Iran seizes U.K. troops=The 15 sailors are back home

[feederband]

Negotiating for their release and achieving it is diplomatic.

This should clear things up a lot on what nations do under these circumstances:

http://www.usspueblo.org/

Ok I have know problem achieving their release diplomaticaly...But once they have left Iranian airspace... They should be made to understand that there actions come with a price...If not they will just do it again...

[Hybridstorm_November2001]

First and foremost I'm happy the sailors were released. Second Iran should be made to pay a price for their actions, not sure if it should be economic, diplomatic, or militarily, but they should pay.

[gtalum]

Any price you force Iran to pay will be passed back to us in the form of constricted oil supply for some amount of time, if not worse. I don't think it's worth it.

[feederband]

Any price you force Iran to pay will be passed back to us in the form of constricted oil supply for some amount of time, if not worse. I don't think it's worth it.

We are already paying...

[Hybridstorm_November2001]

Any price you force Iran to pay will be passed back to us in the form of constricted oil supply for some amount of time, if not worse. I don't think it's worth it.

What might eventually happen if you let them get away with it is worth it.

[gtalum]

We are already paying...

It would get worse, quickly.

[Hybridstorm_November2001]

I see it as short term pain for long term gain.

[gtalum]

I see it as short term pain for long term gain.

What long term gain? They know that they have us by the collar and that anytime we make them angry they can cause us economic ruin. Unless and until we cut off our oil dependency, we are under their control.

[Hybridstorm_November2001]

Putting it very bluntly; defeat Iran and you get control of their oil (they have the second biggest proven crude oil reserves in the world after all), either via a puppet regime, or as a direct protectorate. That is the long term gain for the short term pain of which I speak.

[gtalum]

Putting it very bluntly; defeat Iran and you get control of their oil (they have the second biggest proven crude oil reserves in the world after all), either via a puppet regime, or as a direct protectorate. That is the long term gain for the short term pain of which I speak.

Oh yeah, because that has gone so well in Iraq (and every other country we've tried to control)...

Iran would cause a lot more problems than Iraq has in terms of invasion and occupation. They are wealthier, better armed, and just as willing to die.

[Hybridstorm_November2001]

During WW II the Japanese were very willing to die; e.g. Kamikaze. Now let me think how was their will broken, and if it hadn't been we would likely not be able to have this, or any other, conversation today.

[gtalum]

During WW II the Japanese were very willing to die; e.g. Kamikaze. Now let me think how was their will broken.

So you want to start a nuclear war, in which pretty much everyone on Earth will be killed, because Iran held 15 British soldiers captive for a couple of weeks?

[Hybridstorm_November2001]

Nope. I was just pointing out one way Iran could be defeated without using massive amounts of ground troops, and I highly doubt any Nuclear Power would come to the aid of Iran in the end (they want to go on living too after all) anyway.

[gtalum]

Nope. I was just pointing out one way Iran could be defeated without using massive amounts of ground troops, and I highly doubt any Nuclear Power would come to the aid of Iran in the end (they want to go on living too after all).

I wish I shared your optimism. Iran itself may have nuclear weapons. North Korea, and ally of theirs, has nuclear weapons. Pakistan, another fundamentalist Muslim nation, has nuclear weapons. On the other side, Israel has nuclear weapons and may decide to get in on the fun.

It is not good precedent to use a nuclear weapon unless one is first used on us or an ally. If we break that prohibition, it will be fair game for everyone to use them.

[Hybridstorm_November2001]

Well it goes without saying it is a last resort. Still it can not be taken off the table in this situation. In addition there are conventional means of carpet bombing that should be utilized massively against Iran before any ground invasion. The nation would have to be weakened greatly, and it's offensive capabilities crippled before boots could hit the streets of Tehran.

[gtalum]

Well it goes without saying it is a last resort. Still it can not be taken off the table in this situation. In addition there are conventional means of carpet bombing that should be utilized massively against Iran before any ground invasion. The nation would have to be weakened greatly, and it's offensive capabilities crippled before boots could hit the streets of Tehran.

Assuming we take that tactic, where do your propose we get the "boots" from to hit the streets of Tehran after we commit genocide by carpet-bombing?

[Hybridstorm_November2001]

1. Genocide? I never meant to imply that. I meant carpet bombing, and thus near total destruction of military targets and military and/or dual use infrastructure.

2. I hate to post this, but desperate time call for desperate measures. Little doubt any ground invasion of Iran would entail the reinstatement of some type of large draft. It is only logical sadly.

[brunota2003]

Iran says they have been released...I'll believe it when word comes in from the embassy over there...

[Hybridstorm_November2001]

Alas this discussion has gotten off topic too a great degree. I personally will refrain from any further such posts in this thread. I apologize if any feel I hijacked this thread, that was not my intention.

[gtalum]

Out of respect for Hybridstorm_November2001's post, this post has been respectfully deleted by the poster.