the meantime, my insurance costs go up.

Also, the State of Florida created Citizens Insurance several years ago. It’s the homeowners’ insurance company of last resort in Florida. When private companies won’t insure your property then Citizens insures you. Through an unfortunate administrative oversight, Citizens did not charge high enough premiums to cover the losses they incurred as a result of the hurricanes in 2004 and 2005. Guess who gets to bail them out? All residents of Florida that have homeowners’ insurance with private companies now pay an extra premium amount to bail out Citizens Insurance.

The real kicker is that people who suffered losses due to storm surge are rebuilding their houses in the exact same locations! They don’t learn from their mistakes and as a result I end up suffering for it with higher insurance premiums. Everyone that pays for homeowners’ insurance in the state of Florida is paying for their mistakes too.

That's BS.... I'm spending 40,000 just to get my house above the Katrina surge.... and practically everyone I know that is rebuilding is doing something similar.... we might be building back in the same locations because that is where WE WANT TO LIVE.... but at least most everyone is trying to get their houses elevated as best they can afford... and that 40K will put my house above the Katrina surge... which I hope to heck I never have to experience again... there is the potential for disasters to occur all across the US... it just doesn't ONLY happen in the coastal areas...

[stormcrow]

It is hard seperating emotions from fact. The wind policies do not cover storm surge no mater how many multi millionaire tort kings want to cash in. As a independent adjuster, the more coverage the better, I wish you all had flood. I get paid for writing estimates. When I have to deny a claim, I barely make expences. But if it ain't covered it ain't. I expect we will see NCIP (catastrophe) set up like flood.

[Lindaloo]

No one said anything about that crow. It is easy for you to step in here and say all that from behind the computer screen. Read and learn.

You all need to get educated when making your estimates when it comes to slabs.

[Alladin]

What we are working toward is to limit homeowners’ insurance coverage in high risk areas such as barrier islands and storm surge areas. As a result of Katrina’s storm surge, 92% of Pascagoula, MS was flooded. Therefore it is now and it has always been a very high risk area for flood and wind damage.

Risk assessment has been sorely lacking in homeowners’ insurance policies as demonstrated by the recent storms. Auto insurance companies regularly raise premiums if you have a poor driving record, drive a sports car, live in a high crime area or commute in a high accident area. Auto insurance companies often refuse to write policies to high risk customers.

Life insurance companies raise their rates and reduce benefits based upon age and health factors. Health insurance companies often exclude preexisting conditions from policy coverage. It’s just unreasonable to expect a health insurance company to pay for a liver transplant in an alcoholic.

Let’s not socialize homeowners’ insurance as the federal government has done with flood insurance. Everyone is entitled to flood insurance as long as they pay the premium. Frankly, flood insurance does nothing but encourage people to build houses in high risk areas. The National Flood Insurance Program needs to be abolished.

Companies that write homeowners’ insurance need to remain private (unlike Citizens in Florida). They need to be able to discriminate on the basis of risk. Amortizing risk is the fundamental definition of insurance.

[wayoutfront]

I live on the Florida Gulf coast. I have lived in coastal Florida for over 30 years. During that time, I have always made sure that my houses have been well away from any flood area. I do not have flood insurance. After Ivan my house suffered minor wind damage. Today I looked at my annual homeowners’ insurance premium from 2003 and it was $253.00. Now that same coverage costs me $1,823.00 and next year it will cost me $2,789.00. Why?

I don’t blame the insurance companies. I blame the people that build their houses too close to the water and then sue their insurance companies for damages when they get flooded. It’s these people that have driven up my insurance costs. For example, in my area we have people that have built their houses on barrier islands and insurance companies write policies for them. I remember seeing a house after Ivan that had clearly suffered extensive damage from the storm surge. The owner had spray painted a message on his garage door, “Where are you State Farm?”

Obviously this homeowner expected State Farm to take care of him and his house. This homeowner did not have flood insurance (he owned the house outright). He found out that his insured losses were minimal. Damn if he didn’t hire an attorney and sue State Farm. State Farm will have to pay a lot of money to defend the case until a judge finally tells this homeowner that State Farm is not liable for storm surge damage. In the meantime, my insurance costs go up.

Also, the State of Florida created Citizens Insurance several years ago. It’s the homeowners’ insurance company of last resort in Florida. When private companies won’t insure your property then Citizens insures you. Through an unfortunate administrative oversight, Citizens did not charge high enough premiums to cover the losses they incurred as a result of the hurricanes in 2004 and 2005. Guess who gets to bail them out? All residents of Florida that have homeowners’ insurance with private companies now pay an extra premium amount to bail out Citizens Insurance.

The real kicker is that people who suffered losses due to storm surge are rebuilding their houses in the exact same locations! They don’t learn from their mistakes and as a result I end up suffering for it with higher insurance premiums. Everyone that pays for homeowners’ insurance in the state of Florida is paying for their mistakes too.

That's BS.... I'm spending 40,000 just to get my house above the Katrina surge.... and practically everyone I know that is rebuilding is doing something similar.... we might be building back in the same locations because that is where WE WANT TO LIVE.... but at least most everyone is trying to get their houses elevated as best they can afford... and that 40K will put my house above the Katrina surge... which I hope to heck I never have to experience again... their is the potential for disasters to occur all across the US... it just doesn't ONLY happen in the coastal areas...

Guess you aren't aware of NFIP Increased cost of compliance coverage OR you didn't have flood coverage OR yu are spending more than the 30 grand available through the flood policy to meet the flood hazard plan for your area

Any way for the thousands that are getting the 30 grand

Your welcome
from The taxpayer
http://www.fema.gov/business/nfip/icc.shtm

[Lindaloo]

What an intelligent reply from you wayoutfront. My gosh I hope nothing EVER happens to you or your family by way of a catastrophic natural disaster. Just goes to show you, you are not sympathetic to anyone or anything. So, you work in the right industry. Good thing I was raised right or I would still be just like you.

[Frank P]

I live on the Florida Gulf coast. I have lived in coastal Florida for over 30 years. During that time, I have always made sure that my houses have been well away from any flood area. I do not have flood insurance. After Ivan my house suffered minor wind damage. Today I looked at my annual homeowners’ insurance premium from 2003 and it was $253.00. Now that same coverage costs me $1,823.00 and next year it will cost me $2,789.00. Why?

I don’t blame the insurance companies. I blame the people that build their houses too close to the water and then sue their insurance companies for damages when they get flooded. It’s these people that have driven up my insurance costs. For example, in my area we have people that have built their houses on barrier islands and insurance companies write policies for them. I remember seeing a house after Ivan that had clearly suffered extensive damage from the storm surge. The owner had spray painted a message on his garage door, “Where are you State Farm?"

Obviously this homeowner expected State Farm to take care of him and his house. This homeowner did not have flood insurance (he owned the house outright). He found out that his insured losses were minimal. Damn if he didn’t hire an attorney and sue State Farm. State Farm will have to pay a lot of money to defend the case until a judge finally tells this homeowner that State Farm is not liable for storm surge damage. In the meantime, my insurance costs go up.

Also, the State of Florida created Citizens Insurance several years ago. It’s the homeowners’ insurance company of last resort in Florida. When private companies won’t insure your property then Citizens insures you. Through an unfortunate administrative oversight, Citizens did not charge high enough premiums to cover the losses they incurred as a result of the hurricanes in 2004 and 2005. Guess who gets to bail them out? All residents of Florida that have homeowners’ insurance with private companies now pay an extra premium amount to bail out Citizens Insurance.

The real kicker is that people who suffered losses due to storm surge are rebuilding their houses in the exact same locations! They don’t learn from their mistakes and as a result I end up suffering for it with higher insurance premiums. Everyone that pays for homeowners’ insurance in the state of Florida is paying for their mistakes too.

That's BS.... I'm spending 40,000 just to get my house above the Katrina surge.... and practically everyone I know that is rebuilding is doing something similar.... we might be building back in the same locations because that is where WE WANT TO LIVE.... but at least most everyone is trying to get their houses elevated as best they can afford... and that 40K will put my house above the Katrina surge... which I hope to heck I never have to experience again... their is the potential for disasters to occur all across the US... it just doesn't ONLY happen in the coastal areas...

Guess you aren't aware of NFIP Increased cost of compliance coverage OR you didn't have flood coverage OR yu are spending more than the 30 grand available through the flood policy to meet the flood hazard plan for your area

Any way for the thousands that are getting the 30 grand

Your welcome
from The taxpayer
http://www.fema.gov/business/nfip/icc.shtm

wayout you don't know diddlysquat....

the ICC does NOT APPLY to homes that were outside the flood zone... and my HOME was OUTSIDE the FLOOD ZONE... don't you think I didn't try to get that 30K ICC...hell yeah I tried... but the NFIP said TOO BAD... I DID NOT QUALIFY because I was outside the flood zone.... so yeah I have heard about it ad nausium ... and I did have flood insurance, even though I didn't need to have it.... and I did have home owners insurance... and before the storm I was paying 50 dollars a yard for concrete.... now its 90 bucks... so the insurance I had does not account for the escalated building and labor prices that contractors and suppliers are charging post Katrina...

to make matters even worse my city did not adopt the new FEMA elevations, which if adapted, I would have qualified for the NFIP ICC 30K.... but even if they decide to adopt it later or, which I would think they would have to do, the NFIP said it is not retroactive... so if you started building TOO BAD... well I'm tired of living in this tiny shoe box and I'm building me a new house WITHOUT the NFIP ICC money... because they won't give it to me, and believe you me... I really tried to get it to...

Now you know diddlysquat