T.S Florence,Analysis,Sat Pics,Models Thread #3

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fci
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#401 Postby fci » Tue Sep 05, 2006 11:52 am

gatorcane wrote:anybody think that maybe the NHC has showed a slight recurve at the end to not scare people in Florida. If they did not show the slight recurve people along the SE Coast of Florida would be getting a bit anxious.

The current track is safe because it shows no East Coast threat yet.


No, I do not believe for one moment that the NHC would show an erroneous path to spare people the anxiety.

It appears that the models are showing the turn and climatolgy most certianly says no Fl threat at all, let alone the east coast.

Not that this guarantees this; however I do not buy into a recurve being shown erroneously.
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#402 Postby fci » Tue Sep 05, 2006 11:55 am

Fusion13 wrote:Here is a mm5fsu 120h model. Looking pretty big.


And another over the Cape Verde islands, highly unlikely.
Seems like the models like to show storms over the Cape Verde Islands which is a rareity.
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#403 Postby TampaFl » Tue Sep 05, 2006 11:56 am

jusforsean wrote:Could someone pls post a working model link for me, for a few days now mine says i am unauthorized to access it????


Try this:

http://moe.met.fsu.edu/tcgengifs/
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#404 Postby Dean4Storms » Tue Sep 05, 2006 12:00 pm

12z MM5 run, seems to show a turn to the NW at the end.

http://moe.met.fsu.edu/mm5/FLORENCE.d1.movie.gif
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#405 Postby fci » Tue Sep 05, 2006 12:02 pm

Suncat wrote:I have a feeling that Florence may become a headache for the Carolinas. I'm basing this on the time of year, (September storms are more likely to hit the Outer Banks) and this is an 'F' named storm (the sixth storm of the season is also more likely to hit the Carolinas, (as in Fran and Floyd). In recent history, the worse hurricanes hit North Carolina following a major rain event. Ernesto dropped a lot of rain in the coastal plains region of the state and there have been two cold fronts in the last few days that are adding to the total rainfall east of I-95. Based on this very unscientific approach, it seems that we are primed for a major hurricane. :(


I'm catching up on the thread and am a little behind but I saw some subsequent posts making fun of your post.

I happen to agree with your concern as patterns do seem to occur and if in the past there has been a trend then who is to say that it would not happen?

Hope your are wrong but I think it is way too early for the Carolina's to relax on Florence as there is an eerily similar look to Floyd to my eyes.
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#406 Postby Meso » Tue Sep 05, 2006 12:04 pm

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#407 Postby MiamiensisWx » Tue Sep 05, 2006 12:12 pm



Note the spurious development of a low over the eastern CONUS near the Great Lakes near the end of the run that weakens the Canadian/western Atlantic merged ridging. I'm a bit skeptical of the spurious nature of the development of that low. For such rapid deepening as indicated at the end of the 12Z, some of the synoptics would have to be more fall-like or winter-like. This run, literally, appears to be rapidly developing that low from a weak surface front/mid-level trough. I'm a bit skeptical of the nature of this. Any thoughts?
Last edited by MiamiensisWx on Tue Sep 05, 2006 12:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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#408 Postby Dean4Storms » Tue Sep 05, 2006 12:12 pm

Meso wrote:http://moe.met.fsu.edu/cgi-bin/gfstc2.cgi?time=2006090512&field=Sea+Level+Pressure&hour=Animation

The 12z GFS run



That looks good for the US, but not for Bermuda. We will see.
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#409 Postby Dean4Storms » Tue Sep 05, 2006 12:14 pm

CapeVerdeWave wrote:


Note the sprious development of a low over the eastern CONUS near the Great Lakes near the end of the run that weakens the Canadian/western Atlantic merged ridging. I'm a bit skeptical of the sprious nature of the development of that low. For such rapid deepening as indicated at the end of the 12Z, some of the synoptics would have to be more fall-like or winter-like. This run, literally, appears to be rapidly developing that low from a weak surface front/mid-level trough. I'm a bit skeptical of the nature of this. Any thoughts?



Could happen, the only thing we can do right now is wait to see if the other Globals pick up on it, especially the Canadian, NAM and Euro.
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#410 Postby UpTheCreek » Tue Sep 05, 2006 12:17 pm

If it were to make an east coast landfall, how many days out? 7 or 8 a good guess?

Please go north early......we mostly don't need all the rain! :(
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#411 Postby Thunder44 » Tue Sep 05, 2006 12:25 pm

The 12z Nogaps is out and still showing a recurve out to sea:

https://www.fnmoc.navy.mil/CGI/PUBLIC/w ... 2006090512
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#412 Postby gatorcane » Tue Sep 05, 2006 12:28 pm

The following post is NOT an official forecast and should not be used as such. It is just the opinion of the poster and may or may not be backed by sound meteorological data. It is NOT endorsed by any professional institution including storm2k.org For Official Information please refer to the NHC and NWS products
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given that the majority of models are saying recurve, climatology says recurve, and it is already at a fairly north lattitude....I will put my prediction in:

recurve inbetween Bermuda and EC - which is quite typical I might add.
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#413 Postby PTrackerLA » Tue Sep 05, 2006 12:36 pm

I predict Florence will become a big ole' fish. The size of the circulation is very impressive although it remains somewhat disorganized. Can't really see this making it to the east coast as of right now but it should give us our first major hurricane of the season (or maybe the only one of the year at this rate).
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#414 Postby WxGuy1 » Tue Sep 05, 2006 12:37 pm

CapeVerdeWave wrote:


Note the spurious development of a low over the eastern CONUS near the Great Lakes near the end of the run that weakens the Canadian/western Atlantic merged ridging. I'm a bit skeptical of the spurious nature of the development of that low. For such rapid deepening as indicated at the end of the 12Z, some of the synoptics would have to be more fall-like or winter-like. This run, literally, appears to be rapidly developing that low from a weak surface front/mid-level trough. I'm a bit skeptical of the nature of this. Any thoughts?


Doesn't seem unreasonable to me, and I wouldn't call that "rapid deepening" if you are referring to the Great Lakes low? It bottoms out at 1010mb (per the 12z GFS), which is certainly nothing spectacular.... A surge of cooler air across the upper MS River valley and some WAA over the eastern Great Lakes will increase the thermal gradient across the region. Thermal wind relation tells us that this will increase flow aloft (which the models prog) and intensify the vorticity aloft across the central Great Lakes as this occurs. This vort max slides eastward with time, as warm-air advection continues across the eastern Great Lakes. There isn't a whole lot of support from transverse circulations in the upper-levels (though the surface low is near the right-entrance region of the upper-level jet streak), but the thermal and vorticity advection patterns make it plausible that a low (especially a weak low as the GFS indicates) will develop across the Great Lakes. Given the thermal gradient in place, I wouldn't be surprised if the low is going to be stronger than the GFS progs now, though the model can certainly quantify the cyclogenesis process much easier than I can!
Last edited by WxGuy1 on Tue Sep 05, 2006 12:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#415 Postby JTD » Tue Sep 05, 2006 12:37 pm

Yeah, I agree. The models are SCREAMING recurve. I don't see a U.S.E.C. threat at all.

Jeff Masters was right in his earlier blog when he stated that there'd be more storms in the upcoming period but the chancs of a recurve were high.

IMO, chalk this one up as a fish, potentially a strong fish though.
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#416 Postby hial2 » Tue Sep 05, 2006 12:46 pm

Wherever you are, until it goes north of your location, keep an eye on this system...We all know how accurate models are...
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#417 Postby Zardoz » Tue Sep 05, 2006 12:47 pm

jason0509 wrote:The models are SCREAMING recurve.

http://www.sfwmd.gov/org/omd/ops/weathe ... orm_06.gif
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#418 Postby BensonTCwatcher » Tue Sep 05, 2006 12:49 pm

Ummm,,,still moving west, good circulation and consolidating. I really don't see any of the pros here or the NHC pining this down 5 days out. We first would need all of the forecast features and thier hights, and vorticities etc. to pan out and verify. That's at best a tall order right now. I see the synoptic possibilty of a recurve and in fact it is backed up by climo which leans toward a recurve. I will say that eack tick west toward 60 below 20N makes me nervous. To me, if we get W of 60 S of 20 and then W of 70 near 25N we are talking about a scenario that we MUST have a decent trough to weaken the combined canadian and Bermuda high pressure to produce a recurve before any part of the EC is affected. I want Florence to pick up some lattitude in the next couple of days.
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#419 Postby Damar91 » Tue Sep 05, 2006 12:50 pm

Zardoz wrote:
jason0509 wrote:The models are SCREAMING recurve.

http://www.sfwmd.gov/org/omd/ops/weathe ... orm_06.gif


Boy, that is the understatement of the year! After Ermesto, however, I think I'll still keep one eye on this one.
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#420 Postby MiamiensisWx » Tue Sep 05, 2006 12:51 pm

WxGuy1 wrote:Doesn't seem unreasonable to me, and I wouldn't call that "rapid deepening" if you are referring to the Great Lakes low? It bottoms out at 1010mb (per the 12z GFS), which is certainly nothing spectacular.... A surge of cooler air across the upper MS River valley and some WAA over the eastern Great Lakes will increase the thermal gradient across the region. Thermal wind relation tells us that this will increase flow aloft (which the models prog) and intensify the vorticity aloft across the central Great Lakes as this occurs. This vort max slides eastward with time, as warm-air advection continues across the eastern Great Lakes. There isn't a whole lot of support from transverse circulations in the upper-levels (though the surface low is near the right-entrance region of the upper-level jet streak), but the thermal and vorticity advection patterns make it plausible that a low (especially a weak low as the GFS indicates) will develop across the Great Lakes. Given the thermal gradient in place, I wouldn't be surprised if the low is going to be stronger than the GFS progs now, though the model can certainly quantify the cyclogenesis process much easier than I can!


Good points. Actually, I misinterpreted what I was trying to say. By "rapid deepening", I meant that the low showed a short but quick spurt of some deepening. I know it doesn't qualify as rapid deepening, nor do the synoptics and thermal gradient indicate it as rapid deepening, but it was simply a brain freeze while searching for as best a description as to what I was trying to describe.

I never said that an eastern CONUS/Eastern Seaboard landfall was likely, but that it was more along the lines of a 50/50 possibility in my opinion, based on my interpretation of the synoptics and viewing of model initializations and surface maps/loops. It was also an analysis of, if the 50% chance of an Eastern Seaboard impact occurs, which general paths might be most likely.
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