Katrina Anniversary Thread

[sarah bellum]

I moved away from the Gulf Coast after Katrina. I am reaching an age where I will no longer be able to just start over again.

I looked at how it affected my (in their 70's) parents and I knew I didn't want to be going through that in my waning years on this earth. My father's health has been impacted severely due to the hurricane.

That being said I don't think my decision to leave is more valid than those who chose to stay. I thank God for those who stay and this nation should too.

John M. Barry is the author of Rising Tide. He writes that nature did not make New Orleans vulnerable to hurricanes, we humans did. The ocean was reached northward to Missouri but the Mississippi River deposited enough sediment to create the land from there to the sea. Then to protect property along the entire Mississippi valley we cut the sediment by 60 to 70% by protecting the river banks and the people that live near them. The Mississippi Valley stretched from New York to Idaho, North Carolina to New Mexico. It Includes the Arkansas and Missouri Rivers. Then to keep shipping channels open in the Port of New Orleans, we built jetties to shoot the remaining sentiment out into the gulf. No more new land being created. Unintended consequense-disasterous results.

Think the Port of New Orleans is only important to La.? The Mississippi makes Tulsa, Pittsburgh, Kansas City and others inland cities into ports with direct access to the Ocean...but they must go through New Orleans.

The oil industry cut canals through the wetlands ecosystem, basically destroying it by allowing saltwater intrusion. Now, the land that is there is being washed away...no vegetation to keep it there. Every mile of land can absorb one foot of storm surge and we've lost 2,100 square mile of it and lose more every single day. I've heard the map of Louisana is obsolete. We don't have the land that any current map shows. This loss of land has enormously changed how NO can handle hurricanes and storm surges.

More than one quarter of America's oil flows through SE LA. 11% of the nation's foreign oil flows through SE LA. 2% of the nation's strategic reserves flow through SE LA. Pipeline in SE LA connetct to 1/2 of the refining capacity in this country. Pipelines in SE LA carry 27% of the oil and 30% of the natural gas in this country by way of Port Fouchon. It takes working people for all that to happen, and houses for them to live in and schools to educate and hospitals to treat...you get the drift. And Port Fouchon is also threatened by subsidence and land loss. This is MAJOR and can affect EVERY American's pocketbook. No one wants this type of industry in their backyards.

Protecting people from floods and improving economies and far away as Montana and Pennsylvania makes life more dangerous in Louisiana. The whole nation benefits while New Orleans and Mississippi pays 100% of the price. 3 man-made shipping channels that create almost no jobs but carry shipping traffic from Houston to Florida, or ocean shipping from up north to down south were responsible for the flooding in St. Bernard, NO East, and the Lower 9th.

We all better hope someone decides to stay.

[seaswing]

The oil industry cut canals through the wetlands ecosystem, basically destroying it by allowing saltwater intrusion. Now, the land that is there is being washed away...no vegetation to keep it there. Every mile of land can absorb one foot of storm surge and we've lost 2,100 square mile of it and lose more every single day. I've heard the map of Louisana is obsolete. We don't have the land that any current map shows. This loss of land has enormously changed how NO can handle hurricanes and storm surges.We all better hope someone decides to stay.

I think I heard that every week there was a football field size piece of wetland lost. That was before Katrina though.

[duris]

I think I heard that every week there was a football size piece of wetland lost. That was before Katrina though.

On the Nova special i watched part of last night, it said a football field per HOUR. Amazing.

[LaPlaceFF]

The video I made right after Katrina:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujQwTQ8JnNc

That was an excellent video. I had a copy of it but lost it when my old computer crashed.
Thanks for sharing!!

[TSmith274]

the damage to Louisiana was not indirect damage. The surge broke and overtopped the levis; thus, it is direct surge damage; thus, it would be included in my proposal. Without the levis, the surge would have still caused the damage it did

Only if reconstruction of the structure was required would the rebuilding not be permitted in a surge zone (along with no new structures).

Well, that's not true. According to the Corp's own admission, the levees failed due to forces well below design specs. The levee walls along the outfall canals failed sometimes (only at the 9th ward) due to overtopping and scouring, causing the wall the fall over. However, the breaches that caused most of the damage to the city occurred due to "heaving". A term that refers to the weight of the water in the canal actually underming the wall and pushing the soil underneath the wall... causing the wall to move laterally. At these breaches, large berms of soil remained where there were none before. It is a classic symptom of a wall with no foundation. The sheet piles were only 15 feet deep. They make Cadillacs longer than that. They should have been, by the Corps own admission, between 40 and 60 feet deep. It was a system built on the cheap. It was pay now or pay later. They chose to pay later.

On a side note, upon the passage of the Flood Control Act of 1965, the federal government took over responsibility for levee building. Construction started in the late 60's on a "cat 3 system". However it was cat 3 in name only. The mandates for construction were based on wind speeds only... not the Saffir-Simpson scale. The system was actually only adequate for a weak cat 2. The reason for this is that in 1982, the Corp upped the wind speed guidelines to a true cat 3. More money was requested, but it was never appropriated. Therefore, the levees were actually never built as advertised. For the next 25-20 years, construction continued with no design changes. After 1982, the Corps of Engineers was STILL building for a weak Cat 2 even after they knew the error. Truly unbelievable.

Sorry for the long post.

[timNms]

Here's an article from today's Hattiesburg American newspaper (Hattiesburg, MS) 8-29-07.

http://hattiesburgamerican.com/apps/pbc ... /708290305

It would do us all good to remember how Katrina put all of us on the same level...whether rich or poor, we all had the same needs by this time (4:22 pm) on the 29th of August, 2005. I was very proud to be called a Mississippian in the days after Katrina when I saw neighbor helping neighbor...the way it is supposed to be everyday. We must never forget the lessons learned in the aftermath of that storm, and I'm not just talking about the obvious "GET OUTTA DOGDE IF ONE IS COMING THIS WAY" message! I'm talking about remembering that we must look out for one another in good times and in bad times.

[CrazyC83]

I thought some of the levees, particularly in the east end of New Orleans and in St. Bernard Parish, were overtopped?

[Gorky]

The first levee didn't break until late in the evening well after Katrina was into Mississippi. It did not break due to the initial storm surge. By the time the levee broke, the winds were below 40mph. I was in the office when it happened. People began going outside thinking we escaped with only minimal damage, then hours later the first levee broke. IF the levees were built to the standards they should've been built to, it would've never happened.

This video says otherwise.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=oZi1Mk2Njtg& ... ed&search=

I believe it was taken in Chalmette. The first shots at 8:40am show wind whipping around outside. At 9:59am water is halfway up the house with the wind still howling, and by 10:44am the water is to the roof. Certainly some of the levees may have failed later in the day, but there is clear evidence of either overtopping or failure of some levee's early whilst Katrina was still at her worst.

Another video from Chalmette is here, and whilst it doesn't have any timestamps, you get the idea from it how fast and quickly the water rose. Both videos are absolutely incredible. The sight of a car floating onto the lower aprt of his roof as he emerges through the hole they made to escape the rising water is downright scary

http://youtube.com/watch?v=DQkksAVBezc

Quote from the cameraman, after emerging from the loft and seeing the devastation.

"I've made a few bad mistakes in my life, but this has got to be the biggest mistake anybody can make"..."I made the mistake of trying to stay here"

[HollynLA]

I thought some of the levees, particularly in the east end of New Orleans and in St. Bernard Parish, were overtopped?

That is correct. Also, Plaquemines parish in Louisiana is where Katrina made it's first landfall and they had about a 25' surge and it had nothing to do with levee breaches. It seems that some people are under the impression that the only problem for Louisiana was the failed levees in New Orleans. That is completely false. There are many other towns, parishes, and communities that were affected like Washington parish, St.Tammany parish, Plaquemines parish, St. Bernard parish and almost the entire Mississippi Gulf Coast. Louisiana had far more problems than just what you see in New Orleans.

[timNms]

I thought some of the levees, particularly in the east end of New Orleans and in St. Bernard Parish, were overtopped?

That is correct. Also, Plaquemines parish in Louisiana is where Katrina made it's first landfall and they had about a 25' surge and it had nothing to do with levee breaches. It seems that some people are under the impression that the only problem for Louisiana was the failed levees in New Orleans. That is completely false. There are many other towns, parishes, and communities that were affected like Washington parish, St.Tammany parish, Plaquemines parish, St. Bernard parish and almost the entire Mississippi Gulf Coast. Louisiana had far more problems than just what you see in New Orleans.

Holly, you are correct. There were so many other places that were affected by Katrina. The entire MS gulf coast was wiped clean. I'm sure Plaquemines parish looked very similar to the MS coast, although I have not had the opportunity to see any pictures of it. For the most part, we only heard about New Orleans and the levee problems. (not to take anything away from that situation)

[angelwing]

2 web sites forwarded to me in tribute (If they were posted prior I'm sorry):

http://www.gmagic.com/katrina/

http://www.katrinatribute.info/

[TSmith274]

I thought some of the levees, particularly in the east end of New Orleans and in St. Bernard Parish, were overtopped?

That is correct. Also, Plaquemines parish in Louisiana is where Katrina made it's first landfall and they had about a 25' surge and it had nothing to do with levee breaches. It seems that some people are under the impression that the only problem for Louisiana was the failed levees in New Orleans. That is completely false. There are many other towns, parishes, and communities that were affected like Washington parish, St.Tammany parish, Plaquemines parish, St. Bernard parish and almost the entire Mississippi Gulf Coast. Louisiana had far more problems than just what you see in New Orleans.

Coming from someone who owns a house in Buras, La in Plaquemines Parish, and have many friends down there... I am aware of that. However, I was responding to Derek who mentioned "Cities" along the coast. Levees in N.O. East, St. Bernard and Plaquemines were indeed overtopped. But the Corps neglected to build scour protection. The river levees from Port Sulphur, La all the way to Boothville were indeed overtopped and were almost completely collapsed along that distance. Scour protection would have prevented the vast majority of those failures in Plaquemines. St. Bernard had mostly earthen levees that were obliterated by the surge coming up the MRGO... an ill-advised navigation canal pushed and constructed by none other than the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers. They have moved to close it.

This stuff is not something that I relish in. As a Civil Engineering student myself, I take no pride in these revelations. I just feel that it is important to set the record straight. We need to learn from the past, not hide from it. We can and will do better. This is the reason that, upon graduation in the Spring, I will hopefully land a job with the Corp... to improve it, and to ensure that we learn from past mistakes.

We'll never forget the small towns and communities that suffered. There are lessons to be learned there as well. Indeed, it is about much more than just New Orleans, and I understand that.

[Ptarmigan]

It's been two years since Katrina and it's hard for me not to think about those people and the area affected by Hurricane Katrina. Gulfport and Biloxi are leveled and New Orleans and St. Bernard Parish are flooded. It's really hard for me to get those images of the disaster out of my head and I am not even from the affected area.

[Category 5]

It's been two years since Katrina and it's hard for me not to think about those people and the area affected by Hurricane Katrina. Gulfport and Biloxi are leveled and New Orleans and St. Bernard Parish are flooded. It's really hard for me to get those images of the disaster out of my head and I am not even from the affected area.

You're not alone.

Katrina was one of those things that effected everybody, whether they know it or not.

[Tampa Bay Hurricane]

my prayers and compassion goes out to everyone who suffered
in these major hurricanes. And I hope and pray that one day
we can build more protective structures that save lives and homes...

[FritzPaul]

The first levee didn't break until late in the evening well after Katrina was into Mississippi. It did not break due to the initial storm surge. By the time the levee broke, the winds were below 40mph. I was in the office when it happened. People began going outside thinking we escaped with only minimal damage, then hours later the first levee broke. IF the levees were built to the standards they should've been built to, it would've never happened.

I lived in New Orleans East (9 houses off Chef Hwy [Hwy 90] between Crowder and Read Blvd), and water started to enter my house @ 8:00am Monday from the topping of the Intercostal WtWy levee because of the surge of water of the combined effects of the MRGO (Mississippi River Gulf Outlet) merging with the Intercostal and then all this water headed toward the Industrial Canal. It is impossible for 2 deep waterways to merge into 1 during a severe storm surge. Twice the water into the same canal can only lead to levee failure or over topping. Thank God the later is what happened, or I don't even want to think what could have happened if the North side of the levee on Intercoastal WtWy would have failed.

As for the 17th street levee failure, I thought I remebered some firemen who filmed the first failure on this canal @ 10:00am Monday morning.

Paul

PS If this is to controversial, the mods can remove this last statement!

I firmly believe the flooding of my beloved New Orleans was not a Katrina thing, but a case of the worst engineering disaster in the history of America (Thanks Corps of Engineers < sarcasm)

[CoCo2]

Well I am from Plaquemines Parish and lost everything. I had to cool down from posting on 8/29/07 because Plaquemines parish has been forgotten, I'm pissed off by all the media attention to the 9th Ward and New Orleans. People of the world, Katrina didn't just happened to New Orleans or the 9th Ward or New Orleans East. Katrina destroyed lower Plaquemines Parish. Katrina destroyed St. Bernard Parish, parts of St. Tammany Parish, Lakeview, Old Metaire in Jefferson Parish, the Mississippi Gulf Coast. Poor people, middle income people AND upper income people were all affected by Hurricane Katrina. She did not discriminate, that is your story. And the reality, New Orleans outside of the tourist area, was a very high crime, dangerous and corrupt place before Hurricane Katrina. It is 100 times worst now.

[MSRobi911]

CoCo2

I just watched what I had taped from WLOX in Biloxi on the anniversary and cried like a baby. I, too, am one that lost all my "stuff" but my family still have our lives, so we are thankful for that. I know all you hear is NO, Biloxi, Gulfport, Pass Christian. Pascagoula was hit pretty hard.

And yes my life has changed, I became ill while living in the FEMA trailer and eventually had to quit work (well I was told I was out of Family Leave..haha) anyway so my life has really changed. But we are still here and kicking and will be for as long as we can.

We can't rebuild because of "lawsuit pending" but there is also the consideration of the cost of insurance where our house was before. One lady down the street about 1/2 mile said her homeowners had dropped her and they had to go into the "wind pool" she just got her premium bill about a month ago...to the tune of $7,000.00 a year, this doesn't count, home owners, flood, taxes....etc............ that is why there is not a lot of growth on the MS Gulf Coast....Mom and Pop stores can't afford the "wind pool" insurance so they can't afford to rebuild.

The Mississippi Coast will survive, we will forever be changed, but we will survive!

Mary

[HarlequinBoy]

I was in Ocean Springs visiting my cousin about 2 weeks ago and wasn't overly impressed by the recovery (at least in their location), BUT I do know everyone down there is trying extremely hard and are up against enormous barriers. I think the Mississippi government has (and maybe still is.. I haven't paid much attention lately) done a pretty good job.. at least decent. I mean in the months afterwards I didn't hear a lot of bad things about our state government regarding Katrina.

I really hope the MGC makes as big of a comeback as possible. IMO, before Katrina it was one of the, if not THE, crown jewel of Mississippi and one of the better parts of the state. I live in the NW part where there's a lot of growth due to the casino resorts in Tunica and the Memphis metro rapidly expanding southward into Desoto County, but it still to me doesn't compare to down there. Several of my family members who left due to Katrina never went back, and say they never will.. I understand where they're coming from, but I'm also glad that most of my family decided to try again down there. It's a personal choice and I don't think there is a right or wrong on this one.