99L Recon Thread
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- SouthFloridawx
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Re: 99L Recon Thread
URNT15 KNHC 011728
AF303 01DDA INVEST HDOB 13 20070801
172030 1228N 05900W 9774 00250 0059 +226 +226 058010 011 000 009 00
172100 1227N 05859W 9773 00257 0065 +225 +225 061012 013 001 010 00
172130 1226N 05858W 9771 00263 0069 +226 +224 065013 014 003 009 00
172200 1225N 05857W 9769 00268 0072 +225 +225 054011 012 003 009 03
172230 1223N 05856W 9772 00265 0074 +225 +225 055011 011 003 009 00
172300 1222N 05855W 9775 00264 0075 +229 +227 058012 012 000 010 03
172330 1221N 05853W 9768 00269 0073 +229 +228 051011 012 002 010 00
172400 1220N 05852W 9769 00267 0072 +229 +229 051011 012 001 009 00
172430 1219N 05851W 9771 00265 0073 +230 +229 053012 012 000 010 00
172500 1218N 05850W 9767 00269 0072 +229 +229 049012 013 001 009 00
172530 1216N 05849W 9771 00265 0073 +229 +227 046013 013 003 009 00
172600 1215N 05848W 9764 00272 0073 +227 +227 038011 012 000 010 00
172630 1214N 05847W 9775 00259 0070 +229 +229 043011 012 001 009 00
172700 1213N 05846W 9766 00267 0069 +229 +229 045010 011 001 010 03
172730 1212N 05845W 9774 00263 0073 +230 +230 045011 011 002 009 00
172800 1210N 05844W 9770 00267 0071 +230 +230 046011 012 000 010 00
172830 1209N 05843W 9768 00268 0072 +229 +229 036011 012 000 010 00
172900 1208N 05842W 9769 00267 0072 +229 +229 035010 011 000 029 03
172930 1207N 05841W 9773 00262 0072 +230 +230 041010 011 000 023 03
173000 1206N 05840W 9768 00267 0072 +228 +228 025011 013 000 010 03
$$
AF303 01DDA INVEST HDOB 13 20070801
172030 1228N 05900W 9774 00250 0059 +226 +226 058010 011 000 009 00
172100 1227N 05859W 9773 00257 0065 +225 +225 061012 013 001 010 00
172130 1226N 05858W 9771 00263 0069 +226 +224 065013 014 003 009 00
172200 1225N 05857W 9769 00268 0072 +225 +225 054011 012 003 009 03
172230 1223N 05856W 9772 00265 0074 +225 +225 055011 011 003 009 00
172300 1222N 05855W 9775 00264 0075 +229 +227 058012 012 000 010 03
172330 1221N 05853W 9768 00269 0073 +229 +228 051011 012 002 010 00
172400 1220N 05852W 9769 00267 0072 +229 +229 051011 012 001 009 00
172430 1219N 05851W 9771 00265 0073 +230 +229 053012 012 000 010 00
172500 1218N 05850W 9767 00269 0072 +229 +229 049012 013 001 009 00
172530 1216N 05849W 9771 00265 0073 +229 +227 046013 013 003 009 00
172600 1215N 05848W 9764 00272 0073 +227 +227 038011 012 000 010 00
172630 1214N 05847W 9775 00259 0070 +229 +229 043011 012 001 009 00
172700 1213N 05846W 9766 00267 0069 +229 +229 045010 011 001 010 03
172730 1212N 05845W 9774 00263 0073 +230 +230 045011 011 002 009 00
172800 1210N 05844W 9770 00267 0071 +230 +230 046011 012 000 010 00
172830 1209N 05843W 9768 00268 0072 +229 +229 036011 012 000 010 00
172900 1208N 05842W 9769 00267 0072 +229 +229 035010 011 000 029 03
172930 1207N 05841W 9773 00262 0072 +230 +230 041010 011 000 023 03
173000 1206N 05840W 9768 00267 0072 +228 +228 025011 013 000 010 03
$$
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- bvigal
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Re: 99L Recon Thread
OK guys, you already have a thread to play Chattie Cathy about what you think or don't think this system will do. This thread is RECON.
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Re: 99L Recon Thread
bvigal wrote:OK guys, you already have a thread to play Chattie Cathy about what you think or don't think this system will do. This thread is RECON.
That thread is locked. I would have posted my thoughts over there if it wasn't closed. I'm discussing the relevant details about the reconnaissance aircraft obs.
http://storm2k.org/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=96619&sid=2c699dbca94faa56e983836cdbb30f53
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Chat is open to discuss recon, leave this thread for the obs - http://windows.esper.net/publicirc/irc.cgi
1) Change your nickname to "s2k_<NICK here>"
2) Change "#esper" to "#storm2k".
Don't use the s2k link, as that connects people as clones of Chad.
NOTE - IF YOUR PAGE STOPS LOADING, PLEASE REFRESH AND REJOIN. THAT MEANS THAT THE SERVER IS NO LONGER READING DATA FROM YOU. Java does not have this problem.
1) Change your nickname to "s2k_<NICK here>"
2) Change "#esper" to "#storm2k".
Don't use the s2k link, as that connects people as clones of Chad.
NOTE - IF YOUR PAGE STOPS LOADING, PLEASE REFRESH AND REJOIN. THAT MEANS THAT THE SERVER IS NO LONGER READING DATA FROM YOU. Java does not have this problem.
Last edited by Chacor on Wed Aug 01, 2007 12:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re:
Chacor wrote:Chat is open to discuss recon, leave this thread for the obs - http://windows.esper.net/publicirc/irc.cgi
1) Change your nickname to "s2k_<NICK here>"
2) Change "#esper" to "#storm2k".
Don't use the s2k link, as that connects people as clones of Chad.
Thanks. I was wondering where I could discuss the obs...
Thanks to Chacor and bvigal!
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- chris_fit
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Re: 99L Recon Thread
Why was that thread locked? I honestly enjoy reading the opinions of members of this forum instead of reading through all those numbers or trying to decode while at work.... 

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- SouthFloridawx
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Re: 99L Recon Thread
URNT15 KNHC 011738
AF303 01DDA INVEST HDOB 14 20070801
173030 1204N 05839W 9784 00253 0071 +228 +228 026009 011 000 009 03
173100 1203N 05838W 9764 00275 0073 +226 +226 024011 012 001 036 03
173130 1202N 05837W 9779 00259 0074 +230 +230 018007 009 001 009 00
173200 1201N 05836W 9770 00268 0073 +230 +230 040008 008 000 043 03
173230 1200N 05835W 9775 00267 0080 +225 +225 070007 008 019 074 00
173300 1159N 05833W 9767 00273 0076 +230 +230 053007 008 000 009 03
173330 1157N 05832W 9768 00273 0077 +233 +224 058009 010 001 009 00
173400 1156N 05831W 9771 00269 0077 +232 +225 073010 011 000 010 00
173430 1155N 05830W 9768 00273 0079 +229 +229 069008 011 000 010 00
173500 1154N 05829W 9771 00270 0078 +229 +229 064003 003 000 036 03
173530 1153N 05828W 9768 00273 0078 +230 +230 055003 004 000 010 00
173600 1152N 05827W 9767 00273 0076 +232 +229 042004 004 000 045 03
173630 1151N 05826W 9772 00265 0076 +229 +229 025003 003 000 010 00
173700 1149N 05825W 9774 00265 0077 +229 +229 028002 003 000 016 00
173730 1148N 05824W 9771 00270 0077 +230 +227 027003 004 000 009 00
173800 1147N 05823W 9772 00267 0075 +230 +225 013001 002 000 009 00
173830 1146N 05822W 9772 00265 0074 +231 +219 352001 002 000 009 03
173900 1146N 05820W 9774 00264 0074 +230 +225 242003 003 000 027 03
173930 1146N 05818W 9772 00282 0085 +229 +229 242004 004 018 083 03
174000 1146N 05817W 9773 00286 0098 +225 +225 236005 006 020 015 03
$$
153
URNT11 KNHC 011735
97779 17354 40119 58400 03100 99005 23238 /0008 49905
RMK AF303 01DDA INVEST OB 07
FC = 8
AF303 01DDA INVEST HDOB 14 20070801
173030 1204N 05839W 9784 00253 0071 +228 +228 026009 011 000 009 03
173100 1203N 05838W 9764 00275 0073 +226 +226 024011 012 001 036 03
173130 1202N 05837W 9779 00259 0074 +230 +230 018007 009 001 009 00
173200 1201N 05836W 9770 00268 0073 +230 +230 040008 008 000 043 03
173230 1200N 05835W 9775 00267 0080 +225 +225 070007 008 019 074 00
173300 1159N 05833W 9767 00273 0076 +230 +230 053007 008 000 009 03
173330 1157N 05832W 9768 00273 0077 +233 +224 058009 010 001 009 00
173400 1156N 05831W 9771 00269 0077 +232 +225 073010 011 000 010 00
173430 1155N 05830W 9768 00273 0079 +229 +229 069008 011 000 010 00
173500 1154N 05829W 9771 00270 0078 +229 +229 064003 003 000 036 03
173530 1153N 05828W 9768 00273 0078 +230 +230 055003 004 000 010 00
173600 1152N 05827W 9767 00273 0076 +232 +229 042004 004 000 045 03
173630 1151N 05826W 9772 00265 0076 +229 +229 025003 003 000 010 00
173700 1149N 05825W 9774 00265 0077 +229 +229 028002 003 000 016 00
173730 1148N 05824W 9771 00270 0077 +230 +227 027003 004 000 009 00
173800 1147N 05823W 9772 00267 0075 +230 +225 013001 002 000 009 00
173830 1146N 05822W 9772 00265 0074 +231 +219 352001 002 000 009 03
173900 1146N 05820W 9774 00264 0074 +230 +225 242003 003 000 027 03
173930 1146N 05818W 9772 00282 0085 +229 +229 242004 004 018 083 03
174000 1146N 05817W 9773 00286 0098 +225 +225 236005 006 020 015 03
$$
153
URNT11 KNHC 011735
97779 17354 40119 58400 03100 99005 23238 /0008 49905
RMK AF303 01DDA INVEST OB 07
FC = 8
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- Tropical Storm
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Re: 99L Recon Thread
MiamiensisWx wrote:bvigal wrote:OK guys, you already have a thread to play Chattie Cathy about what you think or don't think this system will do. This thread is RECON.
That thread is locked. I would have posted my thoughts over there if it wasn't closed. I'm discussing the relevant details about the reconnaissance aircraft obs.
http://storm2k.org/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=96619&sid=2c699dbca94faa56e983836cdbb30f53
Any reason why the discussion thread is locked? Don't we usually have one thread for obs, and another for discussion?
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- x-y-no
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Re: 99L Recon Thread
Windsurfer_NYC wrote:MiamiensisWx wrote:bvigal wrote:OK guys, you already have a thread to play Chattie Cathy about what you think or don't think this system will do. This thread is RECON.
That thread is locked. I would have posted my thoughts over there if it wasn't closed. I'm discussing the relevant details about the reconnaissance aircraft obs.
http://storm2k.org/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=96619&sid=2c699dbca94faa56e983836cdbb30f53
Any reason why the discussion thread is locked? Don't we usually have one thread for obs, and another for discussion?
I don't know ... Chad locked it - I'm not gonna argue with him.

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- SouthFloridawx
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Re: 99L Recon Thread
Usually we have the recon discussion thread so that the Recon Data isn't buried pages back, because of discussion about it.
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- Professional-Met
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Re: 99L Recon Thread
Windsurfer_NYC wrote:MiamiensisWx wrote:bvigal wrote:OK guys, you already have a thread to play Chattie Cathy about what you think or don't think this system will do. This thread is RECON.
That thread is locked. I would have posted my thoughts over there if it wasn't closed. I'm discussing the relevant details about the reconnaissance aircraft obs.
http://storm2k.org/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=96619&sid=2c699dbca94faa56e983836cdbb30f53
Any reason why the discussion thread is locked? Don't we usually have one thread for obs, and another for discussion?
I thought so.
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Let's get this thread back on track!
386
URNT15 KNHC 011748
AF303 01DDA INVEST HDOB 15 20070801
174030 1146N 05815W 9763 00292 0098 +225 +225 240006 007 010 013 03
174100 1144N 05814W 9775 00286 0100 +227 +227 237005 006 019 081 00
174130 1143N 05813W 9767 00295 0101 +230 +228 246005 006 020 079 00
174200 1142N 05812W 9777 00286 0102 +225 +225 235004 004 019 014 00
174230 1141N 05811W 9766 00296 0102 +220 +220 239005 005 022 014 00
174300 1140N 05809W 9770 00289 0100 +220 +220 255005 005 021 015 00
174330 1139N 05808W 9771 00289 0100 +220 +220 265005 006 025 016 00
174400 1138N 05807W 9770 00290 0100 +224 +224 240005 006 021 016 00
174430 1137N 05806W 9776 00284 0099 +222 +222 213005 005 020 082 00
174500 1136N 05805W 9767 00291 0098 +226 +222 228005 006 019 071 00
174530 1135N 05804W 9772 00289 0101 +226 +221 218006 007 018 072 03
174600 1134N 05803W 9770 00292 0102 +224 +224 213005 006 003 017 00
174630 1132N 05801W 9768 00295 0103 +228 +217 211006 007 000 010 00
174700 1131N 05800W 9773 00295 0107 +227 +216 206007 008 000 035 03
174730 1130N 05759W 9770 00297 0106 +228 +217 211007 008 000 009 03
174800 1129N 05758W 9771 00292 0103 +227 +219 201007 007 000 010 00
174830 1128N 05757W 9769 00295 0104 +230 +218 186007 007 000 009 00
174900 1127N 05756W 9774 00296 0110 +230 +218 192007 008 000 010 03
174930 1126N 05755W 9770 00296 0108 +228 +221 195010 010 000 042 03
175000 1125N 05754W 9772 00289 0102 +227 +224 194012 012 000 010 03
$$
386
URNT15 KNHC 011748
AF303 01DDA INVEST HDOB 15 20070801
174030 1146N 05815W 9763 00292 0098 +225 +225 240006 007 010 013 03
174100 1144N 05814W 9775 00286 0100 +227 +227 237005 006 019 081 00
174130 1143N 05813W 9767 00295 0101 +230 +228 246005 006 020 079 00
174200 1142N 05812W 9777 00286 0102 +225 +225 235004 004 019 014 00
174230 1141N 05811W 9766 00296 0102 +220 +220 239005 005 022 014 00
174300 1140N 05809W 9770 00289 0100 +220 +220 255005 005 021 015 00
174330 1139N 05808W 9771 00289 0100 +220 +220 265005 006 025 016 00
174400 1138N 05807W 9770 00290 0100 +224 +224 240005 006 021 016 00
174430 1137N 05806W 9776 00284 0099 +222 +222 213005 005 020 082 00
174500 1136N 05805W 9767 00291 0098 +226 +222 228005 006 019 071 00
174530 1135N 05804W 9772 00289 0101 +226 +221 218006 007 018 072 03
174600 1134N 05803W 9770 00292 0102 +224 +224 213005 006 003 017 00
174630 1132N 05801W 9768 00295 0103 +228 +217 211006 007 000 010 00
174700 1131N 05800W 9773 00295 0107 +227 +216 206007 008 000 035 03
174730 1130N 05759W 9770 00297 0106 +228 +217 211007 008 000 009 03
174800 1129N 05758W 9771 00292 0103 +227 +219 201007 007 000 010 00
174830 1128N 05757W 9769 00295 0104 +230 +218 186007 007 000 009 00
174900 1127N 05756W 9774 00296 0110 +230 +218 192007 008 000 010 03
174930 1126N 05755W 9770 00296 0108 +228 +221 195010 010 000 042 03
175000 1125N 05754W 9772 00289 0102 +227 +224 194012 012 000 010 03
$$
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Re: 99L Recon Thread
I don't know ... Chad locked it - I'm not gonna argue with him.
[/quote]
Feel free to unlock it if I did wrong.. I just thought one recon thread was for the obs and would discuss them in the regular 99L thread.. I just dont remember how it went last year

Feel free to unlock it if I did wrong.. I just thought one recon thread was for the obs and would discuss them in the regular 99L thread.. I just dont remember how it went last year
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Re: 99L Recon Thread
612
URNT15 KNHC 011758
AF303 01DDA INVEST HDOB 16 20070801
175030 1124N 05752W 9772 00291 0102 +231 +220 196013 013 000 010 00
175100 1123N 05751W 9771 00292 0102 +231 +224 195013 014 000 010 00
175130 1122N 05750W 9768 00293 0104 +227 +227 204010 011 000 016 03
175200 1121N 05749W 9772 00293 0107 +225 +225 207011 011 000 010 03
175230 1120N 05748W 9770 00296 0107 +227 +227 200011 011 000 016 03
175300 1119N 05747W 9772 00289 0101 +226 +226 202010 010 000 044 03
175330 1118N 05746W 9771 00292 0100 +228 +228 199010 011 000 010 00
175400 1117N 05744W 9769 00295 0105 +230 +229 200010 010 000 009 00
175430 1116N 05743W 9769 00296 0106 +230 +228 205010 010 000 009 03
175500 1115N 05742W 9774 00292 0106 +235 +228 201010 010 000 009 00
175530 1114N 05741W 9768 00296 0105 +233 +228 198008 009 000 010 00
175600 1113N 05740W 9772 00293 0106 +233 +228 204007 007 000 016 00
175630 1112N 05739W 9771 00295 0105 +234 +229 196008 009 000 010 00
175700 1111N 05738W 9771 00297 0107 +235 +227 202009 010 000 010 03
175730 1110N 05736W 9772 00296 0107 +238 +217 202011 012 000 010 00
175800 1109N 05735W 9754 00310 0107 +237 +212 201011 012 001 009 00
175830 1107N 05734W 9776 00295 0111 +238 +220 193011 011 001 009 03
175900 1106N 05733W 9771 00302 0111 +237 +222 191011 011 000 010 00
175930 1105N 05732W 9768 00303 0113 +237 +218 193011 011 000 009 00
180000 1104N 05730W 9772 00304 0117 +238 +218 195010 010 000 010 00
$$
URNT15 KNHC 011758
AF303 01DDA INVEST HDOB 16 20070801
175030 1124N 05752W 9772 00291 0102 +231 +220 196013 013 000 010 00
175100 1123N 05751W 9771 00292 0102 +231 +224 195013 014 000 010 00
175130 1122N 05750W 9768 00293 0104 +227 +227 204010 011 000 016 03
175200 1121N 05749W 9772 00293 0107 +225 +225 207011 011 000 010 03
175230 1120N 05748W 9770 00296 0107 +227 +227 200011 011 000 016 03
175300 1119N 05747W 9772 00289 0101 +226 +226 202010 010 000 044 03
175330 1118N 05746W 9771 00292 0100 +228 +228 199010 011 000 010 00
175400 1117N 05744W 9769 00295 0105 +230 +229 200010 010 000 009 00
175430 1116N 05743W 9769 00296 0106 +230 +228 205010 010 000 009 03
175500 1115N 05742W 9774 00292 0106 +235 +228 201010 010 000 009 00
175530 1114N 05741W 9768 00296 0105 +233 +228 198008 009 000 010 00
175600 1113N 05740W 9772 00293 0106 +233 +228 204007 007 000 016 00
175630 1112N 05739W 9771 00295 0105 +234 +229 196008 009 000 010 00
175700 1111N 05738W 9771 00297 0107 +235 +227 202009 010 000 010 03
175730 1110N 05736W 9772 00296 0107 +238 +217 202011 012 000 010 00
175800 1109N 05735W 9754 00310 0107 +237 +212 201011 012 001 009 00
175830 1107N 05734W 9776 00295 0111 +238 +220 193011 011 001 009 03
175900 1106N 05733W 9771 00302 0111 +237 +222 191011 011 000 010 00
175930 1105N 05732W 9768 00303 0113 +237 +218 193011 011 000 009 00
180000 1104N 05730W 9772 00304 0117 +238 +218 195010 010 000 010 00
$$
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- dixiebreeze
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Re: 99L Recon Thread
Wed Aug 01 2007
1735 GMT
Latitude 11.9 N
Longitude 58.4 W
No turbulence
Currently flying in the clear
Flight altitude 1017 feet (310 meters)
Flight level winds 990 degrees at 5 knots (5 mph)
Temperature 23 C Dewpoint 23 C
Surface Pressure 1008 millibars
Remarks: AF303 01DDA INVEST OB 07
Wed Aug 01 2007
1719 GMT
Latitude 12.4 N
Longitude 59.0 W
No turbulence
Currently flying in the clear
Flight altitude 1017 feet (310 meters)
Flight level winds 50 degrees at 12 knots (13 mph)
Temperature 22 C Dewpoint 22 C
Surface Pressure 1006 millibars
Remarks: AF303 01DDA INVEST OB 06
Wed Aug 01 2007
1715 GMT
Latitude 12.6 N
Longitude 59.1 W
No turbulence
Currently flying in the clear
Flight altitude 984 feet (300 meters)
Flight level winds 70 degrees at 19 knots (21 mph)
Temperature 23 C Dewpoint 22 C
Surface Pressure 1006 millibars
Remarks: AF303 01DDA INVEST OB 05
Wed Aug 01 2007
1700 GMT
Latitude 12.9 N
Longitude 59.7 W
No turbulence
Currently flying in the clear
Flight altitude 1017 feet (310 meters)
Flight level winds 70 degrees at 20 knots (23 mph)
Temperature 23 C Dewpoint 22 C
Surface Pressure 1009 millibars
Remarks: AF303 01DDA INVEST OB 04
Wed Aug 01 2007
1630 GMT
Latitude 14.5 N
Longitude 60.9 W
No turbulence
Currently flying in the clear
Flight altitude 22967 feet (7000 meters)
Flight level winds 990 degrees at 5 knots (5 mph)
Temperature -14 C Dewpoint -99 C
Remarks: AF303 01DDA INVEST OB 02
Wed Aug 01 2007
1600 GMT
Latitude 16.2 N
Longitude 62.9 W
No turbulence
Currently flying in the clear
Flight altitude 22999 feet (7010 meters)
Flight level winds 80 degrees at 26 knots (29 mph)
Temperature -16 C Dewpoint -46 C
Remarks: AF303 01DDA INVEST OB 01
1735 GMT
Latitude 11.9 N
Longitude 58.4 W
No turbulence
Currently flying in the clear
Flight altitude 1017 feet (310 meters)
Flight level winds 990 degrees at 5 knots (5 mph)
Temperature 23 C Dewpoint 23 C
Surface Pressure 1008 millibars
Remarks: AF303 01DDA INVEST OB 07
Wed Aug 01 2007
1719 GMT
Latitude 12.4 N
Longitude 59.0 W
No turbulence
Currently flying in the clear
Flight altitude 1017 feet (310 meters)
Flight level winds 50 degrees at 12 knots (13 mph)
Temperature 22 C Dewpoint 22 C
Surface Pressure 1006 millibars
Remarks: AF303 01DDA INVEST OB 06
Wed Aug 01 2007
1715 GMT
Latitude 12.6 N
Longitude 59.1 W
No turbulence
Currently flying in the clear
Flight altitude 984 feet (300 meters)
Flight level winds 70 degrees at 19 knots (21 mph)
Temperature 23 C Dewpoint 22 C
Surface Pressure 1006 millibars
Remarks: AF303 01DDA INVEST OB 05
Wed Aug 01 2007
1700 GMT
Latitude 12.9 N
Longitude 59.7 W
No turbulence
Currently flying in the clear
Flight altitude 1017 feet (310 meters)
Flight level winds 70 degrees at 20 knots (23 mph)
Temperature 23 C Dewpoint 22 C
Surface Pressure 1009 millibars
Remarks: AF303 01DDA INVEST OB 04
Wed Aug 01 2007
1630 GMT
Latitude 14.5 N
Longitude 60.9 W
No turbulence
Currently flying in the clear
Flight altitude 22967 feet (7000 meters)
Flight level winds 990 degrees at 5 knots (5 mph)
Temperature -14 C Dewpoint -99 C
Remarks: AF303 01DDA INVEST OB 02
Wed Aug 01 2007
1600 GMT
Latitude 16.2 N
Longitude 62.9 W
No turbulence
Currently flying in the clear
Flight altitude 22999 feet (7010 meters)
Flight level winds 80 degrees at 26 knots (29 mph)
Temperature -16 C Dewpoint -46 C
Remarks: AF303 01DDA INVEST OB 01
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- brunota2003
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Re: 99L Recon Thread
chadtm80 wrote:I don't know ... Chad locked it - I'm not gonna argue with him.
Feel free to unlock it if I did wrong.. I just thought one recon thread was for the obs and would discuss them in the regular 99L thread.. I just dont remember how it went last year[/quote]
Yea, last year we had one thread for obs and another, seperate thread for discussing things...made life easy


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