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[Frank P]

Well I read through all these posts and it just amazes me how some "JUST DON"T GET IT"

Katrina was so much more worse than Camille is not even comparable... I live directly on the beach... thoughout the life of my neighborhood, established in the early 1920s we had NEVER lost a house on the beach, Camille did not destroy ONE SINGLE HOUSE... Katrina totally destroyed 12 of 13 homes...only one could be rebuilt...

And hell no I really don't expect another Katrina type storm in my lifetime to destroy my house.. but can it happen, of course.... it was perhaps the greatest storm surge ever recorded in the US... this storm destroyed homes that has been on the coast for over 150 years. this storm destroyed homes from surge 10 miles inland... NO ONE along the MS coast expected surges to reach 30 feet plus... I certainly didn't.. heck Camille only put 2 feet of water in my house.... and it was one of the most powerful hurricanes ever to hit the US...

Another thing, I can almost guarantee that I built my new house better and stronger than most homes built in the US.. I went 10 feet above the flood elevation levels... even Jim Cantore toured my house and was very impressed by how I built it and even mentioned my house in a news article that was written about him... and it wasn't cheap nor easy.. I lost a lot of sleep over this effort... even with me doing alot of the work and all of the contracting... and you know how many new homes have been build in my neighborhood...ONE... mine... but should I move because of the threat of a hurricane... I will as soon as all the California residents leave Cal because of earthquakes... and the Kansas residents because of tornadoes, blab, blab, blab... get real

[floridian]

I will as soon as all the California residents leave Cal because of earthquakes... and the Kansas residents because of tornadoes, blab, blab, blab... get real

And Oklahoma residents due to tropical storms.

I have three observations to make after reading this thread in its entirety:

- No place is 100% safe.

- No personal catastrophe is worse than another's personal catastrophe (even when experienced within a greater event).

- Most people have compassion and empathy to understand without having to be first-hand witnesses to an event.

[mf_dolphin]

Frank there's no doubt that Katrina was far worse but the fact is that a Katrina can and probably will happen again. It may not happen there but it is inevitable IMO. Living here in St Pete and only about 7 short city blocks from the Gulf I know that it's a possibility here as well. A 30 foot surge would put my whole house underwater. If it happened I would also rebuild because I love it here pure and simple. The risk is there and I accept that as a cost of living here.

[Downdraft]

Everyday you have is a gift and you should treat it so. What we have today can all be gone tomorrow and that includes our lives. Hug your kids, kiss your spouse or significant other and thank your lucky stars you had today and hope you have tomorrow. There are no promises and there are no guarantees. All things have a beginning and all things have an end. It can come as a funnel cloud an eye wall or anything in between.

[Ixolib]

I understand! I went through three myself in 2004. I now you guys got messed up pretty bad. I just don't understand why the rebuilding is taking so long...

Going through "three wind events" is NOT the same as going through - and recovering from - a single surge event. Apples and oranges. The comparison simply will not equate.

[crazycajuncane]

I can see where tolakram is coming from with some of his posts, but some of his wording is rather choice and I can see how it could piss some people off.

I live in Lafayette, Louisiana a good 20 miles from the coast of Louisiana. Hurricane Lil struck the coast barreling down as a 4 or 5, but lost strenghth and came inland as like a Category 1-2 as the very most. There were towns 30 miles inland that saw incredible wind damage!

It don't matter where you live, there is a possibility for anything. What if you told people to stop building on the coast of Louisiana / Mississippi for the next 30 years and not a single major hurricane hit the area?

There are some areas of the U.S. that flood several times in a persons life and they live in a flood prone area, but they stay. People stay in tornado valley, earthquake alley... the list goes on.

The real solution would be for our government to get its' act together. Katrina flooding may have been avoided. I use my words carefully... MAY.

If New Orleans didn't flood then we are talking a whole new ball game here. The levees broke after the storm passed.

There were homes past I-10 and that's WELL freakin inland that had damage from "Category 3 Katrina" soooo.... while your arguements make sense... they can be disputed tolakram.

I am not going to post in this thread again, I just feel that some people have a right to get upset when they are attacked for where they live. What is our government going to do if a Cat.3 hits New York? I bet they react 100,000 times better than they did for New Orleans. Louisiana and Mississippi are often left to having to do things on their own.

Come talk to people in SW LA for Hurricane Rita. They couldn't trust that anyone was going to rescue them so neighbors got in their own boats and rescued each other. That's what we have to do, cause FEMA would wait a week!

[Coredesat]

This thread has become a flamewar between those who survived Katrina and those who were in other storms. I think it should be locked.

[Downdraft]

Well without any doubt the coast versus inland arguement is not valid. Tropical systems can cause massive flooding well inland. Example Agnes that caused more damage as an inland flood event in Pennsylvannia, Washington and surrounding areas than it did as a hurricane when it hit the coast. Floyd another good example where damage and fatalities well inland (several hundred miles) was greater than than they were along the coast. Hurricanes Ivan and Katrina caused massive storm surges unprecedented in Gulf history. It seems you have two issues here one, people have to live somewhere so if they live along the Gulf because either they choose to or they have to bottom line is they are there. Unless your going to build some kind of a seawall system ala, Galveston you better be prepared for it to happen again. But, if you can't save the property there is no excuse to lose the people.
Someone said after Katrina, "Camille killed even more people tonight." No, he wasn't confused what he meant was the attitude was always Camille set the standard and if we survived her and everything since we won't worry about Katrina. That attitude killed a lot of people. They should have left they stayed. Finally you have the issue of recovery and in that sense we failed miserably. No sense pointing out who failed the list is long and distinguished. The people of the Gulf coast deserved better than they got and still should get. I don't think anyone is looking for a free ride or a handout but they should get at least something to rebuild their towns, their neighborhoods, their businesses and their lives. Katrina isn't just a regional problem it's an American problem and how we deal with it now or with the Katrina's of the future says a lot about where American's put their own core values as a people. If we truely have degenerated as a people where we say the hell with the other guy it's not my problem then we've lost touch with our roots.

[Cookiely]

I know people were working i relize that but i dont understand how the difference comes in and why they are already up and running again and here in the us when this happens we are down for months, do we not take storms serious or something, i'm not critizening you or anyone around you, i know you guys went through alot but i also know if dean had hit us we would be so devestated here, or is maybe the news not being told like it really is in mexico, i have been watching the weather channel most of the time, i am sorry for offending you and so sorry for your loses, please forgive my ignorance on what is going on out there best of luck, and my you never be hit again in the gulf but we know as we live in coastal areas that we always stand that chance so we need to be ready no matter what they say is coming we always need to prepair for the worse and hope for the best

Perhaps the difference is a tin shack and a very small store in Mexico is easier to get up and running than a multi-million dollar gulf home and a walmart. Just a thought.

[tolakram]

I can see where tolakram is coming from with some of his posts, but some of his wording is rather choice and I can see how it could piss some people off.

I'm sorry if I chose the wrong words. It's a tough subject and I think the fact is no one whose experienced a hurricane wants to hear what I say. I wouldn't either.

10 years ago I was ignorant of hurricane flood damage. A hurricane was wind and all damage was wind damage. A LOT of wind damage was due to homes not being built to code or a bad code. This was a fixable problem. Andrew revealed how a home built correctly could survive while a poorly constructed one right next door would be flattened. This was mainly due to a chain reaction that happened after the roof was compromised. It's not perfect, but we can do a lot better. A house might not ever survive a cat 5, but cat 5's hitting land are very rare. It's back to the risk #'s again.

You can't build for a surge though. If your house is hit by a wall of water it's gone. It's a very different issue, in my mind anyway, and I'm specifically addressing surge damage, not wind damage.

Well without any doubt the coast versus inland arguement is not valid. Tropical systems can cause massive flooding well inland.

Most of that flooding occurs in flood plains, and again it's back to a risk %. I used to live a few miles north in Fairfield Ohio. It had a 100 year flood back when a tropical system moved north and stalled over the Cincinnati area. As a result of the flooding there was a change to the way neighborhoods were constructed. Developers can no longer build next to creeks without managing the water flow and having a plan for a 100 year flood. Communities generally don't deal with the problem until the flooding happens so we'll continue to see a repeat of the same kinds of flooding again and again. Take a look at northern Ohio right now with the remains of Erin.

I have pointed out numerous times that no location is 100% safe, it's all about risk %. Coast development radically increases the risk not only for the coast but also for the people living further away from the coast. Someone living 50 miles away from an undeveloped coast might be safe from the storm surge today, but tomorrow someone could develop that land, removing the natural barriers, and put that same person at a much higher risk. This is what happened along the gulf coast. Low lands, no barrier, nothing to stop the surge.

[Bluefrog]

I'm leaving the board today for the rest of the season. I was sent a warning by MF_Dolphin last night for one of my comments that was in this thread or the "boring" one for stating that I thought 3 members might be one in the same or insurance adjusters. I'm not going to be bashed and then sent a warning because I am defending myself or anyone else who went thru Katrina.

[Frank P]

""You can't build for a surge though. If your house is hit by a wall of water it's gone. It's a very different issue, in my mind anyway, and I'm specifically addressing surge damage, not wind damage. ""


The only way to build for surge it to go up above it if possible... my house is now above the Katrina surge... it is not possible for everyone to go up that high, nor can everyone afford to go up that high, nor want to go up because of the problems it presents in building or accessing... older folks don't deal with steps well.. for example, my mother can't come into my new house until I get an elevator.. which is not cheap ... so there are costs with going up.. but you can if that's how you want to live... of course its a personal choice...

If Katrina were to hit Biloxi right now I fully expect my house to survive... the water would NOT destroy it because it is above the surge line... at best I would lose my front stairs... provided of course a tornado doesn't take out the house... and you will always have that risk, which has nothing to do with being on the beach...

My city inspector just completed his final inspections on my house... he told me it that he will be really interested in how the house performs in the next big storm... one of few that is on his radar to monitor because of the way it was built...

Bottom line, no house is hurricane proof, some are hurricane resistant, there are no guarantees in life for anything... enjoy it while you can... and let me tell all... I am absolutely enjoying the heck out of my new house and its most incredible view of the GOM....

[tolakram]

bluefrog:

I'm a software engineering manager. I don't like insurance agencies, not one bit. I don't like the fact that people had hurricane insurance but could not make claims because of flooding from the hurricane. That's just wrong.

--Mark

[Ixolib]

.....I don't like the fact that people had hurricane insurance but could not make claims because of flooding from the hurricane. That's just wrong.
--Mark

Yaa!!! That's among the most sensible posts of this entire thread.

[jasons2k]

I'm afraid that even building "up" won't do much good. When you have things like boats, cars, etc. being pushed by the surge, as they crash into the stilts/pilings, it will subsequently bring the whole structure down. I hate to sound gloom & doom, but I'm afraid that will be the reality of a future similar surge.

[jasons2k]

One other point, all disaster risks are not created equal. Time and time again people are commenting that living in tornado alley is just as risky/deadly as living in a hurricane zone....i.e., living in Kansas in no safer than living in Key West. That's not true. Hurricanes win, hands down, in terms of economic losses and casualties by a LONG SHOT. In fact, in the US, Tornadoes account for only 1% of total economic losses while hurricanes account for 37% - and is was pre-2004 data. And yes insurance companies do use this data to evaluate risk, like it or not.

[Steve]

>>My city inspector just completed his final inspections on my house... he told me it that he will be really interested in how the house performs in the next big storm... one of few that is on his radar to monitor because of the way it was built...

I'm surprised with your contacts, you didn't work on an RFP or some type of government grant to study the issue. You are the only house there. Your inspector isn'tthe only one would would like to see how the house performs.

Steve

[Frank P]

I'm afraid that even building "up" won't do much good. When you have things like boats, cars, etc. being pushed by the surge, as they crash into the stilts/pilings, it will subsequently bring the whole structure down. I hate to sound gloom & doom, but I'm afraid that will be the reality of a future similar surge.

Not necessarly true... I have two monster Oaks in my front yard.. unless its an ocean going ship no small shrimp boat is going to cause me any damage... besides we didn't have any boats within 5 miles on either side of my house that came in with the storm surge.. you don't find many people out in boats in the MS sound with a Cat 5 heading inland... , except the Casino Barges... and they are all gone now and won't be coming back, at least in my area... .. there will be no cars either, all the cars will be north of me.. unless someone parks and abandons their car in the parking bay accross the highway... then I'll just tow it down the street but that is not going to happen... naw, I am now much more worried about severe winds blowing off my roof or causing my great Oaks to topple an smash my house than I am about anything crashing into my pilings ... at least where I live.. I still have plenty to worry about regardless... that's why I have insurance...

[Frank P]

>>My city inspector just completed his final inspections on my house... he told me it that he will be really interested in how the house performs in the next big storm... one of few that is on his radar to monitor because of the way it was built...

I'm surprised with your contacts, you didn't work on an RFP or some type of government grant to study the issue. You are the only house there. Your inspector isn'tthe only one would would like to see how the house performs.

Steve

boy only I wish Steve... I am still hoping to get some grant money to help pay for the costs of going up... it cost me about 35K extra to get that 10 above the ground... I was NOT in a flood zone so I don't qualify per the NFIP... If I were to lose my house from a Cat 1 storm you guys would never hear from me again either...

[storms in NC]

>>My city inspector just completed his final inspections on my house... he told me it that he will be really interested in how the house performs in the next big storm... one of few that is on his radar to monitor because of the way it was built...

I'm surprised with your contacts, you didn't work on an RFP or some type of government grant to study the issue. You are the only house there. Your inspector isn'tthe only one would would like to see how the house performs.

Steve

boy only I wish Steve... I am still hoping to get some grant money to help pay for the costs of going up... it cost me about 35K extra to get that 10 above the ground... I was NOT in a flood zone so I don't qualify per the NFIP... If I were to lose my house from a Cat 1 storm you guys would never hear from me again either...

Well that happen to me. Good old Floyd Boy was I think a cat 1 when he came ashore. Lost everything. But it was dew to water. Left home in a boat. But We have raised the house up to 4 feet. that should help. I hope.