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wxmann_91
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#41 Postby wxmann_91 » Tue Apr 03, 2007 8:54 pm

I'm not afraid to post at all. I'm not a political person... I'm a weather person. So I prefer to join in only in weather discussions. Severe wx discussions aren't very active here, so I don't post many of my thoughts here. Sorry... but I only have time for one forum.

As a general rule of thumb for Internet message boards, the greater number of people, the more moderation to keep excess noise down. Certainly, after the boost of members in 2004-2005, 2006 was the year where moderation was really enforced. Makes sense. However, it seems that this has always been a very conservative board, given that previous members who were banned have implied that.

I don't feel as if there's a clique here at all. I've been to many forums, and this is where this board succeeds. There's a much less sense of cliquiness than in other boards. Old members are just as prone to being banned as new members. There are weather boards are there I know, where cliques have formed, and the members in the clique, they will not ban or even be reluctant to suspend them, even as that member is scaring professional mets! On the other hand, the moment a new member posts something that is deemed dumb or stupid, he/she is suspended for several days.

Then again, I have the feeling that "old-timers" are almost more prone to be banned than newcomers. Certainly makes sense - though only to a degree IMO. I've seen members who had only a couple of infractions or less, and immediately get suspended or permanently banned (won't name names but I can name 5 names off the top of my head). In addition I agree that if a thread is locked, a post deleted, or even before an account is suspended/removed, notify the member. Perhaps there was a misunderstanding.

Another "gripe" I have involves the Games forum. I use to post here often in that forum, it was very educational and fun. Then it was deleted. Now, perhaps the server is running low on space. But keep in mind that 3/4 of the threads in there were started by "one of your own". Not trying to be disrespectful here, but I think the fact that it was removed, has decreased traffic significantly this off-season.

I'm sorry if there was disrespect in the post, none intended. Just expressing MHO. I understand that it can be difficult to moderate a large board such as this one.
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Derek Ortt

#42 Postby Derek Ortt » Tue Apr 03, 2007 9:29 pm

Let's be honest. There is NO ban on political posts enforced on S2K (the Iran thread is as political as you can get). What is enforced is a ban on people getting into fights over political issues. The problem arises when the rule is abused to strike down anyone who disagrees with the staff or the majority. True fights should be dealt with appropriately, but the political rule is used far too often. This simply leads to alienation over members who are scorned over a rule that is applied only to certain members at certain times.

Regit,

read my post proposing the civics forum being needed. There we could talk about world issues and debate them. That's how many, including myself understand what is going on in the world. But what we should not allow here is the pure political posts where "person A says those who think we should not be in Iran are traitors to our country and are evil Dems". That is what should not be allowed even if a civics forum is created. Debate the issues using facts, logical opinions, and historical precedent, not political ideology. Basically, just have something to sopport ones stance
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#43 Postby Janie2006 » Wed Apr 04, 2007 12:19 am

I've posted on boards a lot more contentious than this one, thats a certainty. I'm busy with work and school myself, so I don't have as much time as I'd like to socialize.

I don't see eye-to-eye with some people on the board, and I'm sure they don't agree with me on occasion. C'est la vie. Thats the beauty of discourse. We can all learn things from each other. I defend my position vociferously when I have time, but I don't hold grudges. What's the point? I've not the time or the energy for it. I have noticed some very curious things from time to time, though. Sometimes threads disappear permanently for some reason. Sometimes threads disappear, only to reappear later. Curious.

I'm outspoken, but I ain't evil. Not yet, anyway. :grrr:

:wink:
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#44 Postby Janie2006 » Wed Apr 04, 2007 12:31 am

And really, anytime I see something like "anyone who disagrees is a traitor" or nonsense like that, I just have to chalk that up to a lack of imagination on that person's part. I think I'd have found a much more interesting way to make someone angry.
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#45 Postby Lindaloo » Wed Apr 04, 2007 8:36 am

Janie2006 wrote:I've posted on boards a lot more contentious than this one, thats a certainty. I'm busy with work and school myself, so I don't have as much time as I'd like to socialize.

I don't see eye-to-eye with some people on the board, and I'm sure they don't agree with me on occasion. C'est la vie. Thats the beauty of discourse. We can all learn things from each other. I defend my position vociferously when I have time, but I don't hold grudges. What's the point? I've not the time or the energy for it. I have noticed some very curious things from time to time, though. Sometimes threads disappear permanently for some reason. Sometimes threads disappear, only to reappear later. Curious.

I'm outspoken, but I ain't evil. Not yet, anyway. :grrr:

:wink:


If threads are removed permanently then it probably violated the rules. If you see one removed, then moved back, either the thread was being questioned and under review by staff or one of the staff is cleaning it up and then moves it back out on the board.
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#46 Postby JenBayles » Wed Apr 04, 2007 8:53 am

Hmmmm.... "The Rules" again. IMO, participation here at S2K has been strangled by "The Rules." How many people here, new or old, can even keep up with them all? The more Rules that are implemented, the easier it is for a member to unwittingly break one. Honestly, the only Rule that needs to be stated is the Golden Rule (whether you believe the origins of it to be divine or not): Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Very easy to remember.

Years ago, I remember several really good, informative debates on the Political Forum. Yes, passions run high on politics and religion, but for the better part, people behaved themselves with occasional reminders and quality moderation from the staff. How many mods do we have who rarely participate any longer, only to show up in order to pop someone who broke a subjective rule? There's so darn many Rules now, that it's nearly impossible for the Mods to evenly enforce them, and for members to abide by them.

S2K has been a great place for many years, and I surely would miss everyone if it were to disband. I suggest a bit more restraint on the part of the mods, perhaps a review of The Rules, and a thicker skin for some members. It is so easy to cry, "I'm offended! Mods - you have to kick Member A because he hurt my feelings!" It's become easier not to post anything rather than risk breaking a Rule or offending another member. Flame on! :-D
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Rainband

#47 Postby Rainband » Wed Apr 04, 2007 9:08 am

JenBayles wrote:Hmmmm.... "The Rules" again. IMO, participation here at S2K has been strangled by "The Rules." How many people here, new or old, can even keep up with them all? The more Rules that are implemented, the easier it is for a member to unwittingly break one. Honestly, the only Rule that needs to be stated is the Golden Rule (whether you believe the origins of it to be divine or not): Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Very easy to remember.

Years ago, I remember several really good, informative debates on the Political Forum. Yes, passions run high on politics and religion, but for the better part, people behaved themselves with occasional reminders and quality moderation from the staff. How many mods do we have who rarely participate any longer, only to show up in order to pop someone who broke a subjective rule? There's so darn many Rules now, that it's nearly impossible for the Mods to evenly enforce them, and for members to abide by them.

S2K has been a great place for many years, and I surely would miss everyone if it were to disband. I suggest a bit more restraint on the part of the mods, perhaps a review of The Rules, and a thicker skin for some members. It is so easy to cry, "I'm offended! Mods - you have to kick Member A because he hurt my feelings!" It's become easier not to post anything rather than risk breaking a Rule or offending another member. Flame on! :-D
I disagree on two points. We are always here, wether in the backround or in public view. There is always a couple of us on. We don't get joy from "poping" someone as you put it. It's our job. Thats what sets us aside, we demand a respectful forum. The second point, the rules. There aren't too many of them and they are clearly posted. It may have been posted a 100 times before but I will say it again. A lot goes on behind the scenes and most of you aren't privy to it. We do our jobs and appreciate it when the members of this site help us by following the rules. I really don't think thats too much to ask.
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#48 Postby GalvestonDuck » Wed Apr 04, 2007 9:19 am

JenBayles wrote:S2K has been a great place for many years, and I surely would miss everyone if it were to disband. I suggest a bit more restraint on the part of the mods, perhaps a review of The Rules, and a thicker skin for some members. It is so easy to cry, "I'm offended! Mods - you have to kick Member A because he hurt my feelings!" It's become easier not to post anything rather than risk breaking a Rule or offending another member. Flame on! :-D


Ditto what Rainband said.

Furthermore, we would not necessarily "kick" a member simply for hurting someone's feelings. It would depend upon what was said, how it was said, and how it was perceived. There have been a handful of cases of miscommunication where someone's tone in text was not as it would have been if spoken face-to-face. If anything, we would give the person a warning via PM.

Seriously, you guys don't see the activity and PM's that we send (and receive! Hoo-boy!). Banning is an extreme, last resort. If you know someone who was banned, believe me, there was a lot more going on than what you probably saw on the board.

BTW, no flaming! :wink: And if anyone perceives a reply or rebuttal to a post as a "flame," then yeah, like you said, perhaps thicker skin is in order.
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#49 Postby sunny » Wed Apr 04, 2007 10:10 am

I do understand what you go through Duckie - I am a moderator on an equally large board out of the UK. I understand what goes on behind the scenes, I understand that it is not an easy job with having so many members and trying to decipher what is what. But what I also understand, and this was MY main point, is that the moderators are held to the same rules and policies as it's members. We do not get special treatment because we are moderators - we are there to keep things running smoothly and not create or add to the friction.
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Rainband

#50 Postby Rainband » Wed Apr 04, 2007 10:45 am

sunny wrote:I do understand what you go through Duckie - I am a moderator on an equally large board out of the UK. I understand what goes on behind the scenes, I understand that it is not an easy job with having so many members and trying to decipher what is what. But what I also understand, and this was MY main point, is that the moderators are held to the same rules and policies as it's members. We do not get special treatment because we are moderators - we are there to keep things running smoothly and not create or add to the friction.
Neither do we. I was suspended about three years ago and banned for three months. All because I broke the rules. So no matter what anyone thinks....There is no special treatment here.
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#51 Postby sunny » Wed Apr 04, 2007 10:53 am

Rainband wrote:
sunny wrote:I do understand what you go through Duckie - I am a moderator on an equally large board out of the UK. I understand what goes on behind the scenes, I understand that it is not an easy job with having so many members and trying to decipher what is what. But what I also understand, and this was MY main point, is that the moderators are held to the same rules and policies as it's members. We do not get special treatment because we are moderators - we are there to keep things running smoothly and not create or add to the friction.
Neither do we. I was suspended about three years ago and banned for three months. All because I broke the rules. So no matter what anyone thinks....There is no special treatment here.


Jonathan, you have always been one of my favorite people here. You have always been very kind and fair with me. But I don't think you are listening to the members here. We are tying to tell you that there are issues. For obvious reasons no one is going to come out and say 'this one did this' because then you would have to look over your shouler constantly.
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kevin

#52 Postby kevin » Wed Apr 04, 2007 10:58 am

There is clearly a pro-Bush nationalistic American bias on this board. It comes through in all areas. I consider it a product mostly of geography (we afterall do live in the socially conservative and staunchly pro-military American South, by and large). Then there is the fact that the Administrators are all strongly pro-Bush/Republican. It is only natural that they would appoint people to the position of moderator who have similar values and opinions as themselves. The emergent property is group-think because the ruling assumptions of the board are skewed from the user base.

I am considered conservative on most matters in every single place I frequent. My economic class determines my feelings about welfare and fiscal spending. I am a student of International Relations and have no qualms about using force in order to achieve certain aims. I view Al Qae'ada and the mujahadeen to be real threats to the security of the West. While I am against the war in Iraq, there is now a size able number of people who are opposed that have every other indicator of being conservative. Only here am I considered or do I feel liberal.

The board probably does scare many liberals and people with different religious views away. It probably is disturbing to people of Arabian ancestry. I have seen overt racism against Arabs on this board, but thankfully I have seen it in most cases taken care of. The spirit of this board however is strongly adversarial. People shouldn't be afraid to post though. Whatever happens on the board happens on the board. If one cares about the community they should try to in good conscience work within the rules for its benefit.

There are a lot more frightening things in the world than posting on a message board.
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#53 Postby Janie2006 » Wed Apr 04, 2007 10:59 am

I appreciate the clarifications. I have been an administrator on past boards and I know it isn't an eay job sometimes, especially on a board of this size. It is good that you started this thread, Linda. Sometimes you have to clear the air.
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#54 Postby fwbbreeze » Wed Apr 04, 2007 11:00 am

sunny wrote:
Rainband wrote:
sunny wrote:I do understand what you go through Duckie - I am a moderator on an equally large board out of the UK. I understand what goes on behind the scenes, I understand that it is not an easy job with having so many members and trying to decipher what is what. But what I also understand, and this was MY main point, is that the moderators are held to the same rules and policies as it's members. We do not get special treatment because we are moderators - we are there to keep things running smoothly and not create or add to the friction.
Neither do we. I was suspended about three years ago and banned for three months. All because I broke the rules. So no matter what anyone thinks....There is no special treatment here.


Jonathan, you have always been one of my favorite people here. You have always been very kind and fair with me. But I don't think you are listening to the members here. We are tying to tell you that there are issues. For obvious reasons no one is going to come out and say 'this one did this' because then you would have to look over your shouler constantly.


This thread was started for us members to post concerns and that is exactly what Sunny, Jenbayles, TLC, Miss Mary, etc have done and it appears they are being dismissed. If the admins and mods dont see a problem then it is foolish to continue with this thread. However, I as well as others share Sunny's frustration!! :wall:
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#55 Postby Lindaloo » Wed Apr 04, 2007 11:08 am

fwb, we are listening, trust me on that one. There are alot of good points in this thread on both sides. Rome was not built in a day and it ain't gonna happen over night either. Everyone has a right to their opinions whether they are liked or not. That doesn't mean that because someone has a differing opinion is wrong by no means.

Let's not sway this another way to cause further discontent. I would like to read some constructive criticism though, instead of just the criticism.
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#56 Postby Rainband » Wed Apr 04, 2007 11:09 am

well then if there is a problem, those that are feeling this need to let it be know. There are pm features on the board and as always I am here to listen :D
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#57 Postby gtalum » Wed Apr 04, 2007 12:08 pm

Personally, I think a political forum in which the rules are a bit more lax would help out the rest of the board. You can make the political forum "no-holds-barred" within reason (ie no profanity, no ad-hominem attacks, etc) and then make the other forums strictly business. A lot of the trouble that people get into on this board (well, that I get into, anyway :lol: ) is because of the fuzzy line between legitimate world events and politics.
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#58 Postby GalvestonDuck » Wed Apr 04, 2007 1:09 pm

I hope it didn't seem like I was dismissing what Sunny, or anyone else, has said.

Before I get into the real nitty-gritty of what I want to say, let me quickly address the issue that was raised about where most of us moderators live and what our "politics" are. Sure, many of us are from the South -- the "Bible-belt," if you will. However, look at the member's map. Just as a large number of mods are from the Gulf states and the coast, so are a lot of the members. Like Hybridstorm said, a big reason for that stems from the fact that this is a weather board and tropical weather is a big part of that. So, basically, the moderating staff is a nice diverse sampling of the members themselves. There are liberals as well as conservatives, gays as well as straights, Northerners as well as Southerners. (And I'm not afraid to say I'm a Yankee. :wink: )

We've tried to drive home the point that communication is a necessity in all of this, and I'm not just talking about PM'ing a mod about a spammer. I'm talking about mods PM'ing members about infractions and deletions, members READING the PM's and replying back and discussing things with the mod, and mods discussing those communications with other mods in our forum.

I'm going to go on record now and risk my moderator status as well as my membership. So be it.

There are diverse beliefs and philosophies among the moderators just the same as there are among the members. And just as members don't always agree, neither do moderators. Anyone who seriously thinks that we totally agree on all issues is kidding themselves. I guess we’re like a mini-version of a legislative group. We try to be representatives for the members. When dealing with issues that are raised, we try to be a voice for you, discuss things, and come to a unified agreement. But there have been battles. Believe me, there have been battles. And frustrations. And words. Many times, those words ended with an administrator having the last say. A moderator cannot (and should not) edit, suspend, or ban another moderator. So, we rely on Chad, Marshall, and David as administrators to keep things in check. So should the members.

There have been issues in the past that were not resolved to my satisfaction (Cindy, you know of one that affected you and again, I apologize…I tried). We may not always reach a resolution that we all agree on. Sometimes, all we can do is just grit our teeth and smile when the final word comes down. Believe me, I’ve ended my fair share of moderator discussions with simply one word -- “Fine” (with a “Grrr” under my breath).

It seems we can’t always make everyone happy. But, we try.
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#59 Postby budrizr » Wed Apr 04, 2007 4:43 pm

Look at my post count & join date. This is my first post in 5 months as a member. I've lurked here before that as well. Why don't I post? Between what I've heard from other members (both current & past) and what I've read on my own, the moderation here is too restrictive. I joined because I wanted to give the board a chance, but I just didn't see a welcome wagon-type atmosphere. I post on other weather boards, and I have many thousands of posts on several of them. I'm sure that several of them would have gotten me in trouble over here, even though I'm just sharing my thoughts, and that does keep me from posting. I won't even address the "no politics" rule. That's absurd.

Do with this post as you wish, but I thought you might appreciate hearing from someone who hasn't felt compelled to post for whatever reason.

Loosen up on the rules. They can stifle free thinking and honest discussion if they're too restrictive. Just my two cents.
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#60 Postby Lindaloo » Wed Apr 04, 2007 4:47 pm

The owner of the board said there will be no politics, for now anyway.
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