Homosexuals will be dancing in the streets in Texas

[OtherHD]

Brenda, WELL SAID!!! It amazes me that in this day and age, we still have people that are so closed-minded in America. As far as "protecting the children" goes, what exactly are we protecting them from? Do gays hurt people? Do they molest people? I'm sure there are a few that do, just as there are a few heterosexuals that do the same. Should we protect the children from heteros? No, we should protect the children from bigotry and stop sheltering them and stop having them pretend that homosexuality doesn't exist.

[j]

Fine..then it's time to start teaching them in school. We can integrate it right into the the Sex Education classes, where it belongs ...right? Then. on the way out of the classroom, we can hand them a package of condoms and let them go practice what we've taught them. "Remember children..Safe Sex. Tomorrow we will have oral exam's on today's lesson. If you don't have a partner, we can find you one. No Suzy...it doesn't matter if your partner is Betsy. This is an educational lesson. Love and learn at the same time. Remember children..this is about love and your feelings. Go home and express them as we have taught you".


Go ahead...call me close minded if you want. I do not think there is a child out there that doesn't know homosexuals exist. ..but does that mean we have to accept it, and tell our children that it's ok?

I'm sorry, but I've been raised to believe its NOT ok, thank God, because I couldn't stand the thought of sleeping next to some smelly hairy man every night.

[WidreMann]

Have fun explaing to them that its ok for men to marry men and for woman to marry woman, and have babies with purchased sperm. Have a blast stirring your child in the right direction. Or.....just forget about having children, marry a man and let somebody else worry about it.

I think I will. I didn't have a problem learning about it, nor did any of my friends or indeed a lot of people I know. By the way, they are all straight and otherwise non-deviant, just like myself.

And The Bible, a product of man, perhaps inspired by the divine but itself is no divine product. The fear of homosexuality is clearly a human issue - fear of outsiders. The fear of outsiders or people different than "us" is one of the basic features of human nature, whether or not the fear is justified. We see this kind of fear/hatred all throughout the Bible: in the OT where God is a tribal war god who directs his people to smite all the other inferior peoples of the area, and perhaps to some degree in the NT with the idea that all the heathens must be converted. Interestingly enough, or maybe not as I imagine, if you are still reading, you don't particularly care what I have to say, but anyway, nearly every culture has a similar view of itself. One of the great things about the past several centuries is that some of us at least have been able to move past that instinct and to accept outsiders (which is different from accepting criminals). I see, though, that a great many still have not moved forward.

[WidreMann]

but does that mean we have to accept it, and tell our children that it's ok?

But what if we do say it's okay? What then? Let's get to the heart of your problem with homosexuality. I mean if you just don't find it appealing, fine, I don't either. I also don't like shrimp. But I'm not going to go on a crusade against shrimp eaters just because I find it personally disgusting.

And please don't throw God or the Bible at me. The reason is because that is a cop-out of the highest degree.

[Lindaloo]

Quoting from the bible widreman is not a cop out. And your opinion of it being "a product" is nothing but a cop out.

Mamadude... if one believes that homosexuality is wrong in no way proves someone being close minded! I for one believe it is wrong, therefore I do not want my children learning that it is okay to be that way. You are not born that way it is something that you experiment with and like.

In this society we try to teach our children right from wrong. Do I raise my children to hate them? NO. Do I teach my children that gays are no good? NO. Do I teach my children to snob them because of their sexuality? NO. Do I teach my children that it is wrong? YOU BET!!

[wx247]

J... I respect you immensely and think that you are very intelligent, but the fact is that if you feel that homosexuality is wrong then you can teach your children that. That is fine by me. I am a Christian as well, but there is a difference in not believing it is right and wanting to get rid of it as well and forcing your beliefs on others.

I am pro-life (shock to many of you probably I am sure) yet that doesn't give me the right to tell someone else what to do with their baby, it doesn't mean I should blow up abortion clinics, and it certainly doesn't mean I should ostracize them because of what they do.

If I don't agree with Catholics, should I hate Catholics? If I don't believe in God, should I hate those that do? If I don't like people who drink, should I hate them and call them names? If I don't agree with Baptists, should I spit at them and call them profanities? If I don't agree with homosexuality, should I ostracize and hate those who are? The answer to each of those questions is a resounding no.

[j]

Wow we agree on something!....we don't find it appealing.

Lets say for talking purposes, things were reversed. Heterosexuals were the minority, and gays were the majority. Let's say it happened overnight...a sort of sexual revolution of sorts fueled by the Liberal ideology you support. Would you then mount a crusade against the gays in the interest of saving the human species from extinction, or just hang in there and hope that the rate of death amongst homosexuals surpassed the rate of birth of heterosexuals?

I know you will say that's absurd, and we will agree for the 2nd time.

[wx247]

And Lindaloo... having had a friend deal with his sexuality in the last couple of years I disagree with the fact that you choose to be gay. If you could see the pain and agony this kid has been through you would understand. I am sure he would much rather not have the feelings he has had. He would rather be "normal" as many like to say.

My friend has been through hell and back and believe it wasn't because he saw it on tv and thought it would be cool to try. I would discuss further but I don't want to delve into his private life.

I am not trying to be rude, but it hurts me for people to assume that it is a choice. It may be a choice to act on those feelings and have sex, but it isn't a choice to have those feelings in the first place.

[WidreMann]

And your opinion of it being "a product" is nothing but a cop out.

No, it's utterly true. And moreover, if the Bible is really so valid for life, then anything said in the Bible should be able to be argued and reasoned without the Bible, in much the same way that anything in Newton's Principia Mathematica should be able to be reasoned and argued without using that book, which happens to be the case. Additionally, it is a product of man. It is written in human language, which is anything but something you would use for divine information transmission. It has contradictions, changes in philosophy and scientifically incorrect information. On top of that, it is very similar to the cultural traditions of many other cultures on this planet. In other words, it's just another cultural mythology that happened to get taken up, at least in recent history, by the most powerful civilizations on the planet. This was not the case 2000 years ago, when the Roman Empire, the Chinese nation and rising states in the Americas were the powers of the planet and none of them were Judeo-Christian. The Jews were scattered and weak. And I would venture that the only reason Christianity took hold so well was because it was like an opportunistic infection - with the fall of the Roman Empire there was a vacuum that could easily be filled by religious unity provided by Christianity. Additionally (yes, another additionally), there are a huge number of denominations and interpretations. If there were a correct answer that were undeniably true, then there is absolutely no reason that there should be so many differing interpretations. There shouldn't be different religions at all. Either there is a failure to communicate by God, or there really is no absolute religious truth in the first place. Either way, we don't have it - nobody does - and neither does the Bible.

[wx247]

Wow... j I don't think I would do either. I think I would find all the women I could and start having babies.

[Lindaloo]

I am humbled by your story wx247. But I must say that statistics do not lie.

Went to Bourbon Street and found many, many cross dressers. Of all of them I spoke with they told me that they chose to be the way they are. No one forces them to be that way. When one feels that way, sometimes it is VERY hard to deal with like what your friend had to go through. I say to you and your friend, be the way you want to be.

[wx247]

Let's not stray from the topic and turn this into a religious debate... save that for another topic. What I mean is talking about whether bible is a cop out or not. The argument can be made from both sides from a Christian or a non-Christian.

[wx247]

LOL Lindaloo.

There is a difference between cross dressers and gay men. In fact, many cross dressers classify themselves as "straight". Cross dressers do do that as a choice, but being gay in the truest sense of the word is a different story.

My friend has told me he will never act upon his feelings, but he has told me several times (in tears many of them) that he can't help what he feels and that people just don't understand. They are too quick to call him a "fine man" or "perv" than understand.

[Lindaloo]

Let's not stray from the topic and turn this into a religious debate... save that for another topic. What I mean is talking about whether bible is a cop out or not. The argument can be made from both sides from a Christian or a non-Christian.

Oh let me elaborate on that a bit... these cross dressers were gay men. Sorry.

[wx247]

Let's not stray from the topic and turn this into a religious debate... save that for another topic. What I mean is talking about whether bible is a cop out or not. The argument can be made from both sides from a Christian or a non-Christian.

That was great coming from a Christian wx247.

Oh let me elaborate on that a bit... these cross dressers were gay men. Sorry.

Point taken Linda. Let me clarify a little.. when I was referring to the argument being made from both sides... I was referring to homosexuality, not the bible.

[WidreMann]

Lets say for talking purposes, things were reversed. Heterosexuals were the minority, and gays were the majority. Let's say it happened overnight...a sort of sexual revolution of sorts fueled by the Liberal ideology you support.

Right, because I support everyone becoming gay. Don't you find it the least bit interesting that there have been homosexuals at least as long as there has been civilization but they have not overwhelmed the heterosexual population? And moreover, since homosexuality is very much likely caused by hormones, it's not really something that's going to spread by liberal ideologies. But anyways, go on...

Would you then mount a crusade against the gays in the interest of saving the human species from extinction, or just hang in there and hope that the rate of death amongst homosexuals surpassed the rate of birth of heterosexuals?

This solution is so ridiculous it's not even worth arguing what I would do. It's like saying, what would you do if gravity were reversed and objects were repelled from the earth instead of attracted to it. It's a ridiculous proposition that only serves to obscure the issue (a "red herring" if you will) instead of clarifying it. And the human race is hardly in dire straights in terms of procreation. Another thing to consider is left-handedness. There have always been left-handed people - it's not a choice. Yet the majority of people remain right-handed. There's no problem there, so why should there be one with homosexuals?

[j]

Let's not stray from the topic and turn this into a religious debate... save that for another topic. What I mean is talking about whether bible is a cop out or not. The argument can be made from both sides from a Christian or a non-Christian.

Oh let me elaborate on that a bit... these cross dressers were gay men. Sorry.

Now you know wx was referrring to that sector that just likes to wear frilly clothes and make up because it makes them feel sexy. They are definitely a minority amongst the minority. But I don't want them around my kids either!!!

Born gay or develope into a gay --- I'm open for debate on this but I think the overwhelming majority choose this lifestyle. I have known a few gay men (not by choice mind you, but by indirect association). Every single one that I have known, or known of, supports the theory that they chose the lifestyle. Now I'm certainly not a good barometer for this, since I haven't "crossed" paths with that many...but I have seen with my eyes and listened with my ears, and I draw my conclusions accordingly.

[wx247]

Oh... I am sure there are those that choose it. I don't disagree with that. Just like those who were born geniuses and those who have to work for it.

**I am not concluding these 2 are related in anyway.**

[Lindaloo]

Like Widreman wx247? lol.

[j]

Right Widremann..the human race is not in dire straights in regards to procreation. However, and try to argue your way out of this one.....there are more gays today than yesterday, and there will be more tomorrow than today. Are you going to tell me they have all been in the closet for the last 2000 years? The lifestyle is being openly accepted and those who might have never considered it, now are led to believe that its cool, its what everybody is doing...and hey...you can ease into it with a little bi-sexualitly...that way you have nothing to lose.

It's just my lonely opinion, but I fear for the "fringe" child, that is bombarded dailey with images and ideas that are contrary to what their parents have tried to teach them. Experimentation with same sex is promoted, and they are vulnerable. You don't have kids (I am assuming) so you are at a disadvantage to argue this point. But go ahead..as I'm sure you will.