TD INGRID: Discussions & Images - Last Advisory

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richartm
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Re: Trop Dep EIGHT: Discussions & Images-5 PM EDT at page 87

#1901 Postby richartm » Thu Sep 13, 2007 7:57 pm

wxman57 wrote:Here are a couple of reasons why TD 8 doesn't have much of a future the Saturday and Sunday 200mb wind forecasts. I think it may already have been a TS last night, and possibly will be again tomorrow, but its life is limited by what lies ahead. You can look at current shear maps but they don't tell the whole story. Let's look farther ahead to Saturday and Sunday and see where TD 8 / Ingrid is heading.

I plotted the 18Z GFS 200mb wind barbs (pink) with wind speeds (yellow) and streamlines (blue). On the chart, I indicated the location of upper lows and TD 8. I also indicated the jet core around the perimeter of the lows in advance of TD 8 (white arrows). As you can see, TD 8's time may be quite limited. By the time it nears 55W and is north of 15N it'll be running into increasingly strong westerly wind shear. So if it's going to develop, it needs to do so fairly soon.

Hopefully it’ll be gone in the next 24-36 hours. It doesn’t stand much of a chance of making it across the Caribbean Sea or threatening the east U.S. coast with that pattern.

Image

Image



Another interruption by a Pro-Met providing analysis backed by data, logic, experience and education.

Please ignore and return to the Katrina/ Andrew analogies immediately.

Thank you.
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Re: Trop Dep EIGHT: Discussions & Images-5 PM EDT at page 87

#1902 Postby wxman57 » Thu Sep 13, 2007 7:58 pm

Hey, I'm all for the upgrade to Ingrid. An early demise would be fine, though. Remember, I bet my boss lunch that we'd get 5 named tropical cyclones in September. Ingrid would make 4 with over half a month to go! ;-)
Last edited by wxman57 on Thu Sep 13, 2007 7:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#1903 Postby Tampa Bay Hurricane » Thu Sep 13, 2007 7:58 pm

thank you wxman57 for that information.

Now I understand better why the models forecasted the shear 8-)

Yes it is certainly possible that shear may keep td 8 weak
in accordance with the NHC forecast.

I am sometimes conflicted between NHC and
accuweather.

Accuweather does use scientific back up,
and I respect them for that.

Also for the same reason I have a great respect for
the NHC.
Last edited by Tampa Bay Hurricane on Thu Sep 13, 2007 8:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Trop Dep EIGHT: Discussions & Images-5 PM EDT at page 87

#1904 Postby cycloneye » Thu Sep 13, 2007 8:00 pm

WHXX01 KWBC 140059
CHGHUR
TROPICAL CYCLONE GUIDANCE MESSAGE
NWS TPC/NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER MIAMI FL
0059 UTC FRI SEP 14 2007

DISCLAIMER...NUMERICAL MODELS ARE SUBJECT TO LARGE ERRORS.
PLEASE REFER TO NHC OFFICIAL FORECASTS FOR TROPICAL CYCLONE
AND SUBTROPICAL CYCLONE INFORMATION.

ATLANTIC OBJECTIVE AIDS FOR

TROPICAL CYCLONE INGRID (AL082007) 20070914 0000 UTC

...00 HRS... ...12 HRS... ...24 HRS. .. ...36 HRS...
070914 0000 070914 1200 070915 0000 070915 1200

LAT LON LAT LON LAT LON LAT LON
BAMS 14.6N 48.5W 15.3N 49.7W 16.0N 50.9W 16.8N 52.2W
BAMD 14.6N 48.5W 15.1N 49.3W 15.9N 49.9W 16.9N 50.6W
BAMM 14.6N 48.5W 15.2N 49.5W 16.0N 50.3W 16.7N 51.2W
LBAR 14.6N 48.5W 15.4N 49.5W 16.5N 50.6W 17.6N 52.2W
SHIP 35KTS 37KTS 39KTS 41KTS
DSHP 35KTS 37KTS 39KTS 41KTS

...48 HRS... ...72 HRS... ...96 HRS. .. ..120 HRS...
070916 0000 070917 0000 070918 0000 070919 0000

LAT LON LAT LON LAT LON LAT LON
BAMS 17.4N 53.5W 18.8N 56.3W 20.5N 59.1W 22.4N 61.4W
BAMD 17.9N 51.2W 20.2N 52.1W 22.9N 52.0W 26.3N 49.1W
BAMM 17.5N 52.1W 18.8N 53.9W 20.6N 55.7W 22.7N 56.7W
LBAR 18.8N 53.9W 21.0N 57.8W 24.0N 61.4W 26.9N 63.6W
SHIP 42KTS 43KTS 41KTS 44KTS
DSHP 42KTS 43KTS 41KTS 44KTS

...INITIAL CONDITIONS...
LATCUR = 14.6N LONCUR = 48.5W DIRCUR = 300DEG SPDCUR = 5KT
LATM12 = 14.0N LONM12 = 47.6W DIRM12 = 297DEG SPDM12 = 5KT
LATM24 = 13.5N LONM24 = 46.1W
WNDCUR = 35KT RMAXWD = 40NM WNDM12 = 35KT
CENPRS = 1005MB OUTPRS = 1012MB OUTRAD = 150NM SDEPTH = M
RD34NE = 45NM RD34SE = 45NM RD34SW = 0NM RD34NW = 45NM

HELLO INGRID!
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Re: Trop Dep EIGHT: Discussions & Images-5 PM EDT at page 87

#1905 Postby BigA » Thu Sep 13, 2007 8:01 pm

I just can't see this thing becoming a major hurricane at this stage due to the shear, but according to the Wunderground shear maps that I have been looking at, the shear looks damaging, but not deadly

http://www.wunderground.com/data/640x480/atlm_shear.gif (15-22kt shear north of the Lesser Antilles)

I honestly dont know about the accuracy of this map.
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Re: Trop Dep EIGHT: Discussions & Images-5 PM EDT at page 87

#1906 Postby Tampa Bay Hurricane » Thu Sep 13, 2007 8:01 pm

Yet another storm we have on the 2007 list:

Now we have had: 9 named storms
Hurricanes: 3
Major Hurricanes: 2

So far a very active season.
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Re: Trop Dep EIGHT: Discussions & Images-5 PM EDT at page 87

#1907 Postby SapphireSea » Thu Sep 13, 2007 8:02 pm

Whew, looked at some sat pics and I will have to agree with the pro mets on this one. Looks very hostile all around. TD8 is cowering in the area of lowest shear right now. I think however that upper low near the bahamas is going to clear out sooner than expected, which will allow this maybe to intensify for a while longer. That second trough that will dig down however will finish the job on it's predicted track. If it goes to the carribean, the screaming shear will do it.
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Re: Trop Dep EIGHT: Discussions & Images-5 PM EDT at page 87

#1908 Postby Brent » Thu Sep 13, 2007 8:04 pm

Image

It's also Ingrid at NRL!
Last edited by Brent on Thu Sep 13, 2007 8:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Trop Dep EIGHT: Discussions & Images-5 PM EDT at page 87

#1909 Postby Ed Mahmoud » Thu Sep 13, 2007 8:05 pm

TheShrimper wrote:Could a hurricane form over my hot tub? Just wondering, the same parameters are met.



No, for the same reason that the myth about toilet rotation always being a certain direction in our hemisphere isn't always correct. Over the scale involved, the Coriolis Force isn't significant enough to guarantee rotation.

Note, that even though most tornadoes rotate cyclonically, there are numerous documented cases of anticyclonic rotation in tornadoes, and a tornado is bigger than your hot tub.

Well, obviously I mean CW vs CCW, as even an anticylonic rotating tornado is a microscale cyclone, I suppose.
Last edited by Ed Mahmoud on Thu Sep 13, 2007 8:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Trop Dep EIGHT: Discussions & Images-5 PM EDT at page 87

#1910 Postby cycloneye » Thu Sep 13, 2007 8:05 pm

http://www.nrlmry.navy.mil/tc_pages/tc_home.html

More confirmation we have Ingrid.
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Re: Trop Dep EIGHT: Discussions & Images-5 PM EDT at page 87

#1911 Postby canegrl04 » Thu Sep 13, 2007 8:05 pm

BigA wrote:I just can't see this thing becoming a major hurricane at this stage due to the shear, but according to the Wunderground shear maps that I have been looking at, the shear looks damaging, but not deadly

http://www.wunderground.com/data/640x480/atlm_shear.gif (15-22kt shear north of the Lesser Antilles)

I honestly dont know about the accuracy of this map.

If Ingrid comes out of the shear as a TD,she has excellent chance to become a major given the warm SSTs near the Gulf and in it.Look at how quickly Felix and Humberto grew
Last edited by canegrl04 on Thu Sep 13, 2007 8:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#1912 Postby RL3AO » Thu Sep 13, 2007 8:06 pm

It looks like we have it. 2 hours until advisory.
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Re: Trop Dep EIGHT: Discussions & Images-5 PM EDT at page 87

#1913 Postby hial2 » Thu Sep 13, 2007 8:07 pm

Though I defer to WXMAN57 knowledge and experience,I'm willing to bet that he'd agree that the forecast map he showed is not a done deal...
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Re: Trop Dep EIGHT: Discussions & Images-9 PM EDT at page 96

#1914 Postby cycloneye » Thu Sep 13, 2007 8:09 pm

Storm2ks policy is to wait for the official word from NHC about an upgrade of a system.Until then the title of thread remains as TD Eight.Once the 11 PM advisory comes,the title will change to Tropical Storm Ingrid.
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Re: Trop Dep EIGHT: Discussions & Images-9 PM EDT at page 96

#1915 Postby gerrit » Thu Sep 13, 2007 8:13 pm

OK somebody at NHC please issue an extra advisory especially for everybody here at Storm 2k who wants TD8 to be TS Ingrid so they can calm down... Geeez!
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Re: Trop Dep EIGHT: Discussions & Images-5 PM EDT at page 87

#1916 Postby wxman57 » Thu Sep 13, 2007 8:15 pm

hial2 wrote:Though I defer to WXMAN57 knowledge and experience,I'm willing to bet that he'd agree that the forecast map he showed is not a done deal...


You're wise not to trust the GFS upper air forecast as-is. However, the ECMWF, Canadian, and NOGAPS show the same giant TUTT in the path of Ingrid. NOGAPS develops Ingrid then turns it north then northeast around 52-55W while weakening it. Canadian develops Ingrid and plows it through the TUTT along with 4 other TCs next to it. ;-)

I'll wager NHC will show little or no strengthening at 10pm CDT for the next 24-48 hours then weakening back to TD.

Time for bed. I get to sleep past 4:30am tomorrow. Last night I got a call at 1:30am about the hurricane upgrade. Messed up my 4 hours of sleep.
Last edited by wxman57 on Thu Sep 13, 2007 8:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Trop Dep EIGHT: Discussions & Images-5 PM EDT at page 87

#1917 Postby SapphireSea » Thu Sep 13, 2007 8:15 pm

canegrl04 wrote:
BigA wrote:I just can't see this thing becoming a major hurricane at this stage due to the shear, but according to the Wunderground shear maps that I have been looking at, the shear looks damaging, but not deadly

http://www.wunderground.com/data/640x480/atlm_shear.gif (15-22kt shear north of the Lesser Antilles)

I honestly dont know about the accuracy of this map.

If Ingrid comes out of the shear as a TD,she has excellent chance to become a major given the warm SSTs near the Gulf and in it.Look at how quickly Felix and Humberto grew


Those were storms who were in the right place at the right time. Shear was not too bad. I reckon Humberto grew as fast as he did, because the LLC was already very well structured, and needed some instability to fire up convection, it was destined to RI. TD8 or Ingrid will need to fight off shear, still with an elongated and constantly decoupled LLC/MLC. If she hits 20kt shear in that state. It's deadly for any system.
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Re: Trop Dep EIGHT: Discussions & Images-5 PM EDT at page 87

#1918 Postby Ptarmigan » Thu Sep 13, 2007 8:17 pm

wxman57 wrote:
You're wise not to trust the GFS upper air forecast as-is. However, the ECMWF, Canadian, and NOGAPS show the same giant TUTT in the path of Ingrid. NOGAPS develops Ingrid then turns it north then northeast around 52-55W while weakening it. Canadian develops Ingrid and plows it through the TUTT along with 3 other TCs next to it. ;-)

I'll wager NHC will show little or no strengthening at 10pm CDT for the next 24-48 hours then weakening back to TD.

Time for bed. I get to sleep past 4:30am tomorrow. Last night I got a call at 1:30am about the hurricane upgrade. Messed up my 4 hours of sleep.


GFS seemed to be bullish with cool fronts coming to Southeast Texas.
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Re: Trop Dep EIGHT: Discussions & Images-5 PM EDT at page 87

#1919 Postby chrisnnavarre » Thu Sep 13, 2007 8:17 pm

hial2 wrote:Though I defer to WXMAN57 knowledge and experience,I'm willing to bet that he'd agree that the forecast map he showed is not a done deal...


I think several others have posted earlier that the models have not done a very good job with predicted shear this year. Some shear over this storm would be bad I'm assuming because it will keep it weak enough, (i.e. not able to totally stack) to continue on a more westward track. I gets stuck under that ridge and CONUS could definently be threatened. I'm also concerned about the possiblity that something could spin up in the SW Carribean as well because some models are hinting now at that. If both of these situations pan out then living here on the Panhandle of Florida would sort of remind me of being caught between bases during a double play.
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Re: Trop Dep EIGHT: Discussions & Images-9 PM EDT at page 96

#1920 Postby jhamps10 » Thu Sep 13, 2007 8:21 pm

Image

latest.
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