Tropical Storm Barry - 60 mph - NHC Post-season report

[HURAKAN]

http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/2007atlan.shtml

The first of the season to get its post-season report out.

Sandy

[JonathanBelles]

Barry came out before Andrea?

[Matt-hurricanewatcher]

I agree 100 percent with that thinking. Also the new director has doing a very good job, he got this out very fast. I think Andrea is going to be a few more months going over the data at the time of when it turned tropical.

[miamicanes177]

Lots of crow to go around for a lot of people around here and other places! NHC not only maintains it was indeed a tropical storm, but that the winds were 50kts instead of 45kts as previously thought.

[Jam151]

they also clarify it was a TD at landfall...

[MiamiensisWx]

It is not surprising that the maximum one-minute winds were raised to 50 kts. Reconnaissance data did support sfc winds within this range. The highest flight-level winds occurred as the system's organization attained its best presentation and structure. The mid-level shear began to take its toll within a few hours of Barry's peak intensity, so I agree that the system briefly attained those maximum winds.

I do think that the NHC took most of the data into their accounts. At the same time, I believe the report is not as detailed with respect to the synoptic environment. It appears that some advisory data was copied into the post-storm analysis, and I have not noticed significant revisions.

In addition, I think there is a distinct possibility that the center dissipated prior to Florida landfall; the broad circulation was visible to the west of Saint Petersburg, FL. It may have been a mid-level circulation. I am not positive that the broad rotation was an indication of the main sfc low (or LLC) west of Tampa Bay, so it is plausible that the TPC is correct.

I am surprised that the report does not mention the possibility that Barry was subtropical. A blend of the data (reconnaissance, sfc obs, and satellite) indicates that Barry was a hybrid (or subtropical) entity. In addition, the system was associated with a frontal environment.

[JonathanBelles]

It still did not say anything other than landfall in the Tampa Bay region. I agree with most of the report.

[Andrew92]

Wow, quick to get it up! Although I had been checking every now and then out of curiosity..... Still, didn't expect this so soon.

MiamiensisWx, it does mention the possibility that it could have been a subtropical storm in the Meteorological Statistics section. Let me quote the first sentence of the second paragraph of that section:

"Barry was embedded within strong southwesterly shear ahead of a mid-latitude trough and the cloud pattern had features of both a tropical and a subtropical cyclone."

They didn't rule out the possibility and it is mentioned there; they just ruled that it was, indeed, a tropical storm.

And as for the synoptic history section, yeah, it isn't wildly detailed. But the storm didn't have a long life, either. I actually like that the history was like this; brief but informative.

-Andrew92

[MiamiensisWx]

Wow, quick to get it up! Although I had been checking every now and then out of curiosity..... Still, didn't expect this so soon.

MiamiensisWx, it does mention the possibility that it could have been a subtropical storm in the Meteorological Statistics section. Let me quote the first sentence of the second paragraph of that section:

"Barry was embedded within strong southwesterly shear ahead of a mid-latitude trough and the cloud pattern had features of both a tropical and a subtropical cyclone."

They didn't rule out the possibility and it is mentioned there; they just ruled that it was, indeed, a tropical storm.

And as for the synoptic history section, yeah, it isn't wildly detailed. But the storm didn't have a long life, either. I actually like that the history was like this; brief but informative.

-Andrew92

I briefly browsed the report, so I didn't notice that section. Thanks for the correction! I do agree that the report is informative, but other short-lived systems have featured more detailed and authoritative information in the post-storm analysis. In addition, there is very little revision from the original public advisories. The main exception is the intensity increase and the new best track.

[Berwick Bay]

Miami posted

Lots of crow to go around for a lot of people around here and other places! NHC not only maintains it was indeed a tropical storm, but that the winds were 50kts instead of 45kts as previously thought.

[b]And he's right. This was in fact a tropical storm. I'd like somebody to pull up a couple of visuals right about the time the storm was upgraded (well off the Fla coast in the SE GOM). There is a VERY well defined low level circulation [with burgeoning thunderstorm activity at the center. This would have been the afternoon of June 1st. I never understood the talk about it "not really being a tropical storm". I guess that was based upon its condition upon reaching the coast where it had obviously weakened. I still don't think it became extra-tropical until AFTER it made landfall. One more thing, as the season proceeds you will find out that I am definitely not an NHC Cheerleader, but I do believe in giving them credit when credit is due. Yes, the NHC has made some mistakes in the past with tropical storm classifications (depression or storm or hurricane). But think of this. The NHC will usually take a more conservative line (correctly I think) insofar as whether or not a system should be upgraded. When the NHC makes a call for upgrade to Depression or storm, you can pretty much take it to the bank. And in this case I think Barry (or Mayflower as I called it at the time) was definitely a tropical storm in the SE GOM on the afternoon of June 1st.

[NDG]

[Air Force Met]

Lots of crow to go around for a lot of people around here and other places! NHC not only maintains it was indeed a tropical storm, but that the winds were 50kts instead of 45kts as previously thought.

To me there wasn't any doubt about it being a tropical cyclone when it formed...the doubt was its identity at landfall.

When it first formed...it was a poorly organized sheared tropical system that owed it's deepening primarily due to baroclinic processes and not tropical processes. A system can still be a tropical system and warm core by deepening baroclinically. Weak tropical systems do it all the time.

The issue...at least to me...was its classification at landfall. The NHC said in the report: "By then, the system had weakened to a tropical depression and had begun to acquire extratropical characteristics."

Now...as everyone knows...the NHC errs on the side of caution when posting advisories and will not downgrade something to an ET class until it is fully ET and out of harms way. That is smart because whether it is an ET low or a TD.., the effects in these weak systems are still the same and the public doesn't understand the diff.

It is primarily an issue of interest for meteorologists and ET transition is not like flipping a switch. It is a gradual process. Some would prefer (like me) to change the designation when the knob is a little past halfway and moving towards the ET end in a rapid fashion. Others...like the NHC want to wait until the knob is all the way to the other end. To me...if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck...then it is a duck...even if it hasn't taken off and flown.

But the NHC errs on the side of caution because Joe 6-pack could end up killing himself if he hears "ET cyclone...the former Barry." And that's smart.

[miamicanes177]

Lots of crow to go around for a lot of people around here and other places! NHC not only maintains it was indeed a tropical storm, but that the winds were 50kts instead of 45kts as previously thought.

To me there wasn't any doubt about it being a tropical cyclone when it formed...the doubt was its identity at landfall.

I was talking about all the people who contend it was not even a tropical storm at any point in its lifetime.

[Tampa Bay Hurricane]

Barry had tropical characteristics...
where I live near the landfall there was
a significant drop in pressure and
rise in tides...
also at my location the winds
were sustained for 3-5
minutes above 40 mph
with gusts in the 50-60 mph
range easily, given that
many tables on my deck
were completely flipped over
and thrown many feet across
the deck as the worst squall
came through the morning
of June 2nd. Also there were
tons of twigs and branches down
with large furniture tossed
on its side in the patio of my home.
Barry was a fierce tropical beast.

[Air Force Met]

Barry had tropical characteristics...
where I live near the landfall there was
a significant drop in pressure and
rise in tides...
also at my location the winds
were sustained for 3-5
minutes above 40 mph
with gusts in the 50-60 mph
range easily, given that
many tables on my deck
were completely flipped over
and thrown many feet across
the deck as the worst squall
came through the morning
of June 2nd. Also there were
tons of twigs and branches down
with large furniture tossed
on its side in the patio of my home.
Barry was a fierce tropical beast.

Well...to be honest...all of those things happen in a NOREASTER too. That doesn't make them tropical.

As far as your winds go, I would like to see verification of that. IN the post-storm analysis and looking at personal weather stations from the area show nothing even close to that. The NHC says it was a TD at the time of landfall which means their data shows there were no 40 mph sustained winds. The highest gust I can find is 39 kts at MacDill AFB...which was an hour before landfall.

Did you measure this with an anemometer like a VP2 or something...or did you eyeball it...?

[miamicanes177]

Well...to be honest...all of those things happen in a NOREASTER too. That doesn't make them tropical.

Barry made landfall as a tropical depression. Therefore, we can conclude it must have been tropical.

As far as your winds go, I would like to see verification of that. IN the post-storm analysis and looking at personal weather stations from the area show nothing even close to that. The NHC says it was a TD at the time of landfall which means their data shows there were no 40 mph sustained winds. The highest gust I can find is 39 kts at MacDill AFB...which was an hour before landfall.

Fact789 is in st. pete florida and he also experienced tropical storm force winds. The NHC admits in their report that 45kt winds were found 1500 feet off the ground in the southeast quadrant just before landfall. However, they said that portion of the storm did not have deep enough convection and therefore winds were unable to reach the surface according to observations. People who actually experienced it do believe they were in a tropical storm. I'll have to go with the folks on the ground and say 40mph sustained winds existed in some portion of Barry at landfall.

[caneman]

Well, I lived in the area where the rain trained over us. Got 6 inches of rain (LArgo/Clearwater area-near the beach). While I didn;t record wind speeds, I would say is was very plausible from the looks of things and having been thru quite a few TS's, that we would had some 40 mph winds. Nothing major other than torrential rain but Barry did seem to act very much like a minimal T.S.

[Tampa Bay Hurricane]

Air Force Met I do agree that a regular non-tropical
thunderstorm can produce similar conditions but to
me it just felt tropical because the surge combined with
strong wind and rain at same time but you are
right it could also be an extratropical type
entity...

I don't have anemometer...I was eyeballing and going by the
damage the winds did

could have been a downburst or outflow boundary

To my amateurish eyes it looked like a tropical storm
but then again I am an amateur...so AFM your
statement is more accurate than mine most likely.

[Chacor]

Threw together this NEXRAD animation earlier of Barry from Tampa radar... looks pretty frontal at "landfall".

[Air Force Met]

To my amateurish eyes it looked like a tropical storm but then again I am an amateur...so AFM your statement is more accurate than mine most likely.

Hey...I've been doing it as a certified observer (trying to be accurate) and forecaster (trying to verify my forecast) for 20 years+ and I can't do it. I do it for a living and when the winds are up there in that range (like after a FROPA)...I might think they are 30 kts...when they are really 25 or so. In a TSTM the rain adds to that and I may think I got 40 looking out the window and when I go over to the anemometer...I got 30...and its 20' off the ground.

So don't feel bad. It's pretty much impossible to eyeball it. As far as the furniture goes...could have been some funneling. That will crank up the winds.