NHC Director Bill Proenza re-assig,Ed Rappaport new director

[hurricanefloyd5]

stewert will not put up with crap like this if he was still around!!

[hurricanefloyd5]

STEWERT MIGHT NOT BE HAPPY WHEN HE RETURNS

[hurricanefloyd5]

any inputs and outputs are welcome!

[hurricanefloyd5]

STEWERT MIGHT NOT BE HAPPY WHEN HE RETURNS

AND THEN HE IS GOING TO THINK "THE SEC. I LEFT YOU ALL GET THE BOSS FIRED" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! oh man i wonder how thats going to go over

[Ixolib]

I agree with Stratosphere 747, in order for Rappaport to succeed and whoever follows him to succeed, the ringleaders of the Palace Coup will have to be reassigned. Otherwise NHC Directors will have to keep watching their backs to the detriment of getting their jobs done properly.

Steve

They "should" watch their backs - just as any leader should watch his or her back. They're only as good as their staff. If the staff (the many) does not support the director (the one), it is usually the director's fault - i.e., a failure of leadership.

Good, solid, and effective leadership is hard to find. Seems to me that Proenza's lack of "effective" leadership is the very reason he's in the boat he's in now. Poor performance (or poor moral) is almost always the fault of poor leadership. I applaud the staff for sounding off, and even more, I applaud the person who actually took the measures to relieve the situation.

[hurricanefloyd5]

I agree with Stratosphere 747, in order for Rappaport to succeed and whoever follows him to succeed, the ringleaders of the Palace Coup will have to be reassigned. Otherwise NHC Directors will have to keep watching their backs to the detriment of getting their jobs done properly.

Steve

They "should" watch their backs - just as any leader should watch his or her back. They're only as good as their staff. If the staff (the many) does not support the director (the one), it is usually the director's fault - i.e., a failure of leadership.

Good, solid, and effective leadership is hard to find. Seems to me that Proenza's lack of "effective" leadership is the very reason he's in the boat he's in now. Poor performance (or poor moral) is almost always the fault of poor leadership. I applaud the staff for sounding off, and even more, I applaud the person who actually took the measures to relieve the situation.

I DISAGREE CAUSE EVERYONE HAS A JOB TO DO AND IF THEY DONT DO THEIR JOB BECAUSE THEY WANT THE BOSS OUT IT'S NOT BILL'S FAULT IT'S THEIR OWN FAULT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[kevin]

I agree with Stratosphere 747, in order for Rappaport to succeed and whoever follows him to succeed, the ringleaders of the Palace Coup will have to be reassigned. Otherwise NHC Directors will have to keep watching their backs to the detriment of getting their jobs done properly.

Steve

They "should" watch their backs - just as any leader should watch his or her back. They're only as good as their staff. If the staff (the many) does not support the director (the one), it is usually the director's fault - i.e., a failure of leadership.

Good, solid, and effective leadership is hard to find. Seems to me that Proenza's lack of "effective" leadership is the very reason he's in the boat he's in now. Poor performance (or poor moral) is almost always the fault of poor leadership. I applaud the staff for sounding off, and even more, I applaud the person who actually took the measures to relieve the situation.

I DISAGREE CAUSE EVERYONE HAS A JOB TO DO AND IF THEY DONT DO THEIR JOB BECAUSE THEY WANT THE BOSS OUT IT'S NOT BILL'S FAULT IT'S THEIR OWN FAULT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Shouting makes a point correct.

[Sean in New Orleans]

I'm pleased with this decision...it is definitely appropriate, IMO.

[tolakram]

I know that we're just going to have to agree to disagree, but I don't see how anybody can support the forecasters in this situation. I know that some of you who post here have had management experience. I think that you would have to look real hard at an application from someone who took any part in the actions of the forecasters. And that is regardless of anything Proenza might have done. You would have to lool really, really, hard to justify their actions.

Depends on the job BB. The directory of the NHC is as much a public position as one of management.

js wrote:

I still find it odd that when the QuickSCAT/NOAA Anniversary story broke, everyone was on the side of Proenza. Jeff Masters, bloggers, NHC staff were all saying it would be a horrible thing to lose QuickSCAT

I was on his side for sure. I figured he was representing the thoughts of his crew. Once I found out that he used questionable unpublished material for his conclusions and the forecasters didn't support him I knew he had screwed up. I don't find that odd at all. We work with what we know.

As far as working with a crew who would went public with the complaints, why is that a problem. These are the same people who worked with Mayfield for years. They're professionals and I'm betting they tried to handle it internally but were unsuccessful. Why doubt them instead of the new guy. Is it political? Is it because he talked bad about NOAA?

It sounds to me like Proenza forgot to check his ego at the door.

[hurricanefloyd5]

opps sorry for shouting my bad!!!LOL

[hurricanefloyd5]

I know that we're just going to have to agree to disagree, but I don't see how anybody can support the forecasters in this situation. I know that some of you who post here have had management experience. I think that you would have to look real hard at an application from someone who took any part in the actions of the forecasters. And that is regardless of anything Proenza might have done. You would have to lool really, really, hard to justify their actions.

Depends on the job BB. The directory of the NHC is as much a public position as one of management.

js wrote:

I still find it odd that when the QuickSCAT/NOAA Anniversary story broke, everyone was on the side of Proenza. Jeff Masters, bloggers, NHC staff were all saying it would be a horrible thing to lose QuickSCAT

I was on his side for sure. I figured he was representing the thoughts of his crew. Once I found out that he used questionable unpublished material for his conclusions and the forecasters didn't support him I knew he had screwed up. I don't find that odd at all. We work with what we know.

As far as working with a crew who would went public with the complaints, why is that a problem. These are the same people who worked with Mayfield for years. They're professionals and I'm betting they tried to handle it internally but were unsuccessful. Why doubt them instead of the new guy. Is it political? Is it because he talked bad about NOAA?

It sounds to me like Proenza forgot to check his ego at the door.

your wrong but i think his staff needs to check their ego's at the door!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[hurricanefloyd5]

im taking everything back cause i missed one very important thing and im sorry for that but im not sorry for expressing on how i did feel and how i feel now!!!!!!!!!!lol

[tolakram]

Check the exclamation points at the door.

CNN says he's left his post.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/07/09/hurricane.official/index.html


Of course they also mention the QuickSCAT issue.

Last time I'll mention it, but give the crew a break. These people care about the NHC, why else would they all do it?

This older article sums it up well.

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/storm/content/accent/epaper/2004/10/03/a6d_FORECAST_WHO_1003.html

Max Mayfield, 56, director
Years at center: 32
Function: The captain of the ship; the heart and soul and face of the National Hurricane Center.

[Toadstool]

It sounds to me like Proenza forgot to check his ego at the door.

I think all the players in this had big ego's, especially the forecasters but also Proenza.

As for QuikSCAT, it is a very valuable tool and should certainly have another one launched, but as far as having proper records for people in the year 3007, I don't know anyone who believes people are going to be here then! Nuclear weapons will find their way into the wrong hands long before that time. (Or, if you believe in supernatural things, Jesus will be here and I'm sure he could just look up the data in the heavenly database.)

[CajunMama]

hflyd5...just because other people disagree with your view doesn't make them wrong. There's no need to be acting like that and shouting at people.

[Aslkahuna]

One question I have-what happens to the 27 people on the staff that did NOT sign the petition? How much ostracism will they have to go through from those who won? Morale isn't going to just improve overnight. I'm sure that close relationships and friendships within the staff have been strained if not ruptured over this affair. Even more importantly, how will the end users-particularly those in the Emergency Management Field feel about this? Finally, FEMA and DHS were already smarting from the post Katrina comments by Max Mayfield, what are they going to think about what some in the Admin (and yes, I'm treading close to the line here and this is as far as I will go)might characterize as an out of control organization? Then there is the Public perception. THIS is the fallout, not the fall from grace by someone who, by all acounts, royally screwed himself.

Steve

[Downdraft]

Well, I am NOT a scientist or a professional met and don't pretend to me. Truthfully, I know a helluva lot more about thunderstorms than I do hurricanes but when you get down to me weather is a hobby not a livelihood. Where I do make my money is in the field of first response, public safety and emergency management. Last time I looked my little group happened to be the most important CUSTOMERS the National Hurricane Center has. Under Max Mayfield and the Director's previous to him we felt that way. You see the way it works is the NHC gets all exposure, the glory or the ridicule, but our little groups scattered around the states sit in conference rooms and listen to their advice and then make decisions like how many people to kick out of their homes, how many businesses should lose income when ordered closed, how many families we will separate by putting our weekend warriors on the streets and we answer to real people's faces.
In the past when Max held a telephone conference with surrounding counties his word and the word of his forecasters was taken as gospel. At least here we've never contracted such important advice to a private concern feeling that government offered the best, provided the best and was the best. I can tell you for a fact Ed Rappaport and his office have some serious fence repairs to make. None of this is going to go away until everyone gets a storm and the NHC comes through like they always have. Ed needs a storm to manage, his forecasters need a storm to analyize, this board needs a storm to refocus itself and we need to be shown the boys down in Miami still have their game together.
I guess like so many here crow feathers are sticking between my teeth. I originally looked at Proenza as a whistle-blower and a man with guts. He may still be that in a sense but there is no doubt in my mind he was a lousy manager. As for Franklin, Brutus and Cassius if I were them I'd retreat to my little cubical and stick my nose back in the screen where it belongs keeping a very VERY low profile. Like it or not Avila, Franklin and that group lost a lot of respect for doing what they did. There are no winners in this at all. As a customer I'm very concerned right now about the quality of this company and it's products. Now, that's my final say on all of this to keep it up reminds me that if you sleep with dogs your bound to catch fleas.

[Matt-hurricanewatcher]

I got a question, doe's the director have the power to hire and fire the forecasters and employee's at the nhc? Thank you.


Also any other boss would of just fired you. This is what I'm hinting at.

[jasons2k]

I thought about this some on the way home.

I agree with AFM - Proenza can surely be faulted for his style and misrepresenting facts, etc. That's a fast way to lose the faith of your team and the Director of such a respected organization should know better.

But I also agree with the general theme of Steve's comments. The forecasters should have shown some restaint. You don't go straight to the media about this. Several people have posted they didn't have any other option, etc., but I don't think that's the case. We were told NOAA would complete their findings by the 20th and I think Proenza was on his way out. It was just a matter of time and the forecasters should have let the proper parties take care of this.

The only thing the forecasters accomplished was POSSIBLY expediting the process but destroying the trust & reputation of the NHC (in many's eyes) in the process. A long-term loss for a short-term gain; certainly a phyrric victory.

[Aslkahuna]

To a certain extent-yes. But to fire a CS employee requires a LOT of documentation (usually) though in this case what both Proenza and the staff did are grounds for major disciplinary action including termination for cause. I don't know how many remember, but many of us wondered if Max Mayfield was going to stay on after his Post Katrina statements which directly contradicted Public Statements by high ranking Administrative Officials including the President. I would not be surprised if he were not also told to cool his jets like Proenza though in his case he didn't dump on his Bosses. If he were, it remained confidential as it should have. But it probably also explained why he stayed on for only one more season. Right now, you've got an Us vs Them split in NHC that's going to take some effort to repair and which may not be repairable if the Us people get too cocky.

Steve